If this story doesnt cause massive protests nothing will

[wheel_nut]

Carryfast:
Firstly all the issues of taxation on the road transport industry are relevant to the topic and the idea that the costs incurred by the industry by such taxation can always be passed on to the customer is a flawed one.

In the real world what actually happens is that the countries with the lowest taxation are the countries which end up with most of the transport industries based there as any firm would be stupid not to and the rest of us just try to do the job at the lowest price by not passing on the taxation costs which just means that in the end the firm inevitably runs into financial deficit on the balance sheet because taxation exceeds the true running costs.

At which point what usually happens is that another small operator then tries to make a go of it by jumping into the shoes of the one who’s just gone under and we get the typical revolving door scenario of one new operator starts up as another one goes under and they obviously now seem intent on increasing the tax burden even higher on a wider basis across europe based on the British idea of taxing trucks off the road so that the big rail freight interests can grab more of the work.

Exactly. I agree with all that except the railways will never replace the haulage industry, the post office proved that when they moved all their transport to the roads.

As for the countries with the lowest taxation getting the lions share, that is already the case, look how many EU hauliers are setting up shop in Luxembourg as you said in another post they have one of the lowest VAT rates.

Look at France and the system they used on their registration plates. 33 means the driver could be ■■■■■■ and the vehicle comes from Bordeaux. Numbers; 75, 91,92,93,94 are from the Paris conurbation, but just look how many trucks are registered as 51 from the Marne Region. Marne is the cheapest place in France to register a lorry.

[carryfast]

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:
Where’s the EU rules which say that you can’t pull British trailers with a unit registered in another member state and it’s obvious that under those regs you would’nt register and tax more trailers than units unless you could pull two or three at once as a roadtrain and what is the combined taxation for a unit and trailer in those member states which tax both seperately ?.In addition to duty and VAT on fuel rates differences and resulting VAT rates charged to the end customer which all combine with lower wage rates in states with a lower cost of living to obviously make it more economic to base trucks in most other states but Britain or the papers here would be full of continental driving vacancies which plainly is’nt the case.

Of course you can pull a British trailer with a foreign unit, exactly the same as you can pull a foreign trailer with a British unit, it doesn’t have to be an EU vehicle as was demonstrated by the amount of people doing the Passau trunk with Bulgarian trailers before they joined the EU. A Dutch or Belgium haulier pulling a British trailer will put his own unit number on the trailer. A Dutch or Belgium haulier pulling a French or German trailer doesn’t need to do that.

Forget you childhood dreams of driving a big truck with 2 or 3 trailers in the UK, as I mentioned the ratio of units and semi trailers, a typical owner driver will have 2 trailers, possibly 3, a large company like DHL, Wincanton or TDG have probably got a similar amount utilised as stand trailers, being maintained or ready loaded in a customers premises to be called off. I hope I get the answer to your question too about the combined cost, not only of the kfz steuer, tax or whatever it is called in Spain. This may give you some clues for Germany.

kfz-steuer.de/

Like the merchant navy used flags of convenience to take advantage of lower costs, then the transport industry will follow suit, as we all want a bargain from the supermarkets, unfortunately that means we may have to buy our baked beans from Polgary or Hungland.

The jobs are being advertised, foreign companies like Nedexco, Wolter Koops, Norbert Dentressangle, H&S, Van Den Bosch, Harry Vos, DFDS and others often have vacancies advertised either through the agency or on the jobsites

Anyway back on track now,

Road pricing–world experience

The first city in the world to implement road pricing was Singapore in 1975. Motorists entering the central business district had to buy and display a supplementary paper license; enforcement was by manual inspection. Traffic dropped by 44% and only grew slowly again as the city developed. In 1997, this system was replaced by an electronic one, with tolls varying according to the level of congestion and motorists charged every time they entered the central area. A further 10-15% reduction in traffic resulted.

Within Europe, Bergen implemented a cordon charge for entering the central area in 1986, and Oslo and a number of smaller Norwegian cities followed suit. But the charges were low and mainly intended to raise money for investment in transport infrastructure.

The subsequent London and Stockholm schemes were designed primarily to cut congestion. The London congestion charge was introduced in 2003. Traffic was reduced by 18% and congestion by 30%. Traffic levels in London are still reduced but congestion has returned to pre-charge levels. Stockholm implemented a system in 2006 designed to relieve congestion as well as raising money and achieved a 20% reduction in traffic. Implemented as a trial, it was made permanent following a narrow victory in a referendum amongst Stockholm residents.

A number of other countries have implemented schemes which might be regarded as a form of road pricing, including pricing for express lanes in the US, and goods vehicle charging systems in Switzerland, Austria and Germany. The Netherlands looks set to be the first country to implement comprehensive road pricing nationwide.

Source: Professor Chris Nash

ROAD PRICING IN THE NETHERLANDS

The Dutch Government is committed to introducing a national distance-based charge for all vehicles on all roads–generally referred to as the “price per kilometre” scheme. Assuming that it goes ahead, it will be the most comprehensive road pricing scheme in the world. Implementation will start with goods vehicles in 2011; and for passenger cars in 2012, to be completed by 2016. The charge will be offset by reductions in the existing purchase tax on new vehicles (which can be up to 45% of the list price, depending on the vehicle type). There is an overall commitment to revenue neutrality. Fuel duty–roughly at the same level as in the UK (see Table 2)–will not be affected. The scheme will use satellite GPS technology and each vehicle will be fitted with an on-board unit.

Firstly the London ‘congestion’ charge was never actually intended to cut congestion as it was brought in with the stated aim of ‘using the money generated’ to invest in London’s infrastructure projects which is just another way of saying that because Londoners don’t want to pay for the upkeep of that overdeveloped hell hole everyone who has to drive through the place or deliver anything there has to instead and if it had have been successful in doing what they said in cutting congestion,which it has’nt,that money for that stated aim would’nt have been there because no one with any sense would go into the place with a vehicle.So they knew that it was’nt a 'congestion charge when it was introduced and full marks to the American embassy for calling it what it is a tax and refusing to pay it.But what owner driver with any sense would want to tax 2 or 3 trailers in an EU state where trailers are taxed seperately when he could just do traction work for British firms with a unit based in the lowest tax friendly EU state.At least until they make it the same price per kilometer as the M6 toll throughout Europe that is at which point the LibDemCon dream of no European long distance road transport will finally be realised.

[wheel_nut]

You wont get any argument out of me about London, if folks want to live in the craphole, let them pay for it, not the rest of the civilised country

You also wont get any disagreement about traction only either, no tyres, no trailer brake relines, the sheet gets slashed, it only costs a phone call. As an owner driver I made more money from Panalpina and Elvex than I ever did renting or buying trailers. At the time I had a Crane Fruehauf tanker and a Dennison Tilt stood in the yard. I soon saw the error of my ways, the 4 wheel unit went in exchange for a 3 axle steer and the Tilt and Tanker just went

Forget the M6 toll, think of the Humber bridge tolls, £18.30 for about a mile to nowhere…

[carryfast]

Wheel Nut:
You wont get any argument out of me about London, if folks want to live in the craphole, let them pay for it, not the rest of the civilised country

You also wont get any disagreement about traction only either, no tyres, no trailer brake relines, the sheet gets slashed, it only costs a phone call. As an owner driver I made more money from Panalpina and Elvex than I ever did renting or buying trailers. At the time I had a Crane Fruehauf tanker and a Dennison Tilt stood in the yard. I soon saw the error of my ways, the 4 wheel unit went in exchange for a 3 axle steer and the Tilt and Tanker just went

Forget the M6 toll, think of the Humber bridge tolls, £18.30 for about a mile to nowhere…

Wheelnut It seems that we’re beginning to formulate a plan of the way to save the British road transport industry.But maybe we’ll agree to disagree when my idea would be a 6X4 yank conventional based in Luxembourg pulling British based trailers at cut throat rates on continental work and zb the rest of em and the lenghth limits.

[carryfast]

Wheel Nut:
You wont get any argument out of me about London, if folks want to live in the craphole, let them pay for it, not the rest of the civilised country

Forget the M6 toll, think of the Humber bridge tolls, £18.30 for about a mile to nowhere…

Going northbound definitely.That’s where those commie nutters in London got the idea from

[fuse]

I can not se e a problem haulage rates will be re structured to take in the user charge it will be clear to the customer that to transport his goods x miles an excess will be charged . I remember when the quarry charge was introduced £1.65 per tonne it was said it would be a disaster …what has happend they pay and that is £33 pounds tax per twenty tonne load of quarry stonne…dont worry

[carryfast]

fuse:
I can not se e a problem haulage rates will be re structured to take in the user charge it will be clear to the customer that to transport his goods x miles an excess will be charged . I remember when the quarry charge was introduced £1.65 per tonne it was said it would be a disaster …what has happend they pay and that is £33 pounds tax per twenty tonne load of quarry stonne…dont worry

Yeah right quarry stone is’nt quite the same thing as european long distance haulage.

[vascoingles]

Wheel Nut:
Before this thread veers too far off course, I want to pick the brains of several of you, in particular, Vascoingles, Caledonian Dream, Brit Pete or Inselaffe, Homo Faber and any random French Person, Robbies Dad if he is still around and the Austrian bloke.

How much does it cost to “tax” to license or operate a registered artic trailer on the roads of Spain, Holland, Germany, Czech, Hungary, France, Belgium or Austria?

Let me explain my thinking, According to most, we get the sticky end of a muddy stick. So in this free for all of Europe that we all know costs less to license an artic unit.

BUT, here is the crux, each trailer from the countries listed have to be registered and presumably taxed, for a reasonable ratio of units to trailers let us say we have 3 trailers to every unit.

I can only think of one country in the EU who doesn’t have unique registration numbers or road tax on articulated trailers, large caravans, & commercial horseboxes etc. Yes, the United Kingdom.

I Move!

right then here goes

road tax as often stated is only a part of the running costs of a vehicle

here in Spain road tax is cheap but varies a lot as do ther charges like MOT testing depending on what province you are in so all amounts can only be treated as a rough guide, where things like insurance are concerned we get a reasonable discount due to the size of the company so in the main smaller companies will often pay more

number plate tax 69,40 euros, payable for both unit and trailer
road tax 190 euros payable for both unit and trailer
administrative tax 19,81 payable for both unit and trailer
road insurance pre tractor unit 1290 euros
insurance per trailer 400 euros can be up to 700 euros for international work
goods in transit insurance 700-800 euros per trailer
add to this the toll motorways
then we can take the drivers wages in to account which may be monthly slightly lower than in the uk but they do get 3 extra monthly wages per year one at easter another at summer and the last one at Christmas.

A further cost is that of the drivers CPC which by law has to be done in Spain in an approved driving school the price for this varies from between 800-1500 euros per driver depending on the region that you are in.
Add to that the fact that vehicle spares and tyres tend to be approx 15% more expensive here you can see that the difference in overall operating costs will not be that great once the use of toll motorways has been added which obviously varies depending on the route taken.

The basic operating costs of a vehicle in Holland total out at beibng the same but the division is different, savings can be made as the company payable social taxes that are payable in Holland are far higher than in Spain but this is then off set by the fact that the insurance premuims in Holland are far lower than in Spain that means when you calculate everything in the difference is not so great just that the price varies on the individual items