No problem at all - absolutely safe and perfectly executed
If you had been on an advanced LGV test then the examiner (ex/police traffic) would have been well impressed with that.
I’m not so sure that a DSA examiner on a DSA LGV test would have liked it though
This sort of situation is where two different ways of thinking and styles are highlighted but as long as neither is unsafe, illegal or causes undue inconvenience to others, then the driver has the choice
G8YMW:
I dont block roads up, I’ve read the road well before the closure and am already merged ready.
What problems am I causing??
None, unless you have closed right up on the vehicle in front to prevent zip merging from working. You decided when you wanted to move over, that’s your choice, but people who don’t move over then and continue to use an open lane, and are encouraged to do so by the signs in order to not make the closure longer than necessary, are not doing anything wrong either.
G8YMW:
I’m not charging down the lane that is going to close and I do not cause the traffic to nearly stop because I’m not trying to be clever by barging in at the last second.
That sentence shows exactly why zip merging isn’t being allowed to work. Charging, barging, last second. While people think in those terms it will never work. Who said anything about charging or barging in at the last second? There were no signs of charging or barging in the posted video.
It’s not the traffic in the lane which is closing ahead causing the traffic to nearly stop, it’s the ones in the lane which is remaining open causing the problem by not leaving the gaps they should because as far as they are concerned anyone who has gone past them must be charging along, queue jumping and barging in.
You have to slow for the roadworks anyway so it doesn’t take much to leave a gap for someone to merge into. That’s what I do when I am in the lane which is not closing and generally I don’t have to slow very much or come to a stop when the zip merging system is working, as it tends to do in other countries.
Trying to merge traffic together at 40 mph,less than 200 yds from a lane closure,is last seconds and the only reason why there were no problems in that video is because all the traffic in the open lane had already been slowed down to a lot less than 40 mph to allow the idiots in the closed lane to merge safely without them running out of road which they would have done if all the traffic had been running at 40 mph.
The zip merging in most ‘other countries’ works simply because they put no overtaking signs out long before lane closures and if you’re not overtaking you should be in the inside lane which does exactly what I’m saying in that the traffic is travelling much faster when it merges because there’s no idiots having to slow down for a load of cones less than 200 yds ahead of them.It’s not an issue of leaving room it’s an issue of merging early enough to make that possible at much faster speeds than stupid Brit drivers seem to be capable of handling.
No problem at all - absolutely safe and perfectly executed
If you had been on an advanced LGV test then the examiner (ex/police traffic) would have been well impressed with that.
I’m not so sure that a DSA examiner on a DSA LGV test would have liked it though
This sort of situation is where two different ways of thinking and styles are highlighted but as long as neither is unsafe, illegal or causes undue inconvenience to others, then the driver has the choice
But that ex copper would also have wanted to see a block change from top straight down into second as the thing had to be brought to a near halt to merge in time before running out of road.
But yeah right so the next time some idiot decides to overtake in a non existent overtaking lane then what happens if a lot more drivers take that advice and follow that perfectly executed idea.You’ll just just end up with an even longer delay because the outside lane will be full of even more idiots having to slow up before they run out of road which means that the open lane has to slow even more further back to allow them all to merge safely.
Carryfast:
Trying to merge traffic together at 40 mph,less than 200 yds from a lane closure,is last seconds and the only reason why there were no problems in that video is because all the traffic in the open lane had already been slowed down to a lot less than 40 mph to allow the idiots in the closed lane to merge safely without them running out of road which they would have done if all the traffic had been running at 40 mph.
No one in that video was in the closed lane, well at least I couldn’t see anyone beyond the cones still in lane 2. You keep referring to it as the closed lane when it in fact isn’t closed and is very much open and available for use.
Why do you want to make a closure of say 3 miles even longer and remove perfectly usable carriageway from an already congested network. It makes absolutely no sense art all.
Carryfast:
The zip merging in most ‘other countries’ works simply because they put no overtaking signs out long before lane closures
Not usually. They sometimes put no overtaking signs out for trucks but other vehicles will still use the open lane up to the merge point. They also have signs telling you where the merge point is, telling you to use both lanes and often, in Germany, Holland and Switzerland for instance, an electronic sign with a moving graphic of zip merging in operation.
Carryfast:
Trying to merge traffic together at 40 mph,less than 200 yds from a lane closure,is last seconds and the only reason why there were no problems in that video is because all the traffic in the open lane had already been slowed down to a lot less than 40 mph to allow the idiots in the closed lane to merge safely without them running out of road which they would have done if all the traffic had been running at 40 mph.
No one in that video was in the closed lane, well at least I couldn’t see anyone beyond the cones still in lane 2. You keep referring to it as the closed lane when it in fact isn’t closed and is very much open and available for use.
Why do you want to make a closure of say 3 miles even longer and remove perfectly usable carriageway from an already congested network. It makes absolutely no sense art all.
Carryfast:
The zip merging in most ‘other countries’ works simply because they put no overtaking signs out long before lane closures
Not usually. They sometimes put no overtaking signs out for trucks but other vehicles will still use the open lane up to the merge point. They also have signs telling you where the merge point is, telling you to use both lanes and often, in Germany, Holland and Switzerland for instance, an electronic sign with a moving graphic of zip merging in operation.
Explaining how to merge to some people on here…I would just refer them to your avatar mate.
Carryfast:
Trying to merge traffic together at 40 mph,less than 200 yds from a lane closure,is last seconds and the only reason why there were no problems in that video is because all the traffic in the open lane had already been slowed down to a lot less than 40 mph to allow the idiots in the closed lane to merge safely without them running out of road which they would have done if all the traffic had been running at 40 mph.
No one in that video was in the closed lane, well at least I couldn’t see anyone beyond the cones still in lane 2. You keep referring to it as the closed lane when it in fact isn’t closed and is very much open and available for use.
Why do you want to make a closure of say 3 miles even longer and remove perfectly usable carriageway from an already congested network. It makes absolutely no sense art all.
Carryfast:
The zip merging in most ‘other countries’ works simply because they put no overtaking signs out long before lane closures
Not usually. They sometimes put no overtaking signs out for trucks but other vehicles will still use the open lane up to the merge point. They also have signs telling you where the merge point is, telling you to use both lanes and often, in Germany, Holland and Switzerland for instance, an electronic sign with a moving graphic of zip merging in operation.
Explaining how to merge to some people on here…I would just refer them to your avatar mate.
Carryfast:
Trying to merge traffic together at 40 mph,less than 200 yds from a lane closure,is last seconds and the only reason why there were no problems in that video is because all the traffic in the open lane had already been slowed down to a lot less than 40 mph to allow the idiots in the closed lane to merge safely without them running out of road which they would have done if all the traffic had been running at 40 mph.
No one in that video was in the closed lane, well at least I couldn’t see anyone beyond the cones still in lane 2. You keep referring to it as the closed lane when it in fact isn’t closed and is very much open and available for use.
Why do you want to make a closure of say 3 miles even longer and remove perfectly usable carriageway from an already congested network. It makes absolutely no sense art all.
Carryfast:
The zip merging in most ‘other countries’ works simply because they put no overtaking signs out long before lane closures
Not usually. They sometimes put no overtaking signs out for trucks but other vehicles will still use the open lane up to the merge point. They also have signs telling you where the merge point is, telling you to use both lanes and often, in Germany, Holland and Switzerland for instance, an electronic sign with a moving graphic of zip merging in operation.
So try merging at the full speed allowed in the roadworks (often 50 mph not 40) at the point where the cones are or even 200 yds back.
The no overtaking signs before lane closures that I’m referring to on the continent cover all vehicles not just trucks and with good reason.But that’s probably why those so called ‘expert’ advanced driving test ex coppers are so zb scared of allowing us to use German or continental type running speeds on Brit motorways.
Carryfast:
Trying to merge traffic together at 40 mph,less than 200 yds from a lane closure,is last seconds and the only reason why there were no problems in that video is because all the traffic in the open lane had already been slowed down to a lot less than 40 mph to allow the idiots in the closed lane to merge safely without them running out of road which they would have done if all the traffic had been running at 40 mph.
No one in that video was in the closed lane, well at least I couldn’t see anyone beyond the cones still in lane 2. You keep referring to it as the closed lane when it in fact isn’t closed and is very much open and available for use.
Why do you want to make a closure of say 3 miles even longer and remove perfectly usable carriageway from an already congested network. It makes absolutely no sense art all.
Carryfast:
The zip merging in most ‘other countries’ works simply because they put no overtaking signs out long before lane closures
Not usually. They sometimes put no overtaking signs out for trucks but other vehicles will still use the open lane up to the merge point. They also have signs telling you where the merge point is, telling you to use both lanes and often, in Germany, Holland and Switzerland for instance, an electronic sign with a moving graphic of zip merging in operation.
Explaining how to merge to some people on here…I would just refer them to your avatar mate.
Exactly but it’s the ones who think that they can merge at 50 or 40 mph less than 200 yds from the cones who need the advice.
A couple more things in that video which were impressive…
The driver of the red car that the truck pulled in front of left plenty of room for the artic so that led me to think that the red car driver saw the situation developing and acted accordingly well before the artic got there - blimey, a car driver using their mirrors
The artic driver did no go straight into the gap but lined up for it in lane two and I am going to guess that it had the left indicator on in order to ASK to be allowed to merge in then, when it became obvious that the gap was for the artic, the driver made the move.
I will also guess from the style of driving by the artic driver that had there not been a suitable gap at that point then the artic would have moved forward at a much slower pace with the left indicator still on and then waited for a suitable gap
Merging trafffic in this sort of situation is like two rivers coming together and trying to fit into the space of one river.
The only way that there will not be a slowdown effect is if the flow of water doubles in speed through the single river section after both rivers merge
No matter when you merge the rivers the effect is exactly the same
Carryfast:
So try merging at the full speed allowed in the roadworks (often 50 mph not 40) at the point where the cones are or even 200 yds back.
No one is talking about merging at full speed, they don’t merge at full speed on the continent, regardless of where people merge or the limit through the obstruction, there will always be a decrease in speed, there has to be to maintain a safe distance.
Carryfast:
The no overtaking signs before lane closures that I’m referring to on the continent cover all vehicles not just trucks and with good reason
The signs you are referring to are very rare, I don’t remember the last time I saw them used over there in this situation. If there are no overtaking signs used they are the no overtaking for trucks signs, leaving cars, vans, coaches and so on free to continue to use the other lane.
You haven’t addressed this question, don’t you have an answer?
Why do you want to make a closure of say 3 miles even longer and remove perfectly usable carriageway from an already congested network. It makes absolutely no sense art all.
i get in the correct lane when it is safe to do so, as early as possible, i then leave a gap for the idiots to get into.
but why it’s called Zip merging, i’ve no idea. it’s just merging.
A lot of places now it says use both lanes and merge in turn,rather than as a lot on here have said getting over early and making a longer tailback.
if you use all the available space in both lanes and let each other merge"in turn",does that not work like a zip then
limeyphil:
i get in the correct lane when it is safe to do so, as early as possible, i then leave a gap for the idiots to get into.
but why it’s called Zip merging, i’ve no idea. it’s just merging.
Obviously you’re still wearing your 501s with the button fly?
limeyphil:
i get in the correct lane when it is safe to do so, as early as possible, i then leave a gap for the idiots to get into.
but why it’s called Zip merging, i’ve no idea. it’s just merging.
Obviously you’re still wearing your 501s with the button fly?
limeyphil:
i get in the correct lane when it is safe to do so, as early as possible, i then leave a gap for the idiots to get into.
but why it’s called Zip merging, i’ve no idea. it’s just merging.
Obviously you’re still wearing your 501s with the button fly?
A couple more things in that video which were impressive…
The driver of the red car that the truck pulled in front of left plenty of room for the artic so that led me to think that the red car driver saw the situation developing and acted accordingly well before the artic got there - blimey, a car driver using their mirrors
The artic driver did no go straight into the gap but lined up for it in lane two and I am going to guess that it had the left indicator on in order to ASK to be allowed to merge in then, when it became obvious that the gap was for the artic, the driver made the move.
I will also guess from the style of driving by the artic driver that had there not been a suitable gap at that point then the artic would have moved forward at a much slower pace with the left indicator still on and then waited for a suitable gap
Merging trafffic in this sort of situation is like two rivers coming together and trying to fit into the space of one river.
The only way that there will not be a slowdown effect is if the flow of water doubles in speed through the single river section after both rivers merge
No matter when you merge the rivers the effect is exactly the same
I agree . Did I just say I agreed with Rog on something? Someone call a doctor please.
Carryfast:
So try merging at the full speed allowed in the roadworks (often 50 mph not 40) at the point where the cones are or even 200 yds back.
No one is talking about merging at full speed, they don’t merge at full speed on the continent, regardless of where people merge or the limit through the obstruction, there will always be a decrease in speed, there has to be to maintain a safe distance.
Carryfast:
The no overtaking signs before lane closures that I’m referring to on the continent cover all vehicles not just trucks and with good reason
The signs you are referring to are very rare, I don’t remember the last time I saw them used over there in this situation. If there are no overtaking signs used they are the no overtaking for trucks signs, leaving cars, vans, coaches and so on free to continue to use the other lane.
You haven’t addressed this question, don’t you have an answer?
Why do you want to make a closure of say 3 miles even longer and remove perfectly usable carriageway from an already congested network. It makes absolutely no sense art all.
If it’s a 50 mph limit through the road works then there’s no reason why the traffic can’t run at that speed through them.There’s no connection between speed and maintaining seperation distance if all traffic maintains it’s speed in whichever lane it’s using and the lower limit is given as an advanced warning so traffic ‘should’ be able to adjust it’s speed together with it’s seperation distance for the roadworks before reaching them.
But the thing that zb’s it all up and causes the tailback in the first place is those idiots who decide to merge too close to the point of closure and therefore have to reduce speed to avoid running into the cones and that’s when the traffic in the open lane has to slow down to far below the running speed allowed for the roadworks to allow safe merging and to maintain seperation distance.
Whereas if the merging is carried out much further back it’s no different to an ordinary overtaking operation carried out using an overtaking lane that is’nt about to shut in your face 500-600 feet in front of you.
But I have answered the question related to no overtaking signs being used regularly on the continent before lane closures,and even hard shoulder closures,and that’s one of the safe differences between our zb up,of how to use a motorway, and theirs.But if you have’nt seen them then you have’nt been looking for them but if you ever used those roads at the types of speeds which I have you’d soon learn to look out for them.
All those people in lane 1 are blocking half the road for half a mile unnecessarily.
It’s quite simple really as ROG stated in post #6: scenario 2, this is a case where both lanes should be used to their utmost; in fact I would probably have gone a bit further in the outer lane than the videoing driver. If people want to queue though then it’s their choice.
However, if and when the traffic is cruising along at 40 in lane 1 prior to the roadworks then the situation should switch to scenario 1 (use one lane only to avoid merging right near the bottleneck) whereby if you are overtaking then you would be breaking the law anyway (exceeding the speed limit) and will probably have to brake sharply when you reach the inevitable slowing down through the actual bottleneck. You should thus merge sooner, as by even doing only 40 in the outer lane the road will rapidly run out as the cones approach. Surely the max speed limit is fast enough? I bet you who have to travel through there at busy times would love it if only all could and did do 40 in only 1 lane.
On a similar note, I find it only a mild annoyance when people stick to and block the left-hand lane when they want to go straight on when approaching e.g. a junction where I want to turn left when there are other lanes completely empty that they could have used thus saving both of us a bit of time. Their mentality is the same sort as the queuers above I believe.
. Did I just say I agreed with Rog on something? 
Someone call a doctor please.