How many charts do you carry?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

to my knowledge, we are only required to carry this weeks charts plus the last one from the previous week :exclamation:

i was pulled up today for handing my charts in for last week. apparently, we are now supposed to carry 28 days worth of charts which to me contradicts the maximum 21 day rule. the VOSA website is no good since i dont actually get any of the regs showing up however, i did find this in the FAQ section

FAQ.54) How many charts do I have to carry with me?

[See Section 29, Section 30 and Section 38 of GV262]

You must carry enough “unused” charts to last the whole journey, plus some spares in case any become dirty or damaged. You are also required to carry charts which have been recorded on, for the current week and the last day of the previous week in which you drove. After this period has elapsed you must ensure charts are returned to your employer within 21 days of the day in question.

i know another question has been raised recently so this may be of use

FAQ.53) Is it illegal to open the tachograph head to check how long I have been driving, and thus when my 45 minute break is due?

The EC rules state that:

“The record sheet shall not be withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal is otherwise authorized.”.

In DfT’s view, this requirement should be taken to mean that the record sheet should not normally be removed from the tachograph until the driver has actually finished work for the day. Whilst every effort should be made to ensure that the above requirement is complied with, the DfT would not normally regard the opening of the head as an illegal act, as such action is normally recorded automatically on the tachograph chart.

2

I carry the current week and the previous weeks.

Tonight when I go in (would have been last night, had I worked), I shall swap the week before last for a fresh wallet of seven.

I also have a box of them in case anything goes wrong!

I’ve never opened the drawer mid-shift, other than when I’ve had to change vehicle, but I doubt I’d have any problems if I had, because you’re only looking at it. You’re not actually removing it, as such.

I hardly think that any one would clobber you for looking so that you can comply with the regs.

I am open to correction though. :laughing: (had to drop that in, sorry :unamused: )

3

I understood it to be the current week and last day of previous week.

Although i tend to carry the whole of last week, as it’s just easier that way.

4

scanny77:
to my knowledge, we are only required to carry this weeks charts plus the last one from the previous week :exclamation:

i was pulled up today for handing my charts in for last week. apparently, we are now supposed to carry 28 days worth of charts which to me contradicts the maximum 21 day rule.

Who told you this Scanny, someone in your office, VOSA, A police officer? Nothing has changed and you still only need to carry the current week and all of the last week. If this means you don’t have enough charts with you to prove you had a weekly rest then this is still OK, although many drivers do carry enough to show this as it can make life easier. Carrying more than 21 is still an offence.

Check the legal page of this months Truck & Driver magazine as there is a question on this very subject on there. The expert answering the question gives the same answer as the FAQ on the VOSA site, current week plus last of previous week.

scanny77:
the VOSA website is no good since i dont actually get any of the regs showing up however, i did find this in the FAQ section

You can still find the rules on the VOSA site here. They are in pdf format so you will need Adobe Acrobat to open them.

5

think more to the point, the operator of the vehicle must be able on request produce all charts relevant to that vehicle upto 21 days prior to the date of request so why would anyone want their driver to hang on to charts longer than necessary?
although saying all that i’ve always thought as a driver you only needed to carry the current weeks charts and the last one of the previous week?

6

EU PRESS RELEASE

Above is the link that the bottom paragraph came from.Not inforce yet but will be as of 2008.

Checks at the roadside can be more extensive: currently checks may be made of the current week’s records and the day in the previous week that the driver drove. In future, and in line with the introduction of the digital tachograph, and the personal driver card which stores up to 28 days of data, inspectors may look back up to 28 days from 1 January 2008 to determine if infringements have been committed. Drivers must either carry their card or 28 days worth of records.

Hope it help’s you Scanny

link edited to save me buying a bigger monitor :wink: …Denis F

7

As the other answers state, all the charts for this week and the last chart from the previous week in which you drove, Problem occurs when you have a week off, you have to remember to have the last chart from the week prior to your week off. There is no requirement to be able to show a weekly rest period, although it makes the check easier (especially abroad) if you can. If you had your weekly rest on friday and saturday, then drove on sunday and monday you would only need to carry sundays’ chart with you on monday, assuming you had put mondays chart in the tacho :smiley: :smiley:
The return within 21 days of use is a requirement under Transport Act and only affects British drivers and operators, no idea what other regulation apply to foreign trucks in their own countries.
The 28 day idea may or may not come to pass when the new drivers hours regs get published next year, should be around April time. Although if it does go through, then the 21 day rule here in the UK will have to change

8

The rules are changing because of the new tacho credit card. Because it can hold 28 days the rules will go on to state you have to carry 28 days of your analogue cards also

Oh and it will be illegal to drive a truck with a digital tacho if you dont have a card. If you do and also drive analogue you have to take a print off from the digital tacho, but dont ask me why. :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :wink:

9

ralliesport:
If you do and also drive analogue you have to take a print off from the digital tacho, but dont ask me why. :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :wink:

For the same reason we have to carry a certain number of charts now. If you are stopped while driving an non digital tacho truck but have driven a digital one earlier in the week, or 28 day period as it will then be, you have to be able to show a complete record and the print out will do that.

10

Coffeeholic:
For the same reason we have to carry a certain number of charts now. If you are stopped while driving an non digital tacho truck but have driven a digital one earlier in the week, or 28 day period as it will then be, you have to be able to show a complete record and the print out will do that.

But if we are stopped we will have our digital card to show.

11

Depends if the person stopping you has a computer and the software to read the card or not I guess, having the print out means that they will still be able to check regardless.

12

i think that is causing the confusion Jim. it is probably regarding the digital tachos rather than the paper ones.

i got back yesterday and our trainer/H+S/union rep (this guy has a lot of jobs) pulled me up for handing my tachos in for last week (minus the last day of course) and told me that he received an email from some organisation stating that we are required to carry tachos covering the last 28 days. i did ask him for a website address but he just told me to look at the VOSA site. until i see this in black and white, i will ignore it. i asked the boss about it today and he hasnt heard anything either. his attitude is the same as mine though ie when i see it, i will believe it.

thanks guys :wink:

13

Coffeeholic:
Depends if the person stopping you has a computer and the software to read the card or not I guess, having the print out means that they will still be able to check regardless.

Ok I can see that point of view, but what happens when someone stops you who cant read a digital card?

Also say you work with the same wagon with a digital card but you are asked to drive on with a analogue system, will you be braking the law because you havent taken print outs of your preious 27 days?

I assumed the one benefit for the driver is the fact that their is no more hassles with paperwork :open_mouth: :wink:

14

ralliesport:

Coffeeholic:
Depends if the person stopping you has a computer and the software to read the card or not I guess, having the print out means that they will still be able to check regardless.

Ok I can see that point of view, but what happens when someone stops you who cant read a digital card?

I presume that you can print the data out for them at that time. I recall reading somewhere that not having a roll of paper for the printer will be an offence.

ralliesport:
Also say you work with the same wagon with a digital card but you are asked to drive on with a analogue system, will you be braking the law because you havent taken print outs of your preious 27 days?

Not sure, many things are still to be decided but I guess that is why they want you to take a print out of the card with you, so you have the required record.

ralliesport:
I assumed the one benefit for the driver is the fact that their is no more hassles with paperwork :open_mouth: :wink:

Oh I am sure they will manage to come up with a whole load of new things designed to confuse. :wink: :smiley: :smiley:

15

scanny77:
i think that is causing the confusion Jim. it is probably regarding the digital tachos rather than the paper ones.

i got back yesterday and our trainer/H+S/union rep (this guy has a lot of jobs)

Seems he is jack of all trades and master of none. :wink: :smiley:

scanny77:
pulled me up for handing my tachos in for last week (minus the last day of course) and told me that he received an email from some organisation stating that we are required to carry tachos covering the last 28 days.

So he didn’t think to verify this information and took the email at face value? I have this great money making scheme email i can send him if you just let me have his email address. :wink: :smiley:

scanny77:
i did ask him for a website address but he just told me to look at the VOSA site.

He wants you to look at VOSA but he obviously hasn’t. :open_mouth: :unamused: :wink: :smiley:

scanny77:
until i see this in black and white, i will ignore it. i asked the boss about it today and he hasnt heard anything either. his attitude is the same as mine though ie when i see it, i will believe it.

seems the best course off action as it will not be a requirement for a while yet, and I am sure when it is there will be more publicity about it than just an odd email.

16

ralliesport said;

Oh and it will be illegal to drive a truck with a digital tacho if you dont have a card

Absolutely correct, do not even think of taking a digital equipped vehicle if you do not have a drivers smart card. That said, there are a limited number of circumstances where you can drive without a drivers card;
a) You live in a Member State that has not started issuing smart cards. That doesn’t apply to anybody ‘living’ in UK as DVLA started issuing cards in June of this year.
b) your card has been lost / stolen or is malfunctioning. Under these conditions you must report the matter to the competent authority (in the UK that is DVLA) within 7 days. If the card is lost / stolen abroad you should also report this to the Police in the area where the loss / theft happened, this should prove most amusing for those of us who have ever tried informing the Police abroad of anything other than our bank account number :open_mouth: :open_mouth: . DVLA then have 5 working days to get your replacement card to the local DVLA office or VOSA Test Station of your choice, so you can collect the replacement. You can drive for upto 15 days, or longer if necessary to reach base, without a smart card.
BUT; in either a) or b) above you MUST at the end of each day make an activity print from the Vehicle Unit (VU). You have to sign the printout, put your FULL name on it and also your driving licence number or your smart card number. You then treat the printout as you would any tachograph chart (so simmer in red wine for 20 minutes and eat with lashings of brown sauce :smiley: ) Alternatively produce like you would a chart currently; all records for this week and the last one from the proceeding week in which you drove.
ralliesport also wrote;

If you do and also drive analogue you have to take a print off from the digital tacho, but dont ask me why.

No printout required as the record will be on your drivers smart card unless a) or b) above apply.
coffeeholic wrote;

For the same reason we have to carry a certain number of charts now. If you are stopped while driving an non digital tacho truck but have driven a digital one earlier in the week, or 28 day period as it will then be, you have to be able to show a complete record and the print out will do that.

Agreed Neil, if the regulations change so you must show 28 days worth of records you will have to carry any analogue charts used during that period. You will also have to produce your digital smart card if you have one. But you only need produce printouts if either a) or b) above apply within the period. Otherwise it is the records held on your smart card that count. Whilst the card can hold upto 28 days worth of data, you have to remember that if you use the card on days 1,3,4,5 and drive analogue equipped vehicles on day 2 and 6 your card will only have 4 records on it. The record on day 29 overwrites the record for day 1, day 30 overwrites day 2 etc.
coffeeholic also wrote;

Depends if the person stopping you has a computer and the software to read the card or not I guess, having the print out means that they will still be able to check regardless.

Doen’t matter what equipment the inspecting person has (or hasn’t) your record is the driver card and not the printouts (unless a or b apply). Any inspecting officer can obtain printouts using the VU of either you smart card contents or the VU contents or both. Both driver and operator are obliged to make sure sufficient printer paper is available for this purpose. The paper is type approved by the way (like charts) and you must make sure you have the right one for the VU. I know this one is going to upset enforcement officers abroad, but if they don’t have the kit to interrogate your smart card, that is not your problem, you are not required to carry printouts to make them feel better.
ralliesport said;

Also say you work with the same wagon with a digital card but you are asked to drive on with a analogue system, will you be braking the law because you havent taken print outs of your preious 27 days?

Not unless a) or b) above apply, you simply smile and produce your driver card.
FINALLY, an enforcement officer cannot take a drivers smart card and retain it unless one of the following apply:
c) the card was obtained using false documents or by deception
d) a driver is using a card that doesn’t belong to them, should be pretty easy to check, the officer just looks at the photograph :slight_smile:
e) the card is forged or has been tampered with, again pretty easy to spot, a hole is drilled thru the chip or a photo is stuck over the original on the card.
Sorry this was a long post but digital tacho has lots of ‘issues’ with it, what do you expect when the legislation runs to over 230 pages!

17

geebee45:
coffeeholic also wrote;

Depends if the person stopping you has a computer and the software to read the card or not I guess, having the print out means that they will still be able to check regardless.

Doen’t matter what equipment the inspecting person has (or hasn’t) your record is the driver card and not the printouts (unless a or b apply). Any inspecting officer can obtain printouts using the VU of either you smart card contents or the VU contents or both. Both driver and operator are obliged to make sure sufficient printer paper is available for this purpose. The paper is type approved by the way (like charts) and you must make sure you have the right one for the VU. I know this one is going to upset enforcement officers abroad, but if they don’t have the kit to interrogate your smart card, that is not your problem, you are not required to carry printouts to make them feel better.

I see, so if you are stopped on a day when you are driving a non digital equipped vehicle if they haven’t got anything to read your card that is their problem? Bet that will lead to some ‘interesting’ discussions at checks in various countries :wink:

Obviously on a day you are driving digital they can take a print out from it.

This is going to be even more fun than the last time they changed the hours rules.

18

coffeeholic wrote;

I see, so if you are stopped on a day when you are driving a non digital equipped vehicle if they haven’t got anything to read your card that is their problem? Bet that will lead to some ‘interesting’ discussions at checks in various countries

I agree 100 per cent with you. :smiley: Had to pay more than enough to the Exchequers of countries where the enforcement officers had a different understanding of the rules than those published :imp:
All I can suggest is that you download a copy of EEC 1360/2002 and print out the first 47 pages or so. When they argue let them read the document. If they get stroppy let them have sight of the next 190 odd pages. As your sig says ‘BELIEVE’ you will loose the will to live if you attempt to understand the full technical stuff behind Annex 1B :confused:

19

I cant imagine every single plod is going to be issued with card reading equipment.

But it is going to cause problems in another area. All the records are now kept at company headquarters. But the records are now going to be dispersed in to each truck and hired trucks, its going to become harder for vosa to track down driving records.

And someone is going to have to keep records of which truck each driver was driving each day, if the truck is sold or hired where it has gone too.

And who is going to be legally responcible for the records?

20

ralliesport:
But it is going to cause problems in another area. All the records are now kept at company headquarters. But the records are now going to be dispersed in to each truck and hired trucks, its going to become harder for vosa to track down driving records.

The requirement for an operator to monitor drivers hours and compliance with the regulations isn’t going to change so the company will download the data from the tacho head and drivers cards, and retain it for a year. This is from the FAQ section on the Governments Digital Tacho website.

Do I / we need to keep driver(s) records / data?

As with tachograph charts, you will need to keep records for each of your drivers for a year. As the data on a driver card will be overwritten after about 28 days, then you will need to take a copy of this data before it gets overwritten. In the case of the digital tachograph there is also data stored in the vehicle unit, and this must also be retained.

ralliesport:
And someone is going to have to keep records of which truck each driver was driving each day, if the truck is sold or hired where it has gone too.

Companies do that now anyway so there is no change there. If a vehicle is sold then the data would be downloaded first, there is also a facility to lock that data so another operator would not be able to view it

ralliesport:
And who is going to be legally responcible for the records?

Again, no change so the responsibilities are the same as before.