How can the rates ever improve

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

repton:

:
As my choice has [zb] things up for you maybe you should tell my wife and kids “sorry Daddy’s not working today because he’s holding out for more money so it’s Asda value beans on Tesco Low Cost Toast With Sainsbury Marg again!”

Well if you’re daft enough to waste fuel driving to three different supermarkets you deserve everything you get…

Joking aside, I’m with Rob on this one. The issue is essentially one of supply and demand - there are lots of drivers chasing relatively little work. That will always end in rates heading the wrong way. It’s the same as the issue with haulage in general really - too many people chasing too little work.

Paul

Which is what I told him, Blair and Brown flooded the UK jobs market with an open door immigration policy partly to gain their votes for Labour and partly to drive costs down for your Lord Sainsbury and Lord Tesco! It is really hard to get points like this across to uneducated people though.

Rob automatically assumed that because these new people entered the UK jobs market and did not go after HGV jobs that it did not affect that market. You are so wrong Rob on so many levels. You think I am a newbie, I am not. I started driving for a living in 1977 leaving the army. 1979 I did my PSV and I was a transport manager/Driver living in Lyon all through the 80’s and early 90’s earning good money driving coaches across Europe so don’t talk down to me about your experience. In 1992 I embarked on a HND and then a degree in IT and had a 15 year career in IT. After going into property and being away from IT for 10 years I no longer have the skills to get work in the IT industry. My property empire has collapsed and all I have left in my licences. The clue if you had a brain is to look at my posts and you will see I posted little snippets like “I am doing my medical” and “I have posted my D2 and D4” etc.

The danger Rob with overpopulating a Country that has no jobs, no manufacturing and now no service industry as well as losing the financial services is that the immigrants take up the OTHER jobs and people who can’t get work in their CHOSEN industry ends up chasing YOUR job. Like me!

Signed up to another 2 agencies today :smiley:

62

alder:

repton:

:
As my choice has [zb] things up for you maybe you should tell my wife and kids “sorry Daddy’s not working today because he’s holding out for more money so it’s Asda value beans on Tesco Low Cost Toast With Sainsbury Marg again!”

Well if you’re daft enough to waste fuel driving to three different supermarkets you deserve everything you get…

Joking aside, I’m with Rob on this one. The issue is essentially one of supply and demand - there are lots of drivers chasing relatively little work. That will always end in rates heading the wrong way. It’s the same as the issue with haulage in general really - too many people chasing too little work.

Paul

Which is what I told him, Blair and Brown flooded the UK jobs market with an open door immigration policy partly to gain their votes for Labour and partly to drive costs down for your Lord Sainsbury and Lord Tesco! It is really hard to get points like this across to uneducated people though.

Rob automatically assumed that because these new people entering the jobs market did not get in the lorries that does not affect that market. You are so wrong Rob on so many levels. You think I am a newbie, I am not. I started driving for a living in 1977 leaving the army. 1979 I did my PSV and I was a transport manager/Driver living in Lyon all through the 80’s and early 90’s earning good money driving coaches across Europe so don’t talk down to me about your experience. In 1992 I embarked on a HND and then a degree in IT and had a 15 year career in IT. After going into property and being away from IT for 10 years I no longer have the skills to get work in the IT industry. My property empire has collapsed and all I have left in my licences. The clue if you had a brain is to look at my posts and you will see I posted little snippets like “I am doing my medical” and “I have posted my D2 and D4” etc.

The danger Rob with overpopulating a Country that has no jobs, no manufacturing and now no service industry as well as losing the financial services is that the immigrants take up the OTHER jobs and people who can’t get work in their CHOSEN industry ends up chasing YOUR job. Like me!

Signed up to another 2 agencies today :smiley:

^ This.

Too many people seem to think that the road transport industry is immune from,and isn’t dependent on what happens to,the economy as a whole.

63

Men have to put food on the table.

I’m a bus driver, our new driver rate has gone down £1 an hour in the last 6 months!!!
And yet, people are queing up to apply.

This causes another problem, the higher rate drivers have to be very very careful, any infingement of the rules and the company will look to get rid of you and replace you with a lower rate driver.
It’s the main reason I am a member of a union.

64

alder:
Which is what I told him, Blair and Brown flooded the UK jobs market with an open door immigration policy partly to gain their votes for Labour and partly to drive costs down for your Lord Sainsbury and Lord Tesco! It is really hard to get points like this across to uneducated people though.

How ironic… You’ve never had any hands on experience running a business have you.

65

I don’t think the newbies can be blamed, if your rates are being undercut by 25 and 50 percent then its a sign of the times we are now operating in. so the simple solution is to take your service elsewhere that WILL pay the rates you are asking. Rob why are you offering your services to an agency anyway ? why are you not asking directly to the main companies then you would be in control of your own rates/hours etc,

66

Supply and demand is the key here,it doesn’t matter what line of work your in
To put it simply take diamonds why are they so expensive there only bits of polished rock
But they are rare and people want them this is why they are expensive
If diamonds where avalable in every quary they’d be worthless
This is the problem with agency drivers there not rare and genraly avalable everywhere so the price is cheap
However it’s not always about price I myself would be more concerned with the ability of the driver first
1 is he or she punctual
2 are they presentable
3 are they reliable
4 and most importantly can they drive a truck without smashing it up
There’s good agency drivers and there’s bad ones

67

lgv rates will not improve i do’nt think.

the reasons

  1. years ago drivers took years to master all the destinations,now anybody with a licence and a truckers sat nav can find anywhere easily

  2. gearbox’s took some practice to master,now they’re all push and go

  3. it was’nt acceptable years ago to keep drivers waiting 6 hours to get tipped,now it’s the norm.

  4. fuel costs are rediculous and the companies have to tighten their belts but guess who gets the shaft ?

it’s not new drivers or northerners :smiley: that’s the problem it’s a combination of everything,including the credit crunch.

68

alder:

repton:

:
As my choice has [zb] things up for you maybe you should tell my wife and kids “sorry Daddy’s not working today because he’s holding out for more money so it’s Asda value beans on Tesco Low Cost Toast With Sainsbury Marg again!”

Well if you’re daft enough to waste fuel driving to three different supermarkets you deserve everything you get…

Joking aside, I’m with Rob on this one. The issue is essentially one of supply and demand - there are lots of drivers chasing relatively little work. That will always end in rates heading the wrong way. It’s the same as the issue with haulage in general really - too many people chasing too little work.

Paul

Which is what I told him, Blair and Brown flooded the UK jobs market with an open door immigration policy partly to gain their votes for Labour and partly to drive costs down for your Lord Sainsbury and Lord Tesco! It is really hard to get points like this across to uneducated people though.

Rob automatically assumed that because these new people entered the UK jobs market and did not go after HGV jobs that it did not affect that market. You are so wrong Rob on so many levels. You think I am a newbie, I am not. I started driving for a living in 1977 leaving the army. 1979 I did my PSV and I was a transport manager/Driver living in Lyon all through the 80’s and early 90’s earning good money driving coaches across Europe so don’t talk down to me about your experience. In 1992 I embarked on a HND and then a degree in IT and had a 15 year career in IT. After going into property and being away from IT for 10 years I no longer have the skills to get work in the IT industry. My property empire has collapsed and all I have left in my licences. The clue if you had a brain is to look at my posts and you will see I posted little snippets like “I am doing my medical” and “I have posted my D2 and D4” etc.

The danger Rob with overpopulating a Country that has no jobs, no manufacturing and now no service industry as well as losing the financial services is that the immigrants take up the OTHER jobs and people who can’t get work in their CHOSEN industry ends up chasing YOUR job. Like me!

Signed up to another 2 agencies today :smiley:

I’ll concede, you are indeed right there, apologies. But even so, it still doesn’t alter the fact that newbies aren’t doing their research into the mythical “national driver shortage” before eagerly parting with their cash to training companies. If they did then perhaps they wouldn’t be so eager to toss their £3k down the khazi in exchange for buttons. :bulb:

69

stobarttrucker:
4) fuel costs are rediculous and the companies have to tighten their belts but guess who gets the shaft ?

That’s because they know that they can get away with it.

70

Carryfast:

alder:

repton:

:
As my choice has [zb] things up for you maybe you should tell my wife and kids “sorry Daddy’s not working today because he’s holding out for more money so it’s Asda value beans on Tesco Low Cost Toast With Sainsbury Marg again!”

Well if you’re daft enough to waste fuel driving to three different supermarkets you deserve everything you get…

Joking aside, I’m with Rob on this one. The issue is essentially one of supply and demand - there are lots of drivers chasing relatively little work. That will always end in rates heading the wrong way. It’s the same as the issue with haulage in general really - too many people chasing too little work.

Paul

Which is what I told him, Blair and Brown flooded the UK jobs market with an open door immigration policy partly to gain their votes for Labour and partly to drive costs down for your Lord Sainsbury and Lord Tesco! It is really hard to get points like this across to uneducated people though.

Rob automatically assumed that because these new people entering the jobs market did not get in the lorries that does not affect that market. You are so wrong Rob on so many levels. You think I am a newbie, I am not. I started driving for a living in 1977 leaving the army. 1979 I did my PSV and I was a transport manager/Driver living in Lyon all through the 80’s and early 90’s earning good money driving coaches across Europe so don’t talk down to me about your experience. In 1992 I embarked on a HND and then a degree in IT and had a 15 year career in IT. After going into property and being away from IT for 10 years I no longer have the skills to get work in the IT industry. My property empire has collapsed and all I have left in my licences. The clue if you had a brain is to look at my posts and you will see I posted little snippets like “I am doing my medical” and “I have posted my D2 and D4” etc.

The danger Rob with overpopulating a Country that has no jobs, no manufacturing and now no service industry as well as losing the financial services is that the immigrants take up the OTHER jobs and people who can’t get work in their CHOSEN industry ends up chasing YOUR job. Like me!

Signed up to another 2 agencies today :smiley:

^ This.

Too many people seem to think that the road transport industry is immune from,and isn’t dependent on what happens to,the economy as a whole.

I do wish you’d be consistent Carryfast. A few posts ago it was all Thatcher’s fault, now it’s Blair and Brown’s. You’re not a closet LibDem by any chance are you? :wink:

71

Sidevalve:

Carryfast:

alder:

repton:

:
As my choice has [zb] things up for you maybe you should tell my wife and kids “sorry Daddy’s not working today because he’s holding out for more money so it’s Asda value beans on Tesco Low Cost Toast With Sainsbury Marg again!”

Well if you’re daft enough to waste fuel driving to three different supermarkets you deserve everything you get…

Joking aside, I’m with Rob on this one. The issue is essentially one of supply and demand - there are lots of drivers chasing relatively little work. That will always end in rates heading the wrong way. It’s the same as the issue with haulage in general really - too many people chasing too little work.

Paul

Which is what I told him, Blair and Brown flooded the UK jobs market with an open door immigration policy partly to gain their votes for Labour and partly to drive costs down for your Lord Sainsbury and Lord Tesco! It is really hard to get points like this across to uneducated people though.

Rob automatically assumed that because these new people entering the jobs market did not get in the lorries that does not affect that market. You are so wrong Rob on so many levels. You think I am a newbie, I am not. I started driving for a living in 1977 leaving the army. 1979 I did my PSV and I was a transport manager/Driver living in Lyon all through the 80’s and early 90’s earning good money driving coaches across Europe so don’t talk down to me about your experience. In 1992 I embarked on a HND and then a degree in IT and had a 15 year career in IT. After going into property and being away from IT for 10 years I no longer have the skills to get work in the IT industry. My property empire has collapsed and all I have left in my licences. The clue if you had a brain is to look at my posts and you will see I posted little snippets like “I am doing my medical” and “I have posted my D2 and D4” etc.

The danger Rob with overpopulating a Country that has no jobs, no manufacturing and now no service industry as well as losing the financial services is that the immigrants take up the OTHER jobs and people who can’t get work in their CHOSEN industry ends up chasing YOUR job. Like me!

Signed up to another 2 agencies today :smiley:

^ This.

Too many people seem to think that the road transport industry is immune from,and isn’t dependent on what happens to,the economy as a whole.

I do wish you’d be consistent Carryfast. A few posts ago it was all Thatcher’s fault, now it’s Blair and Brown’s. You’re not a closet LibDem by any chance are you? :wink:

If you’ve read just about every similar comment I’ve made concerning Blair and Brown you’d know that I don’t think there was any difference whatsoever between their policies or Thatcher’s,or the LibDems.IE they’re all the same bunch of tossers. :bulb: :wink:

72

The truth is that Britain has been in decline since the second world war. When I left school in 1973 I walked out of the school gate and straight into a factory. There was no CV, no interview, no questions except 1 “when can you start lad?” to which the standard reply was “now”. Factory work then paid a decent living wage from Monday to Friday and some even did half day on Wednesday. If you wanted to save up for your first car or motorbike or if you met a young lady you wanted to take out to the pictures etc. you would put some overtime in a the standard time and a half or double time on Sunday. There was a labour shortage and Employers had lot sof money to throw at the problem. There was no globalisation and no cheap factories in China. The world craving for anything with the stamp “Made in England” on it from clocks to aircraft parts. Products were tested properly and Quality assurance was important.

Now there are 300/400 chasing every low paid job. Good truck jobs often have over 100 applications it is no wonder we are all moaning, we have all been sold down the river.

Verdict: The rates will never improve

73

Carryfast:
If you’ve read just about every similar comment I’ve made concerning Blair and Brown…

One was enough ta. I got a life to live. :wink:

74

alder:
The truth is that Britain has been in decline since the second world war. When I left school in 1973 I walked out of the school gate and straight into a factory. There was no CV, no interview, no questions except 1 “when can you start lad?” to which the standard reply was “now”. Factory work then paid a decent living wage from Monday to Friday and some even did half day on Wednesday. If you wanted to save up for your first car or motorbike or if you met a young lady you wanted to take out to the pictures etc. you would put some overtime in a the standard time and a half or double time on Sunday. There was a labour shortage and Employers had lot sof money to throw at the problem. There was no globalisation and no cheap factories in China. The world craving for anything with the stamp “Made in England” on it from clocks to aircraft parts. Products were tested properly and Quality assurance was important.

Now there are 300/400 chasing every low paid job. Good truck jobs often have over 100 applications it is no wonder we are all moaning, we have all been sold down the river.

Verdict: The rates will never improve

Some of that is a contradiction.Things were a lot worse during the 1940’s/50’s from the point of view of living standards than,as you’ve rightly described during the 1970’s,especially the early 1970’s.Make no mistake the rot set in with our membership of the EEC and then globalisation and the fact is the early 1970’s were as good as the UK economy ever got,( and probably ever will get without a total reversal in economic policy in regards to EU membership and the the global free market economy ),from the point of view of economic growth.

75

You obviously missed the point, as usual.

It were harder times to live, but there was no cheap container transport, most of the things you use everyday were manufactured locally etc.

Now the problem is not that life is hard or easy, but that machines, robots and cheap labour in the far east can do most of the work for us.

Now instead of local baker at every second street you have big bread factories that machinebake the spongy sliced bread. Amount of bread produced per hed of the worked increased dramatically, even if you include drivers who deliver it to the shops around half of the country.

This is happening with everything. Stuff is mass produced, either in hi-tech factories or by cheap labour in Asia working at the edge of being slaves.

Few years ago I was working in the newspapers industry, the old printing works in Glasgow had 20+ employers, the whole big printing works in Eurocentral have two workers - more are busy with loading the trucks.

There is less, and less, and less jobs available. Having clothes or shoes made to measure is a niche thing, everything comes in boxes from Asia. In every Tesco, even the small one, you have now self service tills, taking jobs from another people. Nobody needs 20 guys to dig a ditch if there is plenty of mini-diggers around. You got machines milking cows, machines checking tickets at the entrance to the subway, you have digital books, digital music, digital maps, digital everything really. You can even buy a silicone doll to shag her any time taking job away from hookers :slight_smile:

There are trains that don’t need a driver already (London dockland railway, some subway lines in Paris etc), and self-driving vehicles are around the corner, they drive in US on regular basis, and I believe that in 10 years they will be normal occurence in every developed country. Don’t laugh, if anyone would tell you 10 years ago about youtube, facebook and smartphones being so popular, you’ll propably won’t believe in that as well…

In the same time population rises and number of the jobs available shrinks. We can try to postpone the situation by, for example, fighting for the rights of the factory workers in Bangladesh and such, as if they will have to be paid decently, there might be more companies staying here in Europe and keeping jobs here… But I don’t believe we can postpone for more…

There are sad times coming that unless you are the programmer, highly skilled engineer or doctor, scientist or the artist (altough that last one does not require any skills any more), or will work in some kind of niche like luxury shoemaker or producer of handmade organic cakes, there would be no job for you. There is a big change around the corner compared to which the industrial revolution was piece of cake… Brace yourself, as most of us will live long enough to experience it.

76

weewulliewinkie:
I don’t think the newbies can be blamed, if your rates are being undercut by 25 and 50 percent then its a sign of the times we are now operating in. so the simple solution is to take your service elsewhere that WILL pay the rates you are asking. Rob why are you offering your services to an agency anyway ? why are you not asking directly to the main companies then you would be in control of your own rates/hours etc,

That’s easier said than done. The agencies have largely got the entire temp driver market sown up tight. You try to get in direct with the client (as ltd co) but you’re met with the same “we only use x, y and z agencies” along with weak excuses such as “it’s easier for us to use an agency if we need 10 drivers than ring round 10 individuals.” Then there’s all the back-handers that go on between the agencies and the clients. It’s well known at one particular West Yorks transport firm that brown envelopes regularly change hands between the general manager and agency owner to ensure that all his drivers are used first before contacting any other agencies. Drivers have been trying to get in there direct for years but he’s got it sown up tighter than a duck’s sphincter.

To answer your question: I could go direct if I wanted to, but this isn’t without potential complications either. When I lived in Huddersfield I did work for 2 companies. One of them was absolutely fine and paid well within my 28 day terms but the other one never paid! I did get my money out of them in other ways, such as managing to put more diesel in the tank than it would physically hold (magic! :stuck_out_tongue: ) and flogging their euros :laughing: but this is the sort of risk you face if you go direct. With agencies I assume that they’ve already vetted the client before agreeing to supply them with labour and so you are very unlikely to have any problems getting your money paid by the agency, plus they usually pay you before they get paid by the client as well, which is about as ideal as it gets. The downside is that you have no control over the dishing out of work unless you happen to be one of the agency’s golden boys. It’s swings and roundabouts as there’s advantages and disadvantages to both ways. If you manage to reach the point where the client asks for you by name then that’s generally considered to be hitting jackpot because the client gets what the client wants and this overrules the agency’s golden boy favouritism.

77

orys:
You obviously missed the point, as usual.

It were harder times to live, but there was no cheap container transport, most of the things you use everyday were manufactured locally etc.

Now the problem is not that life is hard or easy, but that machines, robots and cheap labour in the far east can do most of the work for us.

Now instead of local baker at every second street you have big bread factories that machinebake the spongy sliced bread. Amount of bread produced per hed of the worked increased dramatically, even if you include drivers who deliver it to the shops around half of the country.

This is happening with everything. Stuff is mass produced, either in hi-tech factories or by cheap labour in Asia working at the edge of being slaves.

Few years ago I was working in the newspapers industry, the old printing works in Glasgow had 20+ employers, the whole big printing works in Eurocentral have two workers - more are busy with loading the trucks.

There is less, and less, and less jobs available. Having clothes or shoes made to measure is a niche thing, everything comes in boxes from Asia. In every Tesco, even the small one, you have now self service tills, taking jobs from another people. Nobody needs 20 guys to dig a ditch if there is plenty of mini-diggers around. You got machines milking cows, machines checking tickets at the entrance to the subway, you have digital books, digital music, digital maps, digital everything really. You can even buy a silicone doll to shag her any time taking job away from hookers :slight_smile:

There are trains that don’t need a driver already (London dockland railway, some subway lines in Paris etc), and self-driving vehicles are around the corner, they drive in US on regular basis, and I believe that in 10 years they will be normal occurence in every developed country. Don’t laugh, if anyone would tell you 10 years ago about youtube, facebook and smartphones being so popular, you’ll propably won’t believe in that as well…

In the same time population rises and number of the jobs available shrinks. We can try to postpone the situation by, for example, fighting for the rights of the factory workers in Bangladesh and such, as if they will have to be paid decently, there might be more companies staying here in Europe and keeping jobs here… But I don’t believe we can postpone for more…

There are sad times coming that unless you are the programmer, highly skilled engineer or doctor, scientist or the artist (altough that last one does not require any skills any more), or will work in some kind of niche like luxury shoemaker or producer of handmade organic cakes, there would be no job for you. There is a big change around the corner compared to which the industrial revolution was piece of cake… Brace yourself, as most of us will live long enough to experience it.

:unamused:

the-mound-of-sound.blogspot.co.u … bread.html

78

Santa:
Years ago I used to believe that if you employed someone, made them responsible for a truck worth thousands and its load, and then sent them out to deliver said load, overcoming any problems, negotiating with customers and representing your company, that they were worth more than a labourer’s wage.

What has happened since is, as in many other trades, that the job has be de-skilled. Employers see drivers as little more than labourers. They also see that many drivers spend a good deal of their time doing nothing. Drivers today are not expected to do much more than steer their truck to a destination, open the curtains or doors, and wait while they get loaded or unloaded. The advent of mobile phones, trackers, automatic everything has made the job so easy that almost anyone can do it.

Why should we expect to be paid more than someone who grafts all day, under supervision, in a warehouse?

Pay peanuts and get monkeys

The industry has had it … as soon as i am offered £8 per hr then i am off to fill shelfs at asdas

Why would i want to hurtle around with 18 ton behind me for £8 per hour when i could stack a few niece or bourbon biscuits onto the shelf

79

Carryfast! I can’t believe. That day came! Finally! You understood what I am talking about!

But of course you are naive to think that it is possible to come back to what used to be. How you see that employers suddenly start to pay more to their workers?

I think we rather sooner see something like that:

Free minimum payment to everyone, work to some, most of the profits going to few.

80

JLS Driver SOS:
Hi all I work as a class 2 driver for quite a big company ive only been working there about 6 months and its my first driving job… and to be honest im quite shocked at the amount of drivers that smoke weed or do coke granted not many do it during work time

This type of thing will not help the situation, what amazes me who can afford coke on a drivers wages !!! :open_mouth:

:grimacing: made my night :grimacing: