short walk:
reading this really makes me think why the hell bother, very sad as I used to love crossing France, think the world’s gone mad. No wonder few want to get involved with the job anymore.
The topic is more about car use and car limits than trucks.Nothing much has changed in the case of trucks assuming that the cameras which they seem to be setting off like Christmas trees through the night might in many cases have enough of a tolerance knocked off afterwards to allow at least running on the 90 kmh limiter in an 80 kmh limit.Or maybe even a bit more without too much of a penalty.The problems are in the case of running at what were/are quite reasonable speeds for the road/traffic conditions with a car and that applies in the case of everything from the ridiculous NSL autoroute limits to RN/D roads let alone when those limits are arbitrarily and randomly reduced even further.
The rules for trucks have not changed in France. For many years it has remained at 80 on RNs, just wasn’t enforced and trucks were allowed to run on the limiter. Despite this, running at 90 myself I frequently came upon slower trucks, so many were obeying.
What has changed now is that the 80 limit will be enforced by the now recalibrated cameras, fixed or with gendarmes. A truck now flashed on the limiter at 90 will be credited with a true speed of 85 and thus a fine will be imposed and a single point deducted from the driver’s tally of 12, if he is a French licence holder that is. The driver of a foreign registered vehicle I think can still avoid this penalty, unless agreements have been reached with certain countries, but it would be for fines only as different countries have different points systems and penalties. In UK you gain 3 points whereas in France you lose 1 for example.
But I won’t risk it, thay may not be as frequent as in years gone by before the proliferation of fixed cameras, but the sight of gendarmes in ditches, hedges and driveways is becoming more of a feature again and a foreign driver may well have to pay up on the spot .
One small point, I have heard but can’t confirm, that non UK drivers who have been flashed in the UK are sometimes stopped when re-entering UK because ANPR cameras have alerted an unpaid penalty. It may work in the opposite direction for all I know.
Carryfast:
As for not being able to rent a quick car,or even in some cases any car at all,in the UK for Euro use but you can rent whatever you like in France etc for French etc use how does that supposedly discourage fast driving in France ?. 
:
It is a discouragement because, as I said before, any fines will be traced back via the French hire car company to your credit card in the same way that my little economies of many years ago by booking a cheap day return on the ferry/tunnel then buying another a fotnight later to get back home were halted by that very method. It’s in the small print when you present it, they have the right to pass on fines attributed to their cars and take the money after you get home.
Unless, of course you keep cancelling and replacing with different cards, but I don’t think you will get away with that for too long.
As for your convoluted conspiracy theories, I’ll leave those for others to unravel. Or ignore.
Spardo:
The rules for trucks have not changed in France. For many years it has remained at 80 on RNs, just wasn’t enforced and trucks were allowed to run on the limiter. Despite this, running at 90 myself I frequently came upon slower trucks, so many were obeying.
What has changed now is that the 80 limit will be enforced by the now recalibrated cameras, fixed or with gendarmes. A truck now flashed on the limiter at 90 will be credited with a true speed of 85 and thus a fine will be imposed and a single point deducted from the driver’s tally of 12, if he is a French licence holder that is.
In that case I’d take back what I wrongly thought concerning trucks.If they are going to rigidly enforce the 80 kmh limit v 90 kmh without sufficient tolerance to even let 90 kmh go that is a massive change.
As you’ve rightly said yourself before it wasn’t a matter of what the number actually said on the sign but how loosely it was enforced and as I’ve said not that long ago that mean’t a real world 100 mph + autoroute regime and around 75 mph on the RN’s for cars and trucks generally avoiding the autoroutes and travelling at 55-60 mph on the RN’s.As I said I think we can compare this new draconian enforcement regime with that which applied in the US during the 1980’s.But in reverse as where the Americans were on the tipping point of increasing limits from a strictly enforced 55 mph to firstly 65 mph and now in some cases 85 mph,Euroland is obviously going in the opposite direction.
While I can see trouble ahead in France if all those truck drivers who I saw,still applying old school attitudes to speed just as I was,at least at night,are now going to get points on their licence for running on their limiters and were totally ignoring/forgetting/underestimating the threat of cameras and the draconian non existent levels of tolerance and discretion now being applied as part of that.The difference being that,unlike French truck drivers,‘tourists’ can just not bother to drive in France and take their chances on the still free to use ( for cars ) Belgian and German motorways.IE why pay for the privilege of getting seriously nicked whether on motorways or N/D roads.So as others have said yes zb France as usual Macron being Macron is taking the ■■■■.
Spardo:
Carryfast:
As for not being able to rent a quick car,or even in some cases any car at all,in the UK for Euro use but you can rent whatever you like in France etc for French etc use how does that supposedly discourage fast driving in France ?. :
It is a discouragement because, as I said before, any fines will be traced back via the French hire car company to your credit card in the same way that my little economies of many years ago by booking a cheap day return on the ferry/tunnel then buying another a fotnight later to get back home were halted by that very method. It’s in the small print when you present it, they have the right to pass on fines attributed to their cars and take the money after you get home.
Unless, of course you keep cancelling and replacing with different cards, but I don’t think you will get away with that for too long.
As for your convoluted conspiracy theories, I’ll leave those for others to unravel. Or ignore.
By your logic they’d have to ban all foreign reg cars from the country and only allow French reg locally hired vehicles to be used on their roads,assuming it’s supposedly all about getting direct financial enforcement control over foreign drivers using French roads.Also bearing in mind that they’ve already now got the provision to impose French fines on foreign drivers using foreign reg vehicles by way of access to the foreign reg data banks.Also feel free to post any actual French law which says that a UK based car hire firm couldn’t hire out a UK reg X5 M for example for European use just the same as they can certainly hire out the still 125 mph capable ( if anyone was daft enough to use all that speed now on French roads ) small eco SUV that I actually hired.Then you’ve got the nerve to say that it’s me who’s making up a silly conspiracy theory.
It’s clear enough who actually gains from the European speed crusade.That being first and foremost the fast rail and short haul air transport operators and the car hire providers that obviously co operate with them on a mutually beneficial basis.Followed by the big hotel chains catering for all the added unnecessary travel stops and lastly the autoroute operators hoping to gain from any switch from the RN’s onto their relatively less regulated routes especially in the case of long distance travellers who don’t switch to air or rail.
IE this has nothing to do with safety ( or emissions ) bs and everything to do with the big corporate beneficiaries wanting more than their fair share of the European travel market.By trying to put the long established and far more convenient long distance fast road ( Gran Turismo ) travel option out of the frame. 
Indeed, but some people do want to visit France, so there is no other way to do it if they are driving. Same thing for Spain and Portugal, unless of course they want to take the ferry to Santander which I believe is both boring and expensive. Never done it myself, just what I have heard.
But for us residents it could be win-almost win, less foreign traffic on the roads, if you are right, and less Brits descending on my local supermarket and snaffling all the digestives before I can get to them. 
BTW, Macron’s not a bad bloke, certainly better then the last one, or the one before that, and definitely better than the one he beat in the Presdential election. (Though I know you won’t agree with that. 
)
Sorry,Spardo,I will continue to drive through France 3 or 4 round trips a year.Although I vary my route I shouldn’t raid any supermarkets in your part of the world.(dept.24?)I like France and it is no big deal to change my driving habits to adapt to different styles of enforcement not that I flee about anyway.I usually arrive through Roscoff,Ouistreham or Dieppe to enable visits to grandchildren between Devon and Sussex.My Mondeo gives me 750 miles or so per tankful so I can leave French garages alone too.I do like the autoroutes though using my tags and a 110kph top speed there is no grief.
As you say,the Santander or Bilbao ferries are tedious and expensive,the latter involves 2 nights on board I believe.Santander is an easy 10 hours or less from my place in Spain but the price is a lot more than the round trip costs of a drive.
Spardo:
Indeed, but some people do want to visit France, so there is no other way to do it if they are driving. Same thing for Spain and Portugal, unless of course they want to take the ferry to Santander which I believe is both boring and expensive. Never done it myself, just what I have heard.
But for us residents it could be win-almost win, less foreign traffic on the roads, if you are right, and less Brits descending on my local supermarket and snaffling all the digestives before I can get to them.
BTW, Macron’s not a bad bloke, certainly better then the last one, or the one before that, and definitely better than the one he beat in the Presdential election. (Though I know you won’t agree with that. )
Serious petrol heads like me usually only viewed France as a convenient provider of top class roads and sensible enforcement.Usually to get through the place as quick as possible at night so doubtful that you’d have been bothered by us getting in your way or nicking your biscuits.
Never forget the France Gall record Ellah belting out on French radio at 140 mph mixed with the V12 soundtrack running down to Strasbourg and Kehl instead of going through Belgium to Aachen. 
Better days. 
While now even their music is as bad as their poxy President.
As for using the boat to Spain it could only be described as relatively boring compared to driving there under that old school speed regime.While now the choice is a no brainer with the brain numbing American type speed regime on roads designed for 100 mph + combined with the silly cost of petrol.Possibly even to the point of using the boat to Santander and then Barcelona to Genoa to go to Italy.At least for anyone like me who likes sea travel as much as quick motoring and assuming that the Krauts follow the Frogs in toughening up on their even madder 120 kmh autobahn limits. 
Gidders:
Sorry,Spardo,I will continue to drive through France 3 or 4 round trips a year.Although I vary my route I shouldn’t raid any supermarkets in your part of the world.(dept.24?)I like France and it is no big deal to change my driving habits to adapt to different styles of enforcement not that I flee about anyway.I usually arrive through Roscoff,Ouistreham or Dieppe to enable visits to grandchildren between Devon and Sussex.My Mondeo gives me 750 miles or so per tankful so I can leave French garages alone too.I do like the autoroutes though using my tags and a 110kph top speed there is no grief.
As you say,the Santander or Bilbao ferries are tedious and expensive,the latter involves 2 nights on board I believe.Santander is an easy 10 hours or less from my place in Spain but the price is a lot more than the round trip costs of a drive.
No problem for me Gidders, you are welcome I am sure, especially as a fellow 110 relaxed and griefless driver. 
Well 9 months or so after the dreaded 80 came in and time for a brief update. It was brought in on the grounds of road safety for a (I think) 2 year trial period.
9 months later and I have no idea if it has had a beneficial effect on casualty numbers though I have heard that it has not.
But it has shown a distinct downturn in safety in one particular way. Although a very large number of drivers risk it and exceed it the most consistant ‘offenders’ are the lorry drivers. Before the drop most were driving at 90, of course, on the limiter, but in practice because of roads which go up and down and left and right weighed down with freight, the real normal speed was around 85.
Now, a large percentage of them seem to continue as before, at 85, which means there is a very large increase in the incidence of tailgating. Large trucks travelling way to close to cars obeying the limit. Added to this is the increased number of short dual sections (90 or even 110 limits) or sections with an overtaking lane in one direction. This is to allow lighter vehicles to overtake the heavies. But of course, having got past lorries doing 85, these car drivers now dutifully drop down to 80 again, making the tailgating even worse partly due to the increased anger felt by the lorry drivers.
One of the worst routes for this is the N 79 between Macon and Montlucon, a route I travel quite often and now, because of the above, tend to find myself a lorry doing 85 and follow rather than pass. It makes life much safer and more relaxed.
I also make maximum use of the cruise and set it to 84 or 94 on the Nationals. This produces a real speed of about 3 km/hr less than the car speedo and keeps me legal.
It will be interesting watching the Gendarmes chase Tour de France riders down the mountains and other hilly sections where the bikes can reach
some scary speeds. Geraint Thomas would have won the 2019 Tour but his bike was confiscated for speeding during the first week.Yup! could be fun.
France is a beautiful country and the people are fine as well. Spent many holidays travelling around but keeping away from the toll roads only because they are boring to drive.
A drop in speed limits will not keep the majority away. People like carryfast are your typical Brit. Hates the French. Probably because they know how to stick up for themselves.
jakethesnake:
France is a beautiful country and the people are fine as well. Spent many holidays travelling around but keeping away from the toll roads only because they are boring to drive.
A drop in speed limits will not keep the majority away. People like carryfast are your typical Brit. Hates the French. Probably because they know how to stick up for themselves.
I agree France is a beautiful country and I’ve spent many warm continental Summer evenings there and in Italy with like minded car enthusiasts from all over Europe including France.All of us moaning about the ever increasing level of …French speed ‘enforcement’ and our memories of better days.Bearing in mind the ‘limits’ were always more or less there.How does that translate as ‘hating the French’.
I used to regularly travel through France on holiday, mainly by motorcycle, but sometimes with the family in the car. The last few years has seen the pleasure drained away with the over policing particularly of foreign drivers like myself, even when trying to keep to the speed limits.
I know get the ferry to Zebrugge and then head south via Belgium and Germany. Real autobahns where you can travel safely at high speed. My holidays have become enjoyable again. Stuff France
no1dieselman:
I used to regularly travel through France on holiday, mainly by motorcycle, but sometimes with the family in the car. The last few years has seen the pleasure drained away with the over policing particularly of foreign drivers like myself, even when trying to keep to the speed limits.
I know get the ferry to Zebrugge and then head south via Belgium and Germany. Real autobahns where you can travel safely at high speed. My holidays have become enjoyable again. Stuff France
Your choice, which you are entitled to of course, but not mine. I hate driving in Germany. Not only are the autobahns seriously boring but the comparative difference in speed limits is very dangerous. In a car I only travel, where permitted, at 100, thus 10 more than the wagons, but it feels very unsafe to overtake when some prat is doing up to double that and totally invisible in my mirrors when I start the manoeuvre.
no1dieselman:
I used to regularly travel through France on holiday, mainly by motorcycle, but sometimes with the family in the car. The last few years has seen the pleasure drained away with the over policing particularly of foreign drivers like myself, even when trying to keep to the speed limits.
I know get the ferry to Zebrugge and then head south via Belgium and Germany. Real autobahns where you can travel safely at high speed. My holidays have become enjoyable again. Stuff France
Belgian motorways are underrated arguably some of the quickest in Europe at least at night.The latest run I did on the continent last Summer I came to the conclusion that Belgium hasn’t changed much in that regard.
While ironically the whole length of the autobahn route between Basle and Aachen was just a UK type nightmare of often smart type gantries having obviously recently been put in and mostly posted with a 120 kmh limit for so called ‘emissions’ reasons.Among other similar ridiculous arbitrarily randomly applied limits.
While France was lumbered with the expected silly anti speed crusade which seems to have been ramping up over the previous 15 years.Although to be fair I was expecting to get nicked having,like many others,especially trucks,set off numerous cameras there but heard nothing.While the autoroutes as expected seem to be a bit easier at the right times of day regarding the paramilitary type manned speed trap regime applying on them these days.But the old school regular 120 mph type running speeds on them are now a thing of the past regardless.Being just too risky regarding the massive potential penalties involved if you exceed the wrong arbitrary threshold and get caught.
On that note Spardo seems to be understating the predictable and justified level of defiance often being shown by the French to this regime,especially on the RN’s.Which isn’t surprising assuming they want to get anywhere in a reasonable time and keep the country moving v French distances.
Carryfast:
jakethesnake:
France is a beautiful country and the people are fine as well. Spent many holidays travelling around but keeping away from the toll roads only because they are boring to drive.
A drop in speed limits will not keep the majority away. People like carryfast are your typical Brit. Hates the French. Probably because they know how to stick up for themselves.
I agree France is a beautiful country and I’ve spent many warm continental Summer evenings there and in Italy with like minded car enthusiasts from all over Europe including France.All of us moaning about the ever increasing level of …French speed ‘enforcement’ and our memories of better days.Bearing in mind the ‘limits’ were always more or less there.How does that translate as ‘hating the French’.
Ok I apologise, maybe you are not a French hater but I thought you sounded like one. I am a petrolhead as well but realise most motorists are not capable of driving at speed on public roads as we see from the accident and casuality rate in most countries. Hence they reduce speed limits.
I always say if you want to drive at speed go on a racetrack. The thing is most road drivers are not capable of driving at speed on a track. They are generally useless.
Aren’t amateur speed merchants allowed to take their road cars on the old Nurburgring in Germany? Seems like a good idea.
Spardo:
Aren’t amateur speed merchants allowed to take their road cars on the old Nurburgring in Germany? Seems like a good idea.
Yes, they are. Closer to home, they can also take them on a “track day” on any number of circuits here in UK. The issue being of course that while they are “competing” with mums on the school run and other drivers who really don’t give a toss how fast they can go in their turbonutterGTi (or even a 1.2 Corsa), they can convince themselves they are some sort of driving deity. If they go on a proper track (such as the Nurburgring Nordschleife) they quickly find themselves lapping among folks who actually have a clue (and in many cases have the car as well) that makes our hero look like a total dweeb - and that simply doesn’t cut the savoury condiment…
Roymondo:
Spardo:
Aren’t amateur speed merchants allowed to take their road cars on the old Nurburgring in Germany? Seems like a good idea.
Yes, they are. Closer to home, they can also take them on a “track day” on any number of circuits here in UK. The issue being of course that while they are “competing” with mums on the school run and other drivers who really don’t give a toss how fast they can go in their turbonutterGTi (or even a 1.2 Corsa), they can convince themselves they are some sort of driving deity. If they go on a proper track (such as the Nurburgring Nordschleife) they quickly find themselves lapping among folks who actually have a clue (and in many cases have the car as well) that makes our hero look like a total dweeb - and that simply doesn’t cut the savoury condiment…
Spot on there Roymondo, I have witnessed it plenty times but what always made me laugh was when that German woman drove a transit van (on top gear) round the circuit passing all the amatuers at speed making them look a little foolish.
Not so funny are the number of casualties and fatalities.