Franglais:
Owen/Spardo and anyone, are there any figures showing that having hazardous running slower than everyone else is actually any safer?
I very much doubt it, and in my opinion it is definitely more dangerous, encouraging desperate overtaking activity. Also I see little difference in the potential disaster of a hazardous wagon crashing at 80 rather than 90.
I do recognise that we can’t all travel at the same speed, the unhappy situation on the N10 for lorry drivers demonstrates that, but to have such widely differing speed limits is very dangerous. Which is why I hate German motorways in particular, and all motorways in general.
BTW Franglais, re overtaking hazardous at 80, I was referring to car drivers on single track roads, not wagons on duals, and I assume your avoidance of the N10 is as a lorry driver. As, now, a car driver I love it. Apart from those frequent 90 limits, it is bliss for us with the vast majority of heavies obeying the no overtaking rule. But as I sail past between Poitiers and Bordeaux, as I frequently do these days, I do have great sympathy for my erstwhile colleagues and only console myself with the thought that at least they are saving a mountain of money. 
As Spardo above,I am now a car driver on the N10 sympathising with my former lgv comrades.I used to do as they now do in my truck.It is shorter than the A10 and toll free.Plus there are several truck stops/restaurants.In my day,unlike now,lorries could overtake.Nowadays there are 3 shortish 90kph sections where I have found I can drive through at 60mph without getting flashed.
All the radars, types and placements are listed on this handy site .
radars.securite-routiere. gouv .fr
Faark France. Every time I’ve been everywhere is always closed, the lazy barstewards even close restaurants for fricking lunch! It rains a lot more than people think and it used to be cheap but now everything costs the same or more than here.
DaveyCrocket:
Faark France. Every time I’ve been everywhere is always closed, the lazy barstewards even close restaurants for fricking lunch! It rains a lot more than people think and it used to be cheap but now everything costs the same or more than here.
“Everything costs more”?
Nah. Only one thing costs more than before: the Euro.
[emoji6]
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Franglais:
DaveyCrocket:
Faark France. Every time I’ve been everywhere is always closed, the lazy barstewards even close restaurants for fricking lunch! It rains a lot more than people think and it used to be cheap but now everything costs the same or more than here.
“Everything costs more”?
Nah. Only one thing costs more than before: the Euro.
[emoji6]
Dead right, and as regards lunchtime closures, I wonder where I have been lunching then for half my life, if they were all closed. 
Wrong country DC, that was a joke always told about Russia, not France. 
I never said that all restaurants closed for lunch, silly - it’s just something I’ve seen.
The trouble with the Internet is that so many people immediately get their ■■■■■■■ in a bunch when they see something that they don’t agree with. Have a great day.
Oh how things have changed in France, the roads used to be very good, the routes national allowed a similarly fast journey to the often deserted autoroutes with the added bonus of a decent scoff along the way, if you kept within the limits in the towns, you got no bother from les flics and if you did get a pull, a FF20 note saw you on your way in no time.
Last time I went, the RNs were littered with ridiculous off camber roundabouts, the straight bits had stupid traffic calming measures all over the place and there seemed to be a gendarme hiding behind every other bush with a radar gun.
None of this will save any lives as the main reason they crash is because half of them couldn’t drive a greasy stick up a dog’s arse and the other half are ■■■■■■■
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DaveyCrocket:
I never said that all restaurants closed for lunch, silly - it’s just something I’ve seen.
The trouble with the Internet is that so many people immediately get their ■■■■■■■ in a bunch when they see something that they don’t agree with. Have a great day.
You didn’t say some either, but what I am saying is, none close at lunchtime. That would be
silly
I have to agree with newmercman.All my driving in France nowadays is in my car.What used to be good national roads are now littered with "traffic management"devices particularly the numerous roundabouts which have to be negotiated at 10mph even in a car.What with that and the new 80kph limit(which I doubt will save a life)I think it’s a plan to use the ffs ideas into pushing traffic onto the toll roads.
What intrigues me is the French have always eaten between 1200-1400 and 2000 -2200.24 hour eating(Brit style)is at best frowned upon as a rule.They’ll probably grumble if you ask for a jambon beurre baguette at 1430.How night drivers get on,I don’t know.There are very few 24 hour facilities.Even motorways only serve through the petrol station hatch after 2200hrs.A small toilet alcove in a dark corner may be open but these are frequently infested by hitch hikers,would be asylum seekers or general reprobates.
newmercman:
Oh how things have changed in France, the roads used to be very good, the routes national allowed a similarly fast journey to the often deserted autoroutes with the added bonus of a decent scoff along the way, if you kept within the limits in the towns, you got no bother from les flics and if you did get a pull, a FF20 note saw you on your way in no time.
Last time I went, the RNs were littered with ridiculous off camber roundabouts, the straight bits had stupid traffic calming measures all over the place and there seemed to be a gendarme hiding behind every other bush with a radar gun.
None of this will save any lives as the main reason they crash is because half of them couldn’t drive a greasy stick up a dog’s arse and the other half are ■■■■■■■
^ This.
Having recently returned from my Le Mans and Swiss road trip ( tnet fact finding mission 
) I can report that it’s worse much worse than I’d even thought.It’s not just the 80 kmh NSL for RN’s.It’s also the 110 and 90 and 70 kmh limits thrown into the mix on a random ( deliberate ) basis in road and traffic conditions you wouldn’t believe.Also 30 kmh limits through some towns.There are speed cameras which flash in your face at night when trucks often running at the old usually accepted speeds ( let’s say more than 90 kmh with a similar attitude to speed limiter calibration as speed limits ) set them off like Christmas trees blinding you.Or also possibly front facing ones like our Truvelo type are,which is another valuable French addition to road safety.In which case,having stupidly decided to ditch my autoroutes only rule for the run from Le Mans to Swiss,my bank account is toast if they decide to take advantage of the recently imposed fourth reich type cross border reg data facility.They also don’t even seem to know the meaning of the 10% + 2 kmh let alone mph rule for the camera calibrations.
However that isn’t the worst part.Imagine after then behaving myself in Switzerland ( probably because,unlike France,at least the limits and their enforcement more or less reflect road and traffic conditions and the smaller distances ) I then found most of the German autobahn run from Basle to Aachen,which I’d been so looking forward too again,subject to an obviously recently imposed bleedin 120 kmh limit. Ironically also most of even the new expensive three lane upgrades which took ages to finish causing loads of inconvenience and all for what.With bridges draped in propaganda banners which Goebells would have been proud of telling us that it’s all for our own good,unlike France,the excuse based on exhaust emissions in this case. 
.Ironically all round as usual I found the night time Belgian motorways best.Although even in that case I’m expecting an envelope with a demand for cash with menaces for a slight argument between what I thought was a reasonable speed through non ‘roadworks’ v a camera obviously set to the actual 70 kmh limit.
So there we have it where the Americans have at least gone in the right direction from a blanket 55 mph limit to 85 mph the bleedin Frogs and Krauts etc have gone in the total opposite direction from a reasonable loosely applied if not non existent speed regime to something along the lines of 1980’s America.With the difference that also includes cameras not just state troopers.
To which I found myself thinking of the old Maddonna record this used to be my playground.
Carryfast:
They also don’t even seem to know the meaning of the 10% + 2 kmh let alone mph rule for the camera calibrations.
It isn’t 10% + 2 of anything. Also you get flashed if the camera detects you exceeding the posted limit and then your 5 or 6 km/hr allowance is knocked off by the computer later and you don’t get to hear about it. It doesn’t work out the margin of error on the spot.
Anyway, I am so glad you are back in Blighty now and we can all breath a little bit easier here and I can do my trip to Beauvais and Reims next week in safety.
As Gidders says, it looks like the French are really trying to discourage the use of the old RNs, specially where there is an autoroute running parallel or within a reasonable distance.
I noticed over the years how they’re renumbering the RNs to D numbers, and not even keeping the same number along the route, so a 300 mile stretch of national road will now have 3 or 4 D numbers which can make it harder to navigate.
I don’t know if the French government get any of the toll money from autoroutes but it seems like there’s some sort of agenda here.
GORDON 50:
As Gidders says, it looks like the French are really trying to discourage the use of the old RNs, specially where there is an autoroute running parallel or within a reasonable distance.
I noticed over the years how they’re renumbering the RNs to D numbers, and not even keeping the same number along the route, so a 300 mile stretch of national road will now have 3 or 4 D numbers which can make it harder to navigate.
.
You are right on both counts, and the first count suits me fine. I will trade the lower limit for more open roads anytime. 
But not sure it will work, bearing in mind the long HGV convoys still on the N10 and the fact that so many drivers take no notice of the limits anyway.
But your 2nd point has been a real bugbear of mine for years. Pre-planning is so much more time consuming and I can’t believe that there wasn’t a better way of doing it. It must have cost a fortune re-plating all those roads when all they had to do was mass produce a load of identical little square Ds and bolt them onto the old N route signs. We would then still be able to navigate over long distances and the government would have saved a packet. Something similar was done east of Marseille on the old N7 although that was left to the 2 departements involved and they each chose a slightly diffrent format.
Yeah they seem to have renumbered a lot of roads, I was playing around on google maps trying to retrace my steps down the old roads in France and none of it made any sense, I used to be able to do it with my eyes closed, now I’d need to be staring at a map all the way as I assume the downgrading of roads like the RN6 means the signs will all be pointing towards the autoroute where you’re a captive audience for a wallet emptying session avec le gendarmes.
Such a shame, not just for those of us that enjoy a good run on an open road, but also for the small towns that earned a living from passing trade, mind you, with the French being French, they’re probably happier now they don’t have to go to the trouble of putting your money in their till.
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Spardo:
Carryfast:
They also don’t even seem to know the meaning of the 10% + 2 kmh let alone mph rule for the camera calibrations.
It isn’t 10% + 2 of anything. Also you get flashed if the camera detects you exceeding the posted limit and then your 5 or 6 km/hr allowance is knocked off by the computer later and you don’t get to hear about it. It doesn’t work out the margin of error on the spot.
Anyway, I am so glad you are back in Blighty now and we can all breath a little bit easier here and I can do my trip to Beauvais and Reims next week in safety.
Firstly I was thinking more in terms of a bigger tolerance than just 5-6 kmh if/when they’ve actually got me.So I’m probably toast but zb em at least we’re not ( yet ) at the point of cross border licence penalties.
As for Beauvais to Rheims.You should try Rouen to Chartres let alone Moulins to Chalon or Macon without exceeding any of the ridiculous limits what a zb joke. Or the stupid limits before Mulhouse to Basle which by then I was bored enough not to bother and already in the required Swiss limits mindset.
Anyway highlight of the trip was seeing a German driving a top spec obviously limiter delete X5 in a 120 kmh autobahn limit who’d obviously voted with his right foot on the emisssions issue by doubling it and then adding considerably more.In addition to few others all equally obviously not seeming to be too worried about the law.So all might not be lost yet for a run to the Imola classic races in October when hopefully I’ll have the Jag’s knackered rusty brake pipes finished rather than the hire car I had to use for this run being a Vauxhall Mokka 1.4 turbo which to its credit put up a very credible show for its engine size and enough to probably end up with the speeding fines exceeding the fuel bill. Unlike the Jag possibly could even with 165 mph to play with.
newmercman:
Yeah they seem to have renumbered a lot of roads, I was playing around on google maps trying to retrace my steps down the old roads in France and none of it made any sense, I used to be able to do it with my eyes closed, now I’d need to be staring at a map all the way as I assume the downgrading of roads like the RN6 means the signs will all be pointing towards the autoroute where you’re a captive audience for a wallet emptying session avec le gendarmes.
On balance there’s probably relatively still less enforcement on the autoroutes and 130 kmh or a real world 90 mph is still better than getting seriously nicked for doing 70 - 80 mph on a single carriageway and it’s the auto route operators who’ll benefit by any switch because of that.But from what I saw not much has changed regarding traffic still using the N/D roads and there is still some old school RN numbering around like the N 79 etc that I used.While it’s the cameras more than the Gendarmes that will get you on those roads.As opposed to gendarmes on the auto routes at least using the cover of night time running and there’s probably more cameras on the RN/D routes than the auto routes.So my theory is firstly more an attempt to disincentivise the use of all Euro roads for fast long distance travel.To the benefit of the fast rail operators and switching what traffic remains from non motorway routes to the peages to the obvious benefit of the auto route operators.
Also with a win win for the car hire firms and short haul air travel operators.The former seeming to also be proved by the impossibility of renting seriously quick cars for Euro travel and only for use within the country of rental which seems bleedin pointless.
IE it’s easy to see big corporate corruption being behind all this simply by the old question who gains from this.Added to by the inconsistency in the French claiming that it’s all about ‘safety’ while the Germans are claiming that it’s supposedly all about emissions.No surprise that the greedy scumbags behind it all know that ze Germans would obviously suss the ‘safety’ excuse.
Which leaves the question as to what made the Americans rightly decide that the old double nickel limit was unfit for purpose and replaced it in many cases with a higher limit than the official French auto route limit.Let alone increasingly obviously the German autobahn network. Even sometimes in the case of single carriageways ?. 
Carryfast:
Also with a win win for the car hire firms and short haul air travel operators.The former seeming to also be proved by the impossibility of renting seriously quick cars for Euro travel and only for use within the country of rental which seems bleedin pointless.
:
Not pointless for them, if you are saying that you rented the car in France. They know that you will be discouraged from illegal speeding.
And if you did rent in France then all your fines will find their way back to you via the card you presumably paid with and according to the tiny print which says they will be entitled to debit your card for all speeding fines recieved by them.
Perhaps you rented your less than seriously quick Vauxhall from an English firm, in which case you may be alright. Until you get stopped on your next trip of course, at which point they may put 2 and 2 together and make hundreds.
Well I’ve been stuck within DK for the past 7 years and just about to start something involving export journeys, reading this really makes me think why the hell bother, very sad as I used to love crossing France, think the world’s gone mad. No wonder few want to get involved with the job anymore.
Spardo:
Carryfast:
Also with a win win for the car hire firms and short haul air travel operators.The former seeming to also be proved by the impossibility of renting seriously quick cars for Euro travel and only for use within the country of rental which seems bleedin pointless.
:
Not pointless for them, if you are saying that you rented the car in France. They know that you will be discouraged from illegal speeding.
And if you did rent in France then all your fines will find their way back to you via the card you presumably paid with and according to the tiny print which says they will be entitled to debit your card for all speeding fines recieved by them.
Perhaps you rented your less than seriously quick Vauxhall from an English firm, in which case you may be alright. Until you get stopped on your next trip of course, at which point they may put 2 and 2 together and make hundreds.
No it was a Brit rental car.I obviously wouldn’t be stupid enough to defeat the object of the convenience of using the same car from home for a trip to France and Switzerland and then home again.As opposed to having to use and pay for a taxi to the station or airport then unload my luggage then cart it through the station or airport and pay for the train fare or air fare then cart myself and the luggage to/from the station or airport terminal to/from the car hire centre.Then pay for the car hire.Then do it all again for the trip to Swiss and then home again.It’s easy to see why the greedy zb’s are all co operating so as not to tread on each others’ toes and have to put up some serious obstacles to disincentivise the former method and which puts into perspective the far lesser advantage for the autoroute operators in all this corrupt corporate inspired bs.
As for not being able to rent a quick car,or even in some cases any car at all,in the UK for Euro use but you can rent whatever you like in France etc for French etc use how does that supposedly discourage fast driving in France ?. 
When it’s obvious that the whole scam is a you scratch our back we’ll scratch yours going on between the fast rail or short haul air operators and big car hire firms.With a bit of a win win bonus for the autoroute operators and hotel trade resulting from pushing traffic off the free to use RN’s and the need for more overnight stops required to cover an equivalent distance.Which as I said totally defeats the object of old school fast European Grand Touring and the type of cars and design speeds which made/make it possible.The design speeds of auroroutes autobahns and to an extent RN’s being all about facilitating that type of travel.But which obviously doesn’t suit the greedy agenda of the big corporate players among the air and rail transport industries and car hire fleets and their cronies in government making up the rules to suit themselves and using bs cover stories to divert public attention.Being so blatant that they can’t even get those stories right as in the contradiction as shown between the reasons given by ze Germans v the French for it.