Roymondo:
Why would you even want to do Spain in one hit? You’re supposed to be on holiday, not taking part in some sort of endurance competition!
Admirable sentiments, which I agree with. 
Now, all we have to do is convert all of those who work a full day on a Friday, have dinner at home, and then drive their families through the night to their holiday destinations. The summer weekend bans for trucks may be awkward, but at least we`re prevented from playing with the overtired drivers out there.
Roymondo:
Why would you even want to do Spain in one hit? You’re supposed to be on holiday, not taking part in some sort of endurance competition!
You do know that we aren’t talking about a trip to Devon or Cornwall from London or Birmingham using the M3/A30 or the M5 etc in this case.By that logic France could remove and degrade a massive amount of its road network.While there’s certainly no point in paying a fortune to use motorways designed for crossing France in one hit if you’re then going to apply UK type speeds to them and all the resulting extra unnecessary travelling time and over night hotel stop costs.
It’s also obvious that the draconian speed regime being applied to non motorway roads has more to do with creating a disincentive,to those potentially avoiding the autoroutes on the basis that might as well use the RN’s/D roads.Than now pay to go not much quicker,under recent enforcement levels,also sometimes over a less direct route.Bearing in mind that the non motorway routes effectively allowed for a realistic 70 mph + speed regime outside built up areas.
I’m sure that many of the the French themselves will be making the same type of protests regarding this silly speed regime.With it only being the previously relaxed levels of enforcement making what were always unrealistic speed limits,bearing in mind road and traffic conditions and the distances involved there,viable.
Franglais:
Roymondo:
Why would you even want to do Spain in one hit? You’re supposed to be on holiday, not taking part in some sort of endurance competition!
Admirable sentiments, which I agree with.
Now, all we have to do is convert all of those who work a full day on a Friday, have dinner at home, and then drive their families through the night to their holiday destinations.
More like slower speeds will actually create more of that type of situation.Rather than them having to take the extra days out their holiday entitlement,if they can even get it,to allow for all the extra travelling time in both directions.Bearing in mind that forcing more people onto the auto routes will create more congestion and therefore lower average speeds on those.IE the same distance needing to be covered at lower speeds than previously.With no increase in holiday entitlement or holiday budgets and alternative non motorway routes effectively being unviable,what could possibly go wrong. 
Oooer, three days in Bordeaux next, I’d better be careful …
Paul
I’m well aware of what we’re talking about TVM. It’s what I do every year - I (and whichever family members are in the car) enjoy the journey just as much as the destination. It’s all part of the holiday. If you want to jump straight to the destination then go on a plane. Cheaper, and you get to enjoy the company of all those other travellers too.
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Roymondo:
I’m well aware of what we’re talking about TVM. It’s what I do every year - I (and whichever family members are in the car) enjoy the journey just as much as the destination. It’s all part of the holiday. If you want to jump straight to the destination then go on a plane. Cheaper, and you get to enjoy the company of all those other travellers too.
Blimey what if someone hates planes and trains and who’s idea of ‘enjoying the journey’ means driving a quick car across Europe and prefers to maximise the time spent in the Alps and Sardinia for example and enjoys the sea crossing on the Med to get there and back and only has 10-15 days max holiday entitlement available to do it ?.While using the rest of the valuable time for other assorted long European trips to race events through the year.
IE driving a decent car at 50-80 mph max and needlessly using up valuable holiday entitlement to go bimbling through the boring oceans of fields across France and paying for the privilege in the form of autoroute tolls and/or unnecessary hotel stops.On roads designed to get you where you’re going fast with plenty of provision for overtaking those who don’t agree,just isn’t some people’s idea of fun. 
Spardo:
Also to Peirre, I wonder if my Garmin will do the same, probably some places and not others, as it sometimes does now by ignoring recent local changes.
Im not sure, i only stumbled across the changes to tomtom when I plugged my TT truck into my pc.
I hope Garmin do include the changes in their quarterly map updates, but till then I’m still able to load the speed camera database from pocket gps world onto my motorcycle Garmin
peirre:
Spardo:
Also to Peirre, I wonder if my Garmin will do the same, probably some places and not others, as it sometimes does now by ignoring recent local changes.
Im not sure, i only stumbled across the changes to tomtom when I plugged my TT truck into my pc.
I hope Garmin do include the changes in their quarterly map updates, but till then I’m still able to load the speed camera database from pocket gps world onto my motorcycle Garmin
When I first bought the Garmin, some years ago now, it advised updating immediately via the laptop, which I did. it chugged away for half a day before revealing that it had done nothing.
So, I don’t bother now and have learned to not pay too much attention to its local speed limit advice. I rely on observation of the signs.
Having said that, first trip out of the immediate area today and the one 90 sign is still that, 90. No others to check they all seem to be delimit signs, be it 30, 50 or 70.
As I said, ok for me, but I wonder if they could legally prosecute somebody who has passed a 90 sign. Not everybody has a computer, or French TV/radio or reads newspapers. Hmm.
peirre:
Spardo:
Also to Peirre, I wonder if my Garmin will do the same, probably some places and not others, as it sometimes does now by ignoring recent local changes.
Im not sure, i only stumbled across the changes to tomtom when I plugged my TT truck into my pc.
I hope Garmin do include the changes in their quarterly map updates, but till then I’m still able to load the speed camera database from pocket gps world onto my motorcycle Garmin
Remembering as a law abiding “motard” to disable any radar warnings you have, of course.
[emoji6]
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Spardo:
peirre:
Spardo:
Also to Peirre, I wonder if my Garmin will do the same, probably some places and not others, as it sometimes does now by ignoring recent local changes.
Im not sure, i only stumbled across the changes to tomtom when I plugged my TT truck into my pc.
I hope Garmin do include the changes in their quarterly map updates, but till then I’m still able to load the speed camera database from pocket gps world onto my motorcycle Garmin
When I first bought the Garmin, some years ago now, it advised updating immediately via the laptop, which I did. it chugged away for half a day before revealing that it had done nothing.
So, I don’t bother now and have learned to not pay too much attention to its local speed limit advice. I rely on observation of the signs.
Having said that, first trip out of the immediate area today and the one 90 sign is still that, 90. No others to check they all seem to be delimit signs, be it 30, 50 or 70.
As I said, ok for me, but I wonder if they could legally prosecute somebody who has passed a 90 sign. Not everybody has a computer, or French TV/radio or reads newspapers. Hmm.
Many years back one driver said
“When I started in Europe it was 8hrs a day driving and 8 hrs off at night. They haven’t written telling me that it’s changed, so I’ll keep on doing it”.
Didn’t convince anyone he was right.
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Carryfast:
Like on autoroutes it’s the silly level of enforcement and penalties like custodial sentencing and confiscation of vehicles which has changed and which is the problem.Not the ridiculous unrealistic limits regardless of this latest ridiculous reduction from the already ridiculous 90 kmh.I haven’t bothered with going to Le Mans in recent years partly for that reason but even more sadly probably also won’t bother with going to the Le Mans Classic either.In addition to rarely using French roads even as through routes let alone staying in France.The choice between avoiding the place or paying a fortune in tolls for the privilege of getting seriously nicked on motorways designed for 120 mph + is bad enough.Let alone the zbwits who are running the French government now also hitting drivers using the non motorway routes.Such ridiculous speed enforcement just defeats the object of using a road network which was/is designed for crossing France at reasonable speeds.
No doubt the aim in large part being to force more people onto the silly fast TGV rail services which are just a big accident waiting to happen.
My attitude is stuff em let the cycling loons takeover the French roads and see how much revenue that those peasants will bring in for the place.While the ones using vehicles are not even capable of driving their under powered over loaded motor homes at the draconian French limits anyway so no revenue raising potential for Macron’s muppet regime there either.With the lose lose that the ■■■■■■ Frogs driving their equally under powered Euro zb boxes will still be having head on crashes at a combined speed of 100 mph instead of 120 mph +.
I take it that is a typo and you mean Kilometres per hour and not miles?
120 MPH belongs on a racetrack, not on public roads whatever standard of construction they might be. The average driver is scarely safe at 60 MPH.
I drove from Bordeaux yesterday via Poitiers,Tours,Rouen to Calais.The tedium of the 80kph stretches was intense although I saw no unusual gendarme activity.It will probably be worse on a working day.
To be honest I tend to drive one hit from Caen leaving around 1600 to arrive Alicante around 0900.I’ve seen plenty of French countryside over the years.Good sleep on the ferry then my 20 years on nights kicks in.Madam can kip on the back seat.
cav551:
Carryfast:
The choice between avoiding the place or paying a fortune in tolls for the privilege of getting seriously nicked on motorways designed for 120 mph + is bad enough.
I take it that is a typo and you mean Kilometres per hour and not miles?
120 MPH belongs on a racetrack, not on public roads whatever standard of construction they might be. The average driver is scarely safe at 60 MPH.
Firstly you do know that I wasn’t referring to it being a compulsory minimum speed of 120 mph for anyone who doesn’t want to nor doing it in traffic.Although if someone isn’t capable of handling more than 60 mph then they obviously shouldn’t be using autoroutes or possibly even be driving at all.As for 100 mph + only belonging on a race track it happens all the time on German motorways which are of a far lesser standard than French ones.
youtube.com/watch?v=RaiDPBgTkUM
Here’s a clue he wasn’t lane hogging at 1.58-2.11 and proof that 140 + is a lot safer than someone who doesn’t know the meaning of forward planning and observation and a lot safer than the antics that you’ll see on the average typical section of pointless Brit ‘smart motorway’.Also better than someone veering across the carriageway having been sent into unconsciousness by a combination of boredom and too many unnecessary hours spent plodding along at silly low speeds for the road and traffic conditions.
As for your obvious wish for a UK type speed regime in traffic conditions and on roads like this.All to cater for the lowest denominator of dumbed down Brit style driving standards,in the form of Brit ‘smart motorway’ type speeds and the obvious misapprehension that my references to 100 mph + German type motorway speeds applies everywhere regardless of road and traffic conditions.No doubt that will be Macron’s next move after making the non motorway routes there an unviable liability.
google.co.uk/maps/@46.679913 … 312!8i6656
Although look on the bright side at least you’ve made me review my decision not to go the Le Mans probably with a day or two in Switzerland after at the end of the week.I’ll stay off the RN’s and just settle for at worse the small fine if they can even be bothered to nick anyone running at 90 mph on the autoroutes and at least that’s still better than the UK speed regime will be for the run to Newhaven and back from Dover. 
In which case if only I had my old 60’s tech Triumph 2.5 which would have been perfect for that type of speed regime and a lot simpler to work on.You know designed in the days before the UK 70 mph limit but when a ton was still considered as being quick enough.
Christ, I agree with Carryfast. French autoroutes could cope with much much higher speeds and they are not only better than Germany they are the best in Europe. BUT, I wouldn’t want derestricted sections a la German autobahns as it would require truck overtaking bans, as they have in Germany, which is a hateful place to drive a truck!
switchlogic:
Christ, I agree with Carryfast. French autoroutes could cope with much much higher speeds and they are not only better than Germany they are the best in Europe. BUT, I wouldn’t want derestricted sections a la German autobahns as it would require truck overtaking bans, as they have in Germany, which is a hateful place to drive a truck!
Just the old school combination of common sense enforcement was ok.IE if there’s the typical French traffic free stretches of road with endless visibilty then just let everyone who chooses to get on with it.If there’s traffic or other hazards then the French limits are as relevant now as they always were.I always saw the French autoroute limit it as just a type of stricter version of the German ‘advisory’ 130 kmh in that regard.But so long as it was kept for the right places it was virtually carte blanche and not that much different to Germany.
While now it’s turned into a sort of US enforcement type nightmare reportedly up to an including military type tactics of Les Flics dressed in camo gear hiding in the roadside undergrowth with laser speed detection kit and radios linked to hidden chase units.Or riot squads waiting to pounce at the tolls with some seriously nasty penalties for running at old school type speeds there. 
Anyway I’ll put up with it for the run to Le Mans and plenty of time for a run over to the Rhine Falls which is one place I’ve not got to so far and probably a trip to Grindelwald/Interlaken which is one of my favourite parts of Europe and somewhere I never get bored with.All without upsetting the French let alone the Swiss law.
While I won’t mention the numbers which will hopefully still be allowed on the stretches on the run back through Germany.Although it still seemed ok in that regard here and what an impressive motor that is the way it picks up speed and no kittens were harmed during the fliming.Although Cav and Macron obviously won’t like it. 
youtube.com/watch?v=3dwBrCO3Qi4 19.11-19.30
That U tube video shows the camera car having to brake because a car, which is unable to see his approach at the start of its manoeuvre, pulls out in front of him while travelling approximately 50 mph more slowly than he is moving. However he is doing 144 mph (200ft/sec) when this happens. We have enough trouble in this country with speed differentials of 20 to 30 mph with vehicles travelling at half his speed.
cav551:
That U tube video shows the camera car having to brake because a car, which is unable to see his approach at the start of its manoeuvre, pulls out in front of him while travelling approximately 50 mph more slowly than he is moving. However he is doing 144 mph (200ft/sec) when this happens. We have enough trouble in this country with speed differentials of 20 to 30 mph with vehicles travelling at half his speed.
The relevant bit is that he’d obviously anticipated it just like he’d anticipated the issue of much slower traffic in lane 1 through the unsighted left hand sweeper so stayed in lane 2.Although admittedly in an ideal world he’d have been shedding more speed sooner when he saw the vehicles grouped in lane 1 ahead.Which was my point and how it was in France for decades in the rare event of finding traffic bunched together in lane 1.
As opposed to an American style speed crusade which was proven to result in higher casualties,than those on German motorways,caused by dumbed down and bored into a trance drivers who thought that crashing from 55-65 mph type speeds won’t hurt.
As for the UK strange how the potential issue of high speed differentials suddenly conveniently disappears in the case of hard shoulder running v broken down vehicles.While it’s more likely that bunching,caused by all lanes running at similar speeds and tailgating muppets and low speed differentials and dumbed down drivers.All have the potential to cause more carnage,in the form of side swipes and dumbed down drivers running into slow or stopped traffic,than Fritz taking a few calculated liberties on his own turf.
Bearing in mind that,like the old French regime,it’s based on the idea of yes you can run at high speeds in the right places.But if you were/are considered to be driving dangerously through being involved in a collision then even those parts of the German motorway system not officially subject to speed restrictions to date,still wouldn’t be any defence.While the French just made that a bit clearer in the form of official limits combined with relaxed enforcement.While the Germans chose an ‘advisory’ motorway limit.With the French method obviously also being applied to non motorway roads.
As I said it’s my guess that the French will get fed up with such a ridiculous enforcement regime before the Brits do.Just like the Americans did in the case of strictly enforced blanket 55 and 65 mph limits.
The Prime minister has said that the reduction in speed limits is a 2 year trial with the aim of saving 400 lives a year ……….we shall see . As a tanker driver with limits of 70 and 80 k its not ideal. Always too much queueing traffic behind and desperate to overtake - usually to turn off soon after - One has to have a very Zeno zen attitude - after all its not long to the next routiers for breakfast,coffee,lunch,appero.coffee,tea etc .
OwenMoney:
The Prime minister has said that the reduction in speed limits is a 2 year trial with the aim of saving 400 lives a year ……….we shall see . As a tanker driver with limits of 70 and 80 k its not ideal. Always too much queueing traffic behind and desperate to overtake - usually to turn off soon after - One has to have a very Zeno zen attitude - after all its not long to the next routiers for breakfast,coffee,lunch,appero.coffee,tea etc .
Not saying I agree with the reduction Owen, but one of the things you cite as ‘not being ideal’, the bringing of everybody down to your (as a tanker driver) speed limits may well be a contribution to road safety if the opinion of many is correct that difference in speed limits is dangerous.
As I say I don’t agree with the action, because maybe it will only serve to criminalise the law-abiding drivers who inadvertently stray over the limit, while at the same time may not deter the myriad of drivers who now deliberately flout the 90 limit.
Because of that it may even increase road deaths by creating even more frustration amongst a section of the driving public who at the moment are more patient. For example, a lorry doing 80 at the moment, can be passed without exceeding the limit by a car doing 90. Not always easy, I know, but there are stretches of road with good enough visibilty for this. This won’t be possible now.
Owen/Spardo and anyone, are there any figures showing that having hazardous running slower than everyone else is actually any safer? As you say the silly manoeuvres from some trucks to get past a haz load is frightening. Partly because of that I hate and avoid the N10 Poitiers to Bx. Full of trucks avoiding tolls but wanting to travel at 100kph. Horrible road now.
And I don’t think Carryfast will see enforcement relaxed soon, it’s a voluntary tax on motorists from all countries. Those in the UK who never see a traffic cop would have their eyes opened in most Euro countries. If holidaymakers ir truck drivers want to help fund the Gendarmerie they have plenty of opportunities to donate!
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