So how is Stobarts paying a tax free daily meal allowance of £15 in order to bump up their hourly rate on this basis? I don’t think that they have to put receipts in.
the maoster:
SteveBarnsleytrucker:
So just chuck in a couple of those cheap microwave meals at a couple of quid to keep the Wayne Kerrs happy.
You could do that Steve, but as EB has pointed out buying them on a Saturday for the coming week is a no no, buying them whilst you are actually away at work is what they are wanting.
Yeah that’s what I meant pal.
UKtramp:
So how is Stobarts paying a tax free daily meal allowance of £15 in order to bump up their hourly rate on this basis? I don’t think that they have to put receipts in.
They won’t be doing it for much longer mate (Unless their drivers are stupid enough to start spending £15 per day on junk food and then their wages are REALLY crap 
)
Guys, I believe you are all getting hung up about this the wrong way, if you read the excerpt, it states that the employer must provide check for proof to HMRC if they require it, to “prove” that the driver was in fact away overnight, if you have another way to prove the driver is away from home overnight, I’m pretty sure that would suffice, ie, I fly down from Scotland on a Monday and work staying outbased for two weeks before flying back for the weekend, I’m pretty sure that kind of arrangement would tell them I am actually away in the truck and not going home at night, anyways, it’s your employers responsibility, so why worry, until he tells you otherwise, if he is going to muck about with the night out money, I’ll be the first to jack it, no more nights out.
Sapper
So basically all you guys who spend half your lives living in lay bys counting down the minutes to re.start rather than get your arses out of your cabs, will be hit hardest. 
All I’ll have to do is adapt, so rather than have 2 pub meal nights and 2 in cab meal nights as I do now, is change to 4 pub meal nights (with receipts) so basically …■■■■ em ! 
I wonder if tracker data (for those with it fitted of course) or even the weeks job sheets would appease the HMRC, the receipt malarkey sounds like the shiny arses trying to implement their usual tracking and accountability systems to unusual circumstances, which very rarely achieves anything other than [zb]ing things up for the boots on the ground blokes.
And since when has ‘Meal Allowance’ and ‘Night out money’ been the same [zb]ing thing??
sapper:
Guys, I believe you are all getting hung up about this the wrong way, if you read the excerpt, it states that the employer must provide check for proof to HMRC if they require it, to “prove” that the driver was in fact away overnight, if you have another way to prove the driver is away from home overnight, I’m pretty sure that would suffice, ie, I fly down from Scotland on a Monday and work staying outbased for two weeks before flying back for the weekend, I’m pretty sure that kind of arrangement would tell them I am actually away in the truck and not going home at night, anyways, it’s your employers responsibility, so why worry, until he tells you otherwise, if he is going to muck about with the night out money, I’ll be the first to jack it, no more nights out.Sapper
Yes, that is how the Tax people explained it to me…
HMRC will carry out random checks. The company has to prove the driver was on a legitimate night out. There is no change from a driver’s point of view, other than providing receipts for anything they claim for.
Tracker reports can be used, but bear in mind some trackers only give 3 months of data
Reef:
And since when has ‘Meal Allowance’ and ‘Night out money’ been the same [zb]ing thing??
That’s not what this about bud. What HMRC are saying is that they will require proof of away from home expenditure if they do a spot check. Could be food receipts, could be cinema tickets, could be a receipt for a shower you’ve had to pay for.
Anyone know if the girls in Doncaster carry receipt books?
Darkside:
Tracker reports can be used, but bear in mind some trackers only give 3 months of data
Then the onus should be on the employer that he keeps backups or printouts of that tracker data.
As far as I can see it the HMRC are coming down on employers who’ve been trying to fiddle the system a bit to get better tax returns, HMRC have come up with this bandaid ill thought out fix that unfortunately now puts the onus on the driver to prove he/she was indeed worthy of a night out payment, unfortunately for the driver the only way to prove this is that he/she then has to spend that night out money to satisfy the HMRC that your gaffer does indeed deserve the tax rebate, so you effectively have to treat your night out allowance as a meal allowance, which it is not, it is reimbursement for the inconvenience of being away from your loved ones and sleeping in a tin box with next to no basic amenities.
As far as I’m concerned the driver should not need to justify the night out allowance the employer should have to prove the payment was legitimate and the HMRC should come up with a better way of ensuring that claim is legitimate.
Reef:
Darkside:
Tracker reports can be used, but bear in mind some trackers only give 3 months of dataThen the onus should be on the employer that he keeps backups or printouts of that tracker data.
As far as I can see it the HMRC are coming down on employers who’ve been trying to fiddle the system a bit to get better tax returns, HMRC have come up with this bandaid ill thought out fix that unfortunately now puts the onus on the driver to prove he/she was indeed worthy of a night out payment, unfortunately for the driver the only way to prove this is that he/she then has to spend that night out money to satisfy the HMRC that your gaffer does indeed deserve the tax rebate, so you effectively have to treat your night out allowance as a meal allowance, which it is not, it is reimbursement for the inconvenience of being away from your loved ones and sleeping in a tin box with next to no basic amenities.
As far as I’m concerned the driver should not need to justify the night out allowance the employer should have to prove the payment was legitimate and the HMRC should come up with a better way of ensuring that claim is legitimate.
No mate, the night out money is untouched. The onus IS on the employer.
the maoster:
Reef:
And since when has ‘Meal Allowance’ and ‘Night out money’ been the same [zb]ing thing??That’s not what this about bud. What HMRC are saying is that they will require proof of away from home expenditure if they do a spot check. Could be food receipts, could be cinema tickets, could be a receipt for a shower you’ve had to pay for.
Anyone know if the girls in Doncaster carry receipt books?
So you don’t need to justify the whole £15 - £20 - or whatever your full night out rate is per night then?
If that’s the case I’ll just buy a Mars bar in Clacket lane or wherever and hand that receipt in then
Darkside:
No mate, the night out money is untouched. The onus IS on the employer.
Yes but you still have to provide the receipts is what I was getting at.
These rules came in April, so I would suggest if you have seen no difference so far you won’t…
As I’m not driving atm I certainly haven’t seen any changes, but it doesn’t stop me being concerned for when I return to tramping early next year
Reef:
And since when has ‘Meal Allowance’ and ‘Night out money’ been the same [zb]ing thing??
Because they are both supposed to be tax free what ever you want to call it. The £15 tax free meal allowance is no different to night out money except that the meal allowance is added to a day drivers money, they are both legitimate expenses, if you tax one then you have to tax the other. Otherwise your night out money will change its label to tax free meal allowance!!
UKtramp:
The £15 tax free meal allowance is no different to night out money
Well with the firms I’ve worked for you either had a meal allowance of say £5 tagged onto your night out money and day drivers also had the £5 but obviously no night out money, (night drivers would get a night shift allowance in addition to their meal allowance) or we just had night out money and nobody got a meal allowance, I’ve not worked for a firm that gave the same ‘allowance’ to a day driver and a tramper because that would be grossly unfair!
Reef:
UKtramp:
The £15 tax free meal allowance is no different to night out moneyWell with the firms I’ve worked for you either had a meal allowance of say £5 tagged onto your night out money and day drivers also had the £5 but obviously no night out money, (night drivers would get a night shift allowance in addition to their meal allowance) or we just had night out money and nobody got a meal allowance, I’ve not worked for a firm that gave the same ‘allowance’ to a day driver and a tramper because that would be grossly unfair!
That is what Stobart do, they pay a low basic wage to the day drivers but give them a £15 per day tax free meal allowance which they then add on to their hourly rate to bump it up to an additional £75 per week tax fee. If they can do this then you can simply call the night out money a meal allowance.
And it’s probably that ■■■■■■■ company that is partly if not wholly the reason HMRC got onto the whole night out money thing in the first place, one more case of the blue chips [zb]ing the job up for everyone else!
Reef:
And it’s probably that [zb] company that is partly if not wholly the reason HMRC got onto the whole night out money thing in the first place, one more case of the blue chips [zb]ing the job up for everyone else!
I agree but it is still a fact of them doing this.
Brilliant , the brother inlaw who works for the same company at the same depot as the op was only telling me how he was earning £££&£&£££££ the other week , and now we’ve got one of there drivers roaring there eyes out over a few £ per week .