There was talk on here a while back about HMRC wanting to tax night out payments. I did my usual thing and ignored it in the hope it would go away. Alas no, we’ve now been asked to provide any receipts we can and stick them with our expense sheets. We currently receive £25 per n/o. Does anyone have any definitive answers on this that I can take back to the management?
In the meantime I’ll be the one going through MSA bins looking for discarded receipts.
I remember being told ‘night out money’ was going to be taxable back in the mid eighties when it was about £14 a night…I couldn’t afford one of those tax evasion lawyers at the time. 
Edit: I think I was over ambitious in stating £14 n/o money, it was £12. 
■■■■ disgraceful, …we are obviously begrudged the pittance that we get for nighting out (or sleeping in our tin boxes as the daymen on here say 
) they must think we are making too much. 
Hey, maybe they’re trying to recoup some of the money embezzled off the rest of us by the MP’s expenses. rather than actually punish those ■■■■ s
You couldn’t make it up eh 
My pittance is even lower than yours…£22.50, (£7.50 less than I was on 10 yrs ago 
) so I wonder what the cut off point amount is before they can get their thieving hands on it. 
Iirc there was a article on commercial motors website a week or two back with the outcome on this. Might be worth a quick look.
I’d bet a weeks wages it’s a comeback for many putting backdated claims in a couple of years ago for meals, parking and equipment used where many were getting cheques back for a couple of grand…remember that?
These bastds don’t like being taken on by the lower classes and plebs such as us, and if we dare we are punished directly, or in this case indirectly. 
That is why you’ll get months inside for crimes like theft or assault, and years inside for tax fraud and evasion, and screwing the Establishment…to keep the likes of us in our place.
robroy:
[zb] disgraceful, …we are obviously begrudged the pittance that we get for nighting out (or sleeping in our tin boxes as the daymen on here say
Hey, maybe they’re trying to recoup some of the money embezzled off the rest of us by the MP’s expenses. rather than actually punish those [zb] s
You couldn’t make it up ehMy pittance is even lower than yours…£22.50, (£7.50 less than I was on 10 yrs ago
£22.50 eh Rob? Not any more you’re not
£18 now after tax 
Job’s getting worse by the day.
eagerbeaver:
robroy:
[zb] disgraceful, …we are obviously begrudged the pittance that we get for nighting out (or sleeping in our tin boxes as the daymen on here say
Hey, maybe they’re trying to recoup some of the money embezzled off the rest of us by the MP’s expenses. rather than actually punish those [zb] s
You couldn’t make it up ehMy pittance is even lower than yours…£22.50, (£7.50 less than I was on 10 yrs ago
£22.50 eh Rob? Not any more you’re not
£18 now after tax
Any halfway decent boss will be putting the night out money up to compensate for it being taxed, I would hope.
A.
Right, give me some slack here, I aint an accountant so these views are maybe simplistic, wrong or both, but more than likely stupid.
Your night out money is classed as expenses for subsistence is it not?
The operative word being ‘expenses’…ie money you have spent to support yourself while away.
Now that money has already been taxed once when you received it in your wage.
So they give you it back in your entitlement to ‘expenses’ but now take more tax off it although it has already been taxed, so you are taxed twice on the SAME money.
In theory if your expenses are say the SAME tenner used every week (to make it simple), that you keep getting back, it will eventually be taxed until you are left with zero.
How is and how can that be right?..or ethical.
As I said I aint an accountant I drive an artic, so if that comes across as a bloody stupid question I apologise.
£26.50 I believe to be the limit before Night Out allowance is taxed.
Only difference now is that companies may have to prove to the HMRC that the driver actually had a night out, and wasn’t paid say £25 tax free when he was at home.
I don’t think this will affect drivers as long as keep all your receipts. The onus seems to have come down on the companies to prove that the driver was away from home.
Rob your £22.50 is safe as long as you are actually away from home, and don’t get it if you were at home…
Darkside:
£26.50 I believe to be the limit before Night Out allowance is taxed.Only difference now is that companies may have to prove to the HMRC that the driver actually had a night out, and wasn’t paid say £25 tax free when he was at home.
I don’t think this will affect drivers as long as keep all your receipts. The onus seems to have come down on the companies to prove that the driver was away from home.
Rob your £22.50 is safe as long as you are actually away from home, and don’t get it if you were at home…
I’ve never been given a receipt for sleeping.
A.
Darkside:
£26.50 I believe to be the limit before Night Out allowance is taxed.Only difference now is that companies may have to prove to the HMRC that the driver actually had a night out, and wasn’t paid say £25 tax free when he was at home.
I don’t think this will affect drivers as long as keep all your receipts. The onus seems to have come down on the companies to prove that the driver was away from home.
Rob your £22.50 is safe as long as you are actually away from home, and don’t get it if you were at home…
Problem is though, most of the lads are not spending £25 a night.
They already have their wagons kitted out and sticking a pre prepared meal in your microwave costs next to nothing. This night out money in the VAST majority of cases is being used to pad out wages, so drivers who are not spending it will lose out.
(Unless as The Maoster intends, get rooting in bins ) I’m not sure that proving that you nighted out maybe with a tracker print out for example will do, HMRC want to see that £25 or whatever spent in the course of being out
eagerbeaver:
Darkside:
£26.50 I believe to be the limit before Night Out allowance is taxed.Only difference now is that companies may have to prove to the HMRC that the driver actually had a night out, and wasn’t paid say £25 tax free when he was at home.
I don’t think this will affect drivers as long as keep all your receipts. The onus seems to have come down on the companies to prove that the driver was away from home.
Rob your £22.50 is safe as long as you are actually away from home, and don’t get it if you were at home…
Problem is though, most of the lads are not spending £25 a night.
They already have their wagons kitted out and sticking a pre prepared meal in your microwave costs next to nothing. This night out money in the VAST majority of cases is being used to pad out wages, so drivers who are not spending it will lose out.
(Unless as The Maoster intends, get rooting in bins
No the actual allowance isn’t touched.
However any other payments (parking, meals, showers etc) that would be paid on top of the night out money MUST have receipts.
Basically it would stop a driver being given say £70 a day in wages and £50 expenses to make the money up.
Darkside:
eagerbeaver:
Darkside:
£26.50 I believe to be the limit before Night Out allowance is taxed.Only difference now is that companies may have to prove to the HMRC that the driver actually had a night out, and wasn’t paid say £25 tax free when he was at home.
I don’t think this will affect drivers as long as keep all your receipts. The onus seems to have come down on the companies to prove that the driver was away from home.
Rob your £22.50 is safe as long as you are actually away from home, and don’t get it if you were at home…
Problem is though, most of the lads are not spending £25 a night.
They already have their wagons kitted out and sticking a pre prepared meal in your microwave costs next to nothing. This night out money in the VAST majority of cases is being used to pad out wages, so drivers who are not spending it will lose out.
(Unless as The Maoster intends, get rooting in bins
No the actual allowance isn’t touched.
However any other payments (parking, meals, showers etc) that would be paid on top of the night out money MUST have receipts.
Basically it would stop a driver being given say £70 a day in wages and £50 expenses to make the money up.
Well in that case, what’s everyone flapping about?
eagerbeaver:
Darkside:
eagerbeaver:
Darkside:
£26.50 I believe to be the limit before Night Out allowance is taxed.Only difference now is that companies may have to prove to the HMRC that the driver actually had a night out, and wasn’t paid say £25 tax free when he was at home.
I don’t think this will affect drivers as long as keep all your receipts. The onus seems to have come down on the companies to prove that the driver was away from home.
Rob your £22.50 is safe as long as you are actually away from home, and don’t get it if you were at home…
Problem is though, most of the lads are not spending £25 a night.
They already have their wagons kitted out and sticking a pre prepared meal in your microwave costs next to nothing. This night out money in the VAST majority of cases is being used to pad out wages, so drivers who are not spending it will lose out.
(Unless as The Maoster intends, get rooting in bins
No the actual allowance isn’t touched.
However any other payments (parking, meals, showers etc) that would be paid on top of the night out money MUST have receipts.
Basically it would stop a driver being given say £70 a day in wages and £50 expenses to make the money up.
Well in that case, what’s everyone flapping about?
No idea. To be honest it affects the employers more because they run the risk of the HMRC rocking up, and making the company justify why they paid a driver for a night out.
Stobarts give a daily £15 tax free meal allowance to bump up their hourly rate. Would they have to now provide receipts for this too. Not sure about moaster going through bins at an MSA for receipts, I can see drivers now scavenging through the bins for food at this rate. The £25 night out money is really sufferance pay for living away from home and is used to live on, shouldn’t be affected but any additional expenses will require a receipt, which is an acceptable thing to have to do. We all say tramping, the night out money does not form any part of the wage structure, but the reality of it is that it does because if we did not get it or we had to have receipts to get it, then I would not see the benefit of tramping as opposed to day work.
£26.20 - guidance was finally put on HMRC correctly a few weeks back
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66205
It might be easier to read here through
rha.uk.net/getmedia/49464a7 … e.pdf.aspx
eagerbeaver:
Darkside:
£26.50 I believe to be the limit before Night Out allowance is taxed.Only difference now is that companies may have to prove to the HMRC that the driver actually had a night out, and wasn’t paid say £25 tax free when he was at home.
I don’t think this will affect drivers as long as keep all your receipts. The onus seems to have come down on the companies to prove that the driver was away from home.
Rob your £22.50 is safe as long as you are actually away from home, and don’t get it if you were at home…
Problem is though, most of the lads are not spending £25 a night.
They already have their wagons kitted out and sticking a pre prepared meal in your microwave costs next to nothing. This night out money in the VAST majority of cases is being used to pad out wages, so drivers who are not spending it will lose out.
(Unless as The Maoster intends, get rooting in bins
Cheers Darkside for putting my mind at rest.
It aint so much the couple of quid they were maybe going to get their grubby little germans on, it was the principle…I’d rather hoy it, or give it to charity than to those Roger Hunts.
If it is the case,.and for those of us who sometimes do cab cook,…would a till roll from Tescos with ready meals and/or ingredients on, not do the job?
robroy:
If it is the case,.and for those of us who sometimes do cab cook,…would a till roll from Tescos with ready meals and/or ingredients on, not do the job?
yes providing those ingredients were for cab cooking, if you tried receipts for flour and baking ingredients then no.
robroy:
eagerbeaver:
Darkside:
£26.50 I believe to be the limit before Night Out allowance is taxed.Only difference now is that companies may have to prove to the HMRC that the driver actually had a night out, and wasn’t paid say £25 tax free when he was at home.
I don’t think this will affect drivers as long as keep all your receipts. The onus seems to have come down on the companies to prove that the driver was away from home.
Rob your £22.50 is safe as long as you are actually away from home, and don’t get it if you were at home…
Problem is though, most of the lads are not spending £25 a night.
They already have their wagons kitted out and sticking a pre prepared meal in your microwave costs next to nothing. This night out money in the VAST majority of cases is being used to pad out wages, so drivers who are not spending it will lose out.
(Unless as The Maoster intends, get rooting in bins
Cheers Darkside for putting my mind at rest.
It aint so much the couple of quid they were maybe going to get their grubby little germans on, it was the principle…I’d rather hoy it, or give it to charity than to those Roger Hunts.If it is the case,.and for those of us who sometimes do cab cook,…would a till roll from Tescos with ready meals and/or ingredients on, not do the job?
I reckon that would be worth investigating, though whether you would have to prove what meal you used on what night I don’t know.
Looks like you are wrong Darkside from these RHA guidelines.
A checking system must be in place from the employer, and for example any receipts from the driver for food must be scrutinised and be found to be dated/timed AFTER the journey in question has taken place. The full £26.20 DOES NOT have to be accounted for if an approval is in place, but it basically means that if you as a driver get asked by your employer to provide receipts for food as part of a ’ random ’ sample on a particular date, if you haven’t had a Harvester or KFC, Burger King etc then you are deemed to be taking the ■■■■.
So my point still stands. Maoster by the sounds of it needs to start providing weekly receipts for his nights out. Unless he starts becoming a fat 2at and eating KFC/BK/McD every night with receipts to prove, he will start getting taxed HMRC are not even interested in your food shop for your forthcoming work week for cooking in the cab. It HAS to be a dictionary definition of a ’ meal ’ purchased after the start of a journey with receipt to prove
I can see this is yet another thin end of the wedge because most of these larger transport outfits get a massive hard-on regarding ’ Audits ’ and ’ Conformity ’ etc…
Bad times en route for our tramping Brothers me thinks