1973 , first year of option of 8LXB in a Big J . Gardner provide Guy with 270 power units . For 40 8LXB s , this would be just under 15 % of total engine figure .
1974 298 engines supplied , for 40 to be 8LXB , this would equal 13.4 % of engines supplied
1975 395 engines supplied , for 40 to be 8LXB , this would equal 10 % of engines supplied .
Perhaps more interesting is the lower figures supplied to Seddon in all years , yet there is no question the 8LXB was fitted in these units . 8LXB powered Seddons must have been another rare combination , albeit de-rated powerwise .
Whether there were 40 Big Js having Gardners premium propulsion unit fitted is highly debatable , but looking at the figures I would imagine there was a possibly even smaller no of Seddons so fitted .
I just want to put my own bit of input in to this I worked at J. Stirland of Nottingham along with Ridings another TDG Company we ordered vast number of Seddon Atkinson 400s all Gardner powered our fleet engineer wouldn’t have any other engines fitted as nothing else proved as reliable and as fuel efficient and when SA couldn’t supply the vehicles we went to ERF
I just want to put my own bit of input in to this I worked at J. Stirland of Nottingham along with Ridings another TDG Company we ordered vast number of Seddon Atkinson 400s all Gardner powered our fleet engineer wouldn’t have any other engines fitted as nothing else proved as reliable and as fuel efficient and when SA couldn’t supply the vehicles we went to ERF
Facts beat fantasy every time.
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I know this is a topic about Guys and the legendary 240 Gardner but the ones we ran were indestructible most ran 24 hours a day 6 days a week and did enormous mileage with very little engine trouble
They weren’t the fastest lorries on the road but
they were the most reliable engines we used and they made us the 2nd most profitable company within TDG
I just want to put my own bit of input in to this I worked at J. Stirland of Nottingham along with Ridings another TDG Company we ordered vast number of Seddon Atkinson 400s all Gardner powered our fleet engineer wouldn’t have any other engines fitted as nothing else proved as reliable and as fuel efficient and when SA couldn’t supply the vehicles we went to ERF
Facts beat fantasy every time.
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I know this is a topic about Guys and the legendary 240 Gardner but the ones we ran were indestructible most ran 24 hours a day 6 days a week and did enormous mileage with very little engine trouble
They weren’t the fastest lorries on the road but
they were the most reliable engines we used and they made us the 2nd most profitable company within TDG
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That’s exactly what Bewick seems to have thought too.But then he seems to be saying that there’d have been no sense in putting an 8 LXB in a Big J when you could put a ■■■■■■■ in it instead.
Just a comment on Seddon’s relationship with Gardner. The vast majority of Gardner’s lorry building customers had been buying engines from Patricroft since the early 1930s and the first LWs. Seddon came much later to the party, in the late 1950s when the 5LW and 6LW became options in tractor units. Seddon did well to get Hugh Gardner to even talk to them, let alone supply them, as at that time Gardner could sell every engine it made to its established customer base. Possibly with Seddon being a local company to Gardner might have been a factor. Also Seddon was one of the first, if not the first, British chassis builders to fit ■■■■■■■ engines in ‘off the shelf’ lorries, in its SD4 tractor unit in 1958. Prior to that of course ■■■■■■■ had been used in heavy haulage Scammells etc. and the Wynns re-built Pacifics.
SOM may well have operated 40 8LXB’s,maybe even more,but they were in ERF tractor units and the odd Seddon 32/4 and yes there was maybe even the odd Big J,but 39 8LXB’s,no way ‘jose’,Guy Motors just didn’t feature as a main customer of Gardner particularly after the takeover by Leyland.Leyland Motors via Lord Donald hated Gardner engines and they went out of their way to discourage the fitting of Gardners into Scammells and Guys and as “Saviem” alluded to in his previous post James and Alexander were very canny operators within the United Group and would not have been keen on parting with anymore brass than was necessary,especially at the time when they could buy ■■■■■■■ engined Big J’s for a couple of grand or so less per unit,and lets face it the ■■■■■■■ engines were well up to their task and could do the same work as a big Gardner,and that was supposing that Guy could have even got a “sniff” at obtaining ONE 8LXB,never mind a bulk order for 40! Oh! well the new year has got going again and the thread has received the “kiss of life” roll on 2015 Cheers Bewick.
It’s inconvenient that we’ve been given the Gardner engine order figures for Guy but those figures don’t seem to differentiate engine type.But having said that even you’ve admitted that ‘the odd’ Big J might have had an 8 LXB specced for it on the order.
It’s my guess that the situation might have gone along these lines.
Stokes- why are we still putting these obsolete boat anchors in Guy chassis.
Guy management-don’t ask us it’s what the customer has ordered.
Stokes-these bloody customers haven’t got a clue.
Guy management-we know that but they obviously don’t at least until they’ve bought the odd few and then decide that they should have ordered a ■■■■■■■ in it instead and on that note why are we still wasting money on trying to make our own engines when we can buy better ones from ■■■■■■■ and Rolls and the more we buy the cheaper they’ll let us have them.
Stokes-That’s a coincidence because that lot at Scammell keep telling me the same thing.
In just the same way that SA’s management probably said exactly the same thing about it’s customers ordering Gardner engines in the 400 instead of ■■■■■■■■
Telekonsteve:
I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t and I’m not really bothered but here’s a front view of it off the Dumfries transport page on Facebook,where the photos have come from
There is no-way that these two SOM Big J’s have the 8LXB engine(■■■■■■■ 205/ 220’s yes!),they are too old judging by their reg nos. and their grilles are dead giveaways.And Gardners primary customers,Atkinson,ERF and Foden only got the odd test engine in 71/72 and the engines didn’t appear in any number until 73’ and all three assemblers had many,many more orders for 8LXB engined chassis than they could fulfill so as for Guy Motors,ugh, ugh,they had no chance and it is very doubtful if they ever got more than a handful of 8LXB engines in total,and of course,authentic photographic proof has still to be posted on this prestigeous TN thread No doubt even at this moment there is a devious “Photo Shopper” at work trying to rectify matters in order that the “true believers” can save face. Bewick.
Hello Dennis your quite right there my Dad had the very first ERF A Series fitted with a 240 Gardner he worked for Kinneils Transport of Edinburgh but was based in Nottingham it was pride of place on the ERF stand at the 1972 Kelvin Hall Motor Show
When I see him next week I’ll post a picture on here and a belated Happy New Year to you and keep posting the pictures and stories on here all the best Gary
My Dads paid me his weekly visit from his little retirement bungalow on the Lincolnshire coast
We have had our usual reminisce and a couple of pints to wash away the Gardner fumes and as promised my Dads ERF A series
Telekonsteve:
I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t and I’m not really bothered but here’s a front view of it off the Dumfries transport page on Facebook,where the photos have come from
There is no-way that these two SOM Big J’s have the 8LXB engine(■■■■■■■ 205/ 220’s yes!),they are too old judging by their reg nos. and their grilles are dead giveaways.And Gardners primary customers,Atkinson,ERF and Foden only got the odd test engine in 71/72 and the engines didn’t appear in any number until 73’ and all three assemblers had many,many more orders for 8LXB engined chassis than they could fulfill so as for Guy Motors,ugh, ugh,they had no chance and it is very doubtful if they ever got more than a handful of 8LXB engines in total,and of course,authentic photographic proof has still to be posted on this prestigeous TN thread No doubt even at this moment there is a devious “Photo Shopper” at work trying to rectify matters in order that the “true believers” can save face. Bewick.
Hello Dennis your quite right there my Dad had the very first ERF A Series fitted with a 240 Gardner he worked for Kinneils Transport of Edinburgh but was based in Nottingham it was pride of place on the ERF stand at the 1972 Kelvin Hall Motor Show
When I see him next week I’ll post a picture on here and a belated Happy New Year to you and keep posting the pictures and stories on here all the best Gary
My Dads paid me his weekly visit from his little retirement bungalow on the Lincolnshire coast
We have had our usual reminisce and a couple of pints to wash away the Gardner fumes and as promised my Dads ERF A series 10
Great shots there Gaz,of a real Driver and a class motor,Cheers Dennis.
Hiya…early or what… K reg i think that,s the only k reg i’ve seen. Harrisons where i worked later in the 70,s had SEH 602L
i know they ordered a 240 as soon as the word got out about them, Harrison,s was ERF / Gardner through and through at
one time.
John
Kinneils were big Gardner users I remember as a kid going with my Dad and when he first got that ERF it was the bees knees
It sounded great and I’ve posted before it was the first 240 in Scotland
It was supplied by Bowens of Edinburgh a ERF main agent and was pride of place at the
1972 Kelvin Hall motor show
gazsa401:
Kinneils were big Gardner users I remember as a kid going with my Dad and when he first got that ERF it was the bees knees
It sounded great and I’ve posted before it was the first 240 in Scotland
It was supplied by Bowens of Edinburgh a ERF main agent and was pride of place at the
1972 Kelvin Hall motor show
I realise that this is a Big J 8LXB thread,but as no one has yet “produced the goods” we may as well post some shots of manufactures that did fit the 8 LXB ! However,carrying on with Gazzers shots of his Dad’s motor at Kinneills this is a Milnthorpe depot shot,not a good one,but a great day to take a shot weatherwise.Those are two of our ERF’s we ran at the time,an N reg 8LXB and a “B” Series 8LXB,plus a couple of loaded Scania 81 four wheelers.The “A” Series spent the latter part of it’s operational years on the fleet based at Daventry and running down London and back everyday,it always was 100% reliable and never failed us.The “B” Series ran from Milnthorpe to and from Daventry every night and was one of two “B” Series we had on the same night trunk.
Thanks for your kind words Dennis my Dad taught me well in Road Transport
We even managed to work together for 18 years until I left Stirlands to take up a role at
John Player and Sons (Imperial Tobacco)
Nottingham as permanent afternoon Shunter some 10 years ago
Back to the GUY thread here’s a picture of my Dads GUY Big J4 but it’s got a 180 Gardner
I know,I know,no photo but I’ve just been told that Smith of Maddiston ran a Big J with 240 Gardner out of Wynn’s yard,Albany Road,Newport. Fleet number was GD (Gwent Depot) 1002 and reg number was HMS 634N.And apparently it’s sister GD1003 HMS 635N was 20 mph faster…
Seemed a shame not to keep this thread ticking over…even if it’s only on 4 pots.
Chris Webb:
I know,I know,no photo but I’ve just been told that Smith of Maddiston ran a Big J with 240 Gardner out of Wynn’s yard,Albany Road,Newport. Fleet number was GD (Gwent Depot) 1002 and reg number was HMS 634N.And apparently it’s sister GD1003 HMS 635N was 20 mph faster…
Seemed a shame not to keep this thread ticking over…even if it’s only on 4 pots.
Chris Webb:
I know,I know,no photo but I’ve just been told that Smith of Maddiston ran a Big J with 240 Gardner out of Wynn’s yard,Albany Road,Newport. Fleet number was GD (Gwent Depot) 1002 and reg number was HMS 634N.And apparently it’s sister GD1003 HMS 635N was 20 mph faster…
Seemed a shame not to keep this thread ticking over…even if it’s only on 4 pots.
Another piece of the jigsaw…fleet numbers and registration numbers…it’s only a matter of time now until the definitive proof is provided.
Chris Webb:
I know,I know,no photo but I’ve just been told that Smith of Maddiston ran a Big J with 240 Gardner out of Wynn’s yard,Albany Road,Newport. Fleet number was GD (Gwent Depot) 1002 and reg number was HMS 634N.And apparently it’s sister GD1003 HMS 635N was 20 mph faster…
Seemed a shame not to keep this thread ticking over…even if it’s only on 4 pots.
The plot thickens Anon1.
Or maybe the truth is the Gardner 240 badge might have seemed like it was making a difference when the empty 180 powered one went 20 mph faster up a hill at 30 mph than the loaded 180 powered one.
Chris Webb:
I know,I know,no photo but I’ve just been told that Smith of Maddiston ran a Big J with 240 Gardner out of Wynn’s yard,Albany Road,Newport. Fleet number was GD (Gwent Depot) 1002 and reg number was HMS 634N.And apparently it’s sister GD1003 HMS 635N was 20 mph faster…
Seemed a shame not to keep this thread ticking over…even if it’s only on 4 pots.
The plot thickens Anon1.
Or maybe the truth is the Gardner 240 badge might have seemed like it was making a difference when the empty 180 powered one went 20 mph faster up a hill at 30 mph than the loaded 180 powered one.
Question “CF”,have you just returned home from the “drinker” ■■ Bewick.
Chris Webb:
I know,I know,no photo but I’ve just been told that Smith of Maddiston ran a Big J with 240 Gardner out of Wynn’s yard,Albany Road,Newport. Fleet number was GD (Gwent Depot) 1002 and reg number was HMS 634N.And apparently it’s sister GD1003 HMS 635N was 20 mph faster…
Seemed a shame not to keep this thread ticking over…even if it’s only on 4 pots.
The plot thickens Anon1.
Or maybe the truth is the Gardner 240 badge might have seemed like it was making a difference when the empty 180 powered one went 20 mph faster up a hill at 30 mph than the loaded 180 powered one.
Question “CF”,have you just returned home from the “drinker” ■■ Bewick.
Admittedly I might have over stated the respective speeds referred to there.
Took me ages to find this thread so I could resurrect it. A nice Scottish driver allowed me to post this photo of a Guy Big J. Ok it’s not a side on shot but the two back pots can be clearly seen. I thought maybe it would 'appen calm every bugger down int North West (and another from Co Durham),yer know,the disbelievers.
If this photo doesn’t cure t’problem I’ll be ont neet ferry to Heysham and buy t’Mayor of Morecambe a drink.
Cheers Bewick.
No doubt even at this moment there is a devious “Photo Shopper” at work trying to rectify matters in order that the “true believers” can save face. 
