GUY Big J 8LXB Tractor Unit

240 Gardner:

gingerfold:
Interesting. I wonder why it was de-rated, unless the DB gearbox wouldn’t take the full torque of the 8LXB. Digressing slightly (I do think we should have a Seddon thread one day) Seddon would build ‘one-offs’ and at Mothers Pride Liverpool we had two Motor Panels cabbed Seddons for trunking, coupled to 40 ft single axle trailers, one had a Gardner 6LXB ‘180’, the other had a 6LX ‘150’, - quite an unusal engine spec. at the time in the early '70s.

Yes, it was for exactly that reason. Mind you the DB gearbox struggled with the 220 ■■■■■■■■ never mind the 8LXB!

Similarly, Atkinson built 6LX-engined Borderers for Sainsbury’s as late as 1973 - one is in preservation now.

I’ll second that comment Chris about the 6.600 struggling behind the 220 ■■■■■■■■■■ were unfortunate to run four of them in the Borderers and we had to change the boxes regularly,the many Fuller boxes we had,we never touched.With regards to the Seddon 32/4 8LXB chassis,well I can claim to have seen one,my old Pal Malc Woodhouse Snr.bought one secondhand and ran it on his fleet for a while,and it had the 6.600 box which was the only box that Seddon specc’d for the few they built I believe.

Bewick:

240 Gardner:

gingerfold:
Interesting. I wonder why it was de-rated, unless the DB gearbox wouldn’t take the full torque of the 8LXB. Digressing slightly (I do think we should have a Seddon thread one day) Seddon would build ‘one-offs’ and at Mothers Pride Liverpool we had two Motor Panels cabbed Seddons for trunking, coupled to 40 ft single axle trailers, one had a Gardner 6LXB ‘180’, the other had a 6LX ‘150’, - quite an unusal engine spec. at the time in the early '70s.

Yes, it was for exactly that reason. Mind you the DB gearbox struggled with the 220 ■■■■■■■■ never mind the 8LXB!

Similarly, Atkinson built 6LX-engined Borderers for Sainsbury’s as late as 1973 - one is in preservation now.

I’ll second that comment Chris about the 6.600 struggling behind the 220 ■■■■■■■■■■ were unfortunate to run four of them in the Borderers and we had to change the boxes regularly,the many Fuller boxes we had,we never touched.With regards to the Seddon 32/4 8LXB chassis,well I can claim to have seen one,my old Pal Malc Woodhouse Snr.bought one secondhand and ran it on his fleet for a while,and it had the 6.600 box which was the only box that Seddon specc’d for the few they built I believe.

Hiya a pal of mine had a 8lxb motorpanels cab seddon with a high roof(it looked like a refuse cart cab)that was downrated. the word was
for fuel consumption.the seddon was well on top of the job for its day.when it was sold it went to Ireland.
just found it

John

Telekonsteve:
I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t and I’m not really bothered but here’s a front view of it off the Dumfries transport page on Facebook,where the photos have come from :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

There is no-way that these two SOM Big J’s have the 8LXB engine(■■■■■■■ 205/ 220’s yes!),they are too old judging by their reg nos. and their grilles are dead giveaways.And Gardners primary customers,Atkinson,ERF and Foden only got the odd test engine in 71/72 and the engines didn’t appear in any number until 73’ and all three assemblers had many,many more orders for 8LXB engined chassis than they could fulfill so as for Guy Motors,ugh, ugh,they had no chance and it is very doubtful if they ever got more than a handful of 8LXB engines in total,and of course,authentic photographic proof has still to be posted on this prestigeous TN thread :wink:No doubt even at this moment there is a devious “Photo Shopper” at work trying to rectify matters in order that the “true believers” can save face. :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: Bewick.

Bewick:

Telekonsteve:
I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t and I’m not really bothered but here’s a front view of it off the Dumfries transport page on Facebook,where the photos have come from :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

There is no-way that these two SOM Big J’s have the 8LXB engine(■■■■■■■ 205/ 220’s yes!),they are too old judging by their reg nos. and their grilles are dead giveaways.And Gardners primary customers,Atkinson,ERF and Foden only got the odd test engine in 71/72 and the engines didn’t appear in any number until 73’ and all three assemblers had many,many more orders for 8LXB engined chassis than they could fulfill so as for Guy Motors,ugh, ugh,they had no chance and it is very doubtful if they ever got more than a handful of 8LXB engines in total,and of course,authentic photographic proof has still to be posted on this prestigeous TN thread :wink:No doubt even at this moment there is a devious “Photo Shopper” at work trying to rectify matters in order that the “true believers” can save face. :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: Bewick.

FOOD for thought

Bewick:

Telekonsteve:
I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t and I’m not really bothered but here’s a front view of it off the Dumfries transport page on Facebook,where the photos have come from :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

There is no-way that these two SOM Big J’s have the 8LXB engine(■■■■■■■ 205/ 220’s yes!),they are too old judging by their reg nos. and their grilles are dead giveaways.And Gardners primary customers,Atkinson,ERF and Foden only got the odd test engine in 71/72 and the engines didn’t appear in any number until 73’ and all three assemblers had many,many more orders for 8LXB engined chassis than they could fulfill so as for Guy Motors,ugh, ugh,they had no chance and it is very doubtful if they ever got more than a handful of 8LXB engines in total,and of course,authentic photographic proof has still to be posted on this prestigeous TN thread :wink:No doubt even at this moment there is a devious “Photo Shopper” at work trying to rectify matters in order that the “true believers” can save face. :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: Bewick.

Hello Dennis your quite right there my Dad had the very first ERF A Series fitted with a 240 Gardner he worked for Kinneils Transport of Edinburgh but was based in Nottingham it was pride of place on the ERF stand at the 1972 Kelvin Hall Motor Show
When I see him next week I’ll post a picture on here and a belated Happy New Year to you and keep posting the pictures and stories on here all the best Gary

When I posted “Food for Thought” I was trying to include all the Gardner engine sales data for the relevant chassis assemblers in the period in question but for some reason I’m unable to upload the PDF. All that work for nothing… :confused: :confused: :confused:

gingerfold:
When I posted “Food for Thought” I was trying to include all the Gardner engine sales data for the relevant chassis assemblers in the period in question but for some reason I’m unable to upload the PDF. All that work for nothing… :confused: :confused: :confused:

Have you tried " copy and paste " it if it will not upload
cheers Johnnie

gingerfold:
When I posted “Food for Thought” I was trying to include all the Gardner engine sales data for the relevant chassis assemblers in the period in question but for some reason I’m unable to upload the PDF. All that work for nothing… :confused: :confused: :confused:

The forum does not allow .pdf’s to be attached to posts. All you can do is to screen-grab each page (Ctrl & Print Screen. Key at the top right, six keys in, on mine) then crop the unnecessary fluff off the edges with Paint or similar. Save the pages as .jpg’s and you can then attach them to your post. More work, I’m afraid, but with certain success as the incentive! :smiley:

gazsa401:

Bewick:

Telekonsteve:
I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t and I’m not really bothered but here’s a front view of it off the Dumfries transport page on Facebook,where the photos have come from :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

There is no-way that these two SOM Big J’s have the 8LXB engine(■■■■■■■ 205/ 220’s yes!),they are too old judging by their reg nos. and their grilles are dead giveaways.And Gardners primary customers,Atkinson,ERF and Foden only got the odd test engine in 71/72 and the engines didn’t appear in any number until 73’ and all three assemblers had many,many more orders for 8LXB engined chassis than they could fulfill so as for Guy Motors,ugh, ugh,they had no chance and it is very doubtful if they ever got more than a handful of 8LXB engines in total,and of course,authentic photographic proof has still to be posted on this prestigeous TN thread :wink:No doubt even at this moment there is a devious “Photo Shopper” at work trying to rectify matters in order that the “true believers” can save face. :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: Bewick.

Hello Dennis your quite right there my Dad had the very first ERF A Series fitted with a 240 Gardner he worked for Kinneils Transport of Edinburgh but was based in Nottingham it was pride of place on the ERF stand at the 1972 Kelvin Hall Motor Show
When I see him next week I’ll post a picture on here and a belated Happy New Year to you and keep posting the pictures and stories on here all the best Gary

Hiya Gaz,Happy New year to you !! Why I can recall clearly when the first 8LXB’s entered service was at the same time I bought my third new Borderer and first 220 ■■■■■■■ engine OJM480L in late '72,this motor had the Fuller 610 box and Eaton drive axle but I converted the axle to two speed ! So the motor had,litrally,20 gears and I kid you not this motor could “walk” past 8LXB’s and the first 8spd F88’s on the M/way grades and leave them “deed” on the flat :wink: This did not go down well with one or two 8LXB drivers,I’ve had the odd one rush over on the Services and take a close look at our Atky after I’d pished all ower him back down the way!!,highly amusing I can tell you.I think some of the 8LXB Borderers could have had that 8speed David Brown box fitted,I assume that the 8LXB ERF "A"Series used the Fuller 9509,we had a '74 N reg IIRC and it had the 9509 box.Happy days ! Cheers Dennis.

Bewick:

gazsa401:

Bewick:

Telekonsteve:
I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t and I’m not really bothered but here’s a front view of it off the Dumfries transport page on Facebook,where the photos have come from :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

There is no-way that these two SOM Big J’s have the 8LXB engine(■■■■■■■ 205/ 220’s yes!),they are too old judging by their reg nos. and their grilles are dead giveaways.And Gardners primary customers,Atkinson,ERF and Foden only got the odd test engine in 71/72 and the engines didn’t appear in any number until 73’ and all three assemblers had many,many more orders for 8LXB engined chassis than they could fulfill so as for Guy Motors,ugh, ugh,they had no chance and it is very doubtful if they ever got more than a handful of 8LXB engines in total,and of course,authentic photographic proof has still to be posted on this prestigeous TN thread :wink:No doubt even at this moment there is a devious “Photo Shopper” at work trying to rectify matters in order that the “true believers” can save face. :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: Bewick.

Hello Dennis your quite right there my Dad had the very first ERF A Series fitted with a 240 Gardner he worked for Kinneils Transport of Edinburgh but was based in Nottingham it was pride of place on the ERF stand at the 1972 Kelvin Hall Motor Show
When I see him next week I’ll post a picture on here and a belated Happy New Year to you and keep posting the pictures and stories on here all the best Gary

Hiya Gaz,Happy New year to you !! Why I can recall clearly when the first 8LXB’s entered service was at the same time I bought my third new Borderer and first 220 ■■■■■■■ engine OJM480L in late '72,this motor had the Fuller 610 box and Eaton drive axle but I converted the axle to two speed ! So the motor had,litrally,20 gears and I kid you not this motor could “walk” past 8LXB’s and the first 8spd F88’s on the M/way grades and leave them “deed” on the flat :wink: This did not go down well with one or two 8LXB drivers,I’ve had the odd one rush over on the Services and take a close look at our Atky after I’d pished all ower him back down the way!!,highly amusing I can tell you.I think some of the 8LXB Borderers could have had that 8speed David Brown box fitted,I assume that the 8LXB ERF "A"Series used the Fuller 9509,we had a '74 N reg IIRC and it had the 9509 box.Happy days ! Cheers Dennis.

Blimey Bewick next you’ll be saying no one with any sense would have ordered a Big J with one of those boat anchor Gardners in it anyway even if they could have had one. :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing:

Bewick:

gazsa401:

Bewick:

Telekonsteve:
I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t and I’m not really bothered but here’s a front view of it off the Dumfries transport page on Facebook,where the photos have come from :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

There is no-way that these two SOM Big J’s have the 8LXB engine(■■■■■■■ 205/ 220’s yes!),they are too old judging by their reg nos. and their grilles are dead giveaways.And Gardners primary customers,Atkinson,ERF and Foden only got the odd test engine in 71/72 and the engines didn’t appear in any number until 73’ and all three assemblers had many,many more orders for 8LXB engined chassis than they could fulfill so as for Guy Motors,ugh, ugh,they had no chance and it is very doubtful if they ever got more than a handful of 8LXB engines in total,and of course,authentic photographic proof has still to be posted on this prestigeous TN thread :wink:No doubt even at this moment there is a devious “Photo Shopper” at work trying to rectify matters in order that the “true believers” can save face. :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: Bewick.

Hello Dennis your quite right there my Dad had the very first ERF A Series fitted with a 240 Gardner he worked for Kinneils Transport of Edinburgh but was based in Nottingham it was pride of place on the ERF stand at the 1972 Kelvin Hall Motor Show
When I see him next week I’ll post a picture on here and a belated Happy New Year to you and keep posting the pictures and stories on here all the best Gary

Hiya Gaz,Happy New year to you !! Why I can recall clearly when the first 8LXB’s entered service was at the same time I bought my third new Borderer and first 220 ■■■■■■■ engine OJM480L in late '72,this motor had the Fuller 610 box and Eaton drive axle but I converted the axle to two speed ! So the motor had,litrally,20 gears and I kid you not this motor could “walk” past 8LXB’s and the first 8spd F88’s on the M/way grades and leave them “deed” on the flat :wink: This did not go down well with one or two 8LXB drivers,I’ve had the odd one rush over on the Services and take a close look at our Atky after I’d pished all ower him back down the way!!,highly amusing I can tell you.I think some of the 8LXB Borderers could have had that 8speed David Brown box fitted,I assume that the 8LXB ERF "A"Series used the Fuller 9509,we had a '74 N reg IIRC and it had the 9509 box.Happy days ! Cheers Dennis.

Thanks again Dennis for that I can recall it had a 4 over 4 fitted it pulled well I can remember it would leave the Scania 110s for dead that Kinneils ran
My Dad got caught speeding on the A1 at Londonderry doing 74 it was a flyer
Cheers Gary

Apologies if this is a bit messy in presentation, but I’ve had to write it in manually instead of uploading the tabulated format

GARDNER ENGINE SALES TO MAIN CHASSIS ASSMBLER CUSTOMER

ATKINSON ERF FODEN GUY SEDDON SCAMMELL TOTAL TOTAL FACTORY SALES
1970 - 883 1219 870 522 247 120 3861 5707
1971 - 1036 1283 902 525 373 98 4217 6189
1972 - 877 1164 1004 680 221 70 4016 5680
1973 - 424 586 521 270 129 45 1975 2937
1974 - 475 733 581 298 247 10 2434 3479
1975 - 525 875 527 395 271 0 2593 3868

NOTE: The difference between total factory output sales figures and lorry chassis assembler sales is the PSV market (mainly Daimler and Bristol) about 70% of the difference, the other 30% being industrial, marine, and railway motive power engines.

NOTE: The Seddon figures include Seddon PSV chassis, - Gardner powered buses supplied to mainly SELNEC in Greater Manchester.

After the 1973 strike sales never recovered to pre-strike levels, plus the market was changing rapidly. Later, towards the end of the '70s decade factory output did get back to almost 5,0000 engines per year for a couple of years, thereafter a very rapid decline in sales and output.

Gardner and Atkinson management never had a harmonious business relationship. Each perceived the other as arrogant and Hugh Gardner deliberately rationed engine supplies to Atkinson for many years when sales to other chassis builders were buoyant and the factory could sell every engine it could make, with a lengthy waiting list.

Evening Gentlemen…bobs along this old thread, does it not?

Bit like me today, you see one of my fields has a little brook running through it, nothing spectacular, in summer a pleasant little water course meandering through beautiful water meadow at the bottom of the hill on which our nearest village stands. But now, swollen with copious rain, she is a fearsome torrent, running at about 5000 gallons a minute, backing up, and spilling over the meadow land from the bridge carrying the road into the village, and already by early this morning creeping over the gardens of the houses that should never have been built on its banks…but they were!

How so? Well we common agricoles are now forbidden to dredge, or clear the watercourses on our land by those Enviroment Agency chappies, for fear we disturb the wildlife that we have lived with since Noah`s time. The net result, the water courses are shallow, even more so the bridge holes, so the watercourse cannot carry the volume of water, and it spills out everywhere.

Thus this fair morning, (an easy day for me), I popped the old HyMac up onto the low loader, and myself and Mr Deere set off on a rescue mission! Now both the Hy Mac and me are “mature”, but those old girls are great to work with, and you can really get a move on, digging wise. I thoroughly enjoyed myself, and good work was done, and the water is flowing where it should, not where it was going to go.

Feeling happy, I was just chaining my old girl down, then into the glow of Mr Deeres beacons hove two white council vans…and a silver Mr Enviroment Shogun. A rather aimless conversation ensued, the two old boys from the Highways totally understood what I had done…less so the well educated teenager in the smart green fleece! One of our new “executive” villagers had telephoned every one available, to report an elderly man vandalising the “village amenity stream” B…r me, …I own the B…y ground. Quite upset me it did, I can tell you.

But to get to the point in question…when I am working my old mind wanders, and I got to thinking about Guy. They were a flexible lot at Fallings Park,I remember Chris Humphries at Calor Gas telling me about the Big Js adapted by ■■■■■■■ to run on LPG. for Calor. Then of course, when Midlands BRS wanted their Big Js to be fitted with NH290 ■■■■■■■ around 74, wellGuy did it! And no doubt Trev H will confirm their outstanding performance…and prodigious thirst!

I wonder just how much an 8LXB Big J would have cost back in its day? For J&A Smith were canny with their pounds,and the 70s were a time of hyper inflation,(I seem to remember seeing chassis price rises circ 30% over a two year period), and as a bench mark I recall that in 72, a Big J 6LXB was about 6.6k, and by 74 must have been around 9k! So what price an 8LXB?

The outfit that I appraised in 74, (mainly for the Highway Superlightweight trailer), was registered PWG48M, and was without doubt 8LXB powered.( Perhaps an ex J&A Smith man may confirm this). No Gentlemen, it was not a Seddon, although gingerfolds idea does have some attraction. I wonder just how many Seddon tractors they ran?

Dave the Renegade has posted images of MA Evans 8LXB, but I wonder just how rare they were? I expect that 5Valve probably has some idea…but if his hip is like my knee…well that would be the last thing on his mind!

Away to my Bollinger…Im late for my bed, apologies for rambling on…

Cheerio for now.

Don’t sleep too easy in your bed, Saviem. Beware, the EA man cometh! :wink: :unamused:

Oh dear, you’re a marked man now Saviem, not only will you have upset the EA but by showing common sense and a practical ability to sort things out you will now have every Government agency in this blighted land of ours on your case. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Saviem:
Evening Gentlemen…bobs along this old thread, does it not?

Bit like me today, you see one of my fields has a little brook running through it, nothing spectacular, in summer a pleasant little water course meandering through beautiful water meadow at the bottom of the hill on which our nearest village stands. But now, swollen with copious rain, she is a fearsome torrent, running at about 5000 gallons a minute, backing up, and spilling over the meadow land from the bridge carrying the road into the village, and already by early this morning creeping over the gardens of the houses that should never have been built on its banks…but they were!

How so? Well we common agricoles are now forbidden to dredge, or clear the watercourses on our land by those Enviroment Agency chappies, for fear we disturb the wildlife that we have lived with since Noah`s time. The net result, the water courses are shallow, even more so the bridge holes, so the watercourse cannot carry the volume of water, and it spills out everywhere.

Thus this fair morning, (an easy day for me), I popped the old HyMac up onto the low loader, and myself and Mr Deere set off on a rescue mission! Now both the Hy Mac and me are “mature”, but those old girls are great to work with, and you can really get a move on, digging wise. I thoroughly enjoyed myself, and good work was done, and the water is flowing where it should, not where it was going to go.

Feeling happy, I was just chaining my old girl down, then into the glow of Mr Deeres beacons hove two white council vans…and a silver Mr Enviroment Shogun. A rather aimless conversation ensued, the two old boys from the Highways totally understood what I had done…less so the well educated teenager in the smart green fleece! One of our new “executive” villagers had telephoned every one available, to report an elderly man vandalising the “village amenity stream” B…r me, …I own the B…y ground. Quite upset me it did, I can tell you.

But to get to the point in question…when I am working my old mind wanders, and I got to thinking about Guy. They were a flexible lot at Fallings Park,I remember Chris Humphries at Calor Gas telling me about the Big Js adapted by ■■■■■■■ to run on LPG. for Calor. Then of course, when Midlands BRS wanted their Big Js to be fitted with NH290 ■■■■■■■ around 74, wellGuy did it! And no doubt Trev H will confirm their outstanding performance…and prodigious thirst!

I wonder just how much an 8LXB Big J would have cost back in its day? For J&A Smith were canny with their pounds,and the 70s were a time of hyper inflation,(I seem to remember seeing chassis price rises circ 30% over a two year period), and as a bench mark I recall that in 72, a Big J 6LXB was about 6.6k, and by 74 must have been around 9k! So what price an 8LXB?

The outfit that I appraised in 74, (mainly for the Highway Superlightweight trailer), was registered PWG48M, and was without doubt 8LXB powered.( Perhaps an ex J&A Smith man may confirm this). No Gentlemen, it was not a Seddon, although gingerfolds idea does have some attraction. I wonder just how many Seddon tractors they ran?

Dave the Renegade has posted images of MA Evans 8LXB, but I wonder just how rare they were? I expect that 5Valve probably has some idea…but if his hip is like my knee…well that would be the last thing on his mind!

Away to my Bollinger…Im late for my bed, apologies for rambling on…

Cheerio for now.

Forty Guy Big J’s with the 8LXB engine were built John, with SOM having 39 and an oil company in Scotland having the other one, which M A Evens bought off Chaddesley Commercials when it was 6 months old.
Cheers Dave.

Any more bids?

Retired Old ■■■■:
Any more bids?

SOM may well have operated 40 8LXB’s,maybe even more,but they were in ERF tractor units and the odd Seddon 32/4 and yes there was maybe even the odd Big J,but 39 8LXB’s,no way ‘jose’,Guy Motors just didn’t feature as a main customer of Gardner particularly after the takeover by Leyland.Leyland Motors via Lord Donald hated Gardner engines and they went out of their way to discourage the fitting of Gardners into Scammells and Guys and as “Saviem” alluded to in his previous post James and Alexander were very canny operators within the United Group and would not have been keen on parting with anymore brass than was necessary,especially at the time when they could buy ■■■■■■■ engined Big J’s for a couple of grand or so less per unit,and lets face it the ■■■■■■■ engines were well up to their task and could do the same work as a big Gardner,and that was supposing that Guy could have even got a “sniff” at obtaining ONE 8LXB,never mind a bulk order for 40! Oh! well the new year has got going again and the thread has received the “kiss of life” roll on 2015 :unamused: Cheers Bewick.

Bewick:

Retired Old ■■■■:
Any more bids?

SOM may well have operated 40 8LXB’s,maybe even more,but they were in ERF tractor units and the odd Seddon 32/4 and yes there was maybe even the odd Big J,but 39 8LXB’s,no way ‘jose’,Guy Motors just didn’t feature as a main customer of Gardner particularly after the takeover by Leyland.Leyland Motors via Lord Donald hated Gardner engines and they went out of their way to discourage the fitting of Gardners into Scammells and Guys and as “Saviem” alluded to in his previous post James and Alexander were very canny operators within the United Group and would not have been keen on parting with anymore brass than was necessary,especially at the time when they could buy ■■■■■■■ engined Big J’s for a couple of grand or so less per unit,and lets face it the ■■■■■■■ engines were well up to their task and could do the same work as a big Gardner,and that was supposing that Guy could have even got a “sniff” at obtaining ONE 8LXB,never mind a bulk order for 40! Oh! well the new year has got going again and the thread has received the “kiss of life” roll on 2015 :unamused: Cheers Bewick.

It’s inconvenient that we’ve been given the Gardner engine order figures for Guy but those figures don’t seem to differentiate engine type.But having said that even you’ve admitted that ‘the odd’ Big J might have had an 8 LXB specced for it on the order. :open_mouth: :laughing:

It’s my guess that the situation might have gone along these lines.

Stokes- why are we still putting these obsolete boat anchors in Guy chassis.

Guy management-don’t ask us it’s what the customer has ordered.

Stokes-these bloody customers haven’t got a clue.

Guy management-we know that but they obviously don’t at least until they’ve bought the odd few and then decide that they should have ordered a ■■■■■■■ in it instead and on that note why are we still wasting money on trying to make our own engines when we can buy better ones from ■■■■■■■ and Rolls and the more we buy the cheaper they’ll let us have them.

Stokes-That’s a coincidence because that lot at Scammell keep telling me the same thing.

In just the same way that SA’s management probably said exactly the same thing about it’s customers ordering Gardner engines in the 400 instead of ■■■■■■■■ :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing:

Carryfast:

Bewick:

Retired Old ■■■■:
Any more bids?

SOM may well have operated 40 8LXB’s,maybe even more,but they were in ERF tractor units and the odd Seddon 32/4 and yes there was maybe even the odd Big J,but 39 8LXB’s,no way ‘jose’,Guy Motors just didn’t feature as a main customer of Gardner particularly after the takeover by Leyland.Leyland Motors via Lord Donald hated Gardner engines and they went out of their way to discourage the fitting of Gardners into Scammells and Guys and as “Saviem” alluded to in his previous post James and Alexander were very canny operators within the United Group and would not have been keen on parting with anymore brass than was necessary,especially at the time when they could buy ■■■■■■■ engined Big J’s for a couple of grand or so less per unit,and lets face it the ■■■■■■■ engines were well up to their task and could do the same work as a big Gardner,and that was supposing that Guy could have even got a “sniff” at obtaining ONE 8LXB,never mind a bulk order for 40! Oh! well the new year has got going again and the thread has received the “kiss of life” roll on 2015 :unamused: Cheers Bewick.

It’s inconvenient that we’ve been given the Gardner engine order figures for Guy but those figures don’t seem to differentiate engine type.But having said that even you’ve admitted that ‘the odd’ Big J might have had an 8 LXB specced for it on the order. :open_mouth: :laughing:

It’s my guess that the situation might have gone along these lines.

Stokes- why are we still putting these obsolete boat anchors in Guy chassis.

Guy management-don’t ask us it’s what the customer has ordered.

Stokes-these bloody customers haven’t got a clue.

Guy management-we know that but they obviously don’t at least until they’ve bought the odd few and then decide that they should have ordered a ■■■■■■■ in it instead and on that note why are we still wasting money on trying to make our own engines when we can buy better ones from ■■■■■■■ and Rolls and the more we buy the cheaper they’ll let us have them.

Stokes-That’s a coincidence because that lot at Scammell keep telling me the same thing.

In just the same way that SA’s management probably said exactly the same thing about it’s customers ordering Gardner engines in the 400 instead of ■■■■■■■■ :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing:

I just want to put my own bit of input in to this I worked at J. Stirland of Nottingham along with Ridings another TDG Company we ordered vast number of Seddon Atkinson 400s all Gardner powered our fleet engineer wouldn’t have any other engines fitted as nothing else proved as reliable and as fuel efficient and when SA couldn’t supply the vehicles we went to ERF