GUY Big J 8LXB Tractor Unit

[harry_gill]

Retired Old ■■■■:
Saviem, mon brave,
In my day, it was expected that potatoes would all be out of the ground well before the land turned to the quagmire that we are seeing recently. It appears that we are hearing the same old tale year after year from you and your agricultural brethren and, to be perfectly honest, the story is beginning to wear a tiny bit thin.
May I, in what may be perceived as a bit of “Teaching grandma to ■■■■ eggs”, suggest that you move your overpriced, diesel-guzzling technology into the crop in September, as is traditionally the “proper” time, rather than concentrating on running booze trips into Frogland on the pretext of collecting rare vehicles.
I trust that this advice will be accepted in the spirit in which it was intended and that you will seek to improve your performance in future seasons.
Yours sincerely,
Chip Spud.

hiya,

thanks harry, long retired.

[retired_old_fart]

You know where I’m coming from, H. More Bolinger than Maris Piper!!!

[gingerfold]

Casual Observer:
Some interesting posts from Gngerfold & 5th Wheel on previous page .

If , between 1970 & 75 there are 6 years of figures , 2690 engines over a 6 year period ,this equates to an average of 450 Gardner units a year , although , more likely the figure would be expected to be higher in 1970 & dropping off towards 75 . As has been stated many times previously on this thread Guy would have been well down pecking order to receive any 8LXB engines , so if there were 40 produced ,and they were produced in one year this would be approximately 10 % of Guys yearly intake of Gardner products .

The option date from late 73 , ( which would be M registration onwards ) along with the update of cab front ( being longer by about 3 inches ) tie in together and would then allow fitment of an 8LXB . Any fitments prior to cab front update would appear noticeable at once .

On the Guy Motors website it states that around 16000 Guy Big Js were produced . If there were 40 8LXB powered Big Js , this is a tiny 0.25 % , yes , one quarter of one percent of the production run so fitted , so a rare beast it would have been .

Also remember, the lengthy Gardner workforce strike in 1973 coincided with the period in question. Factory output was down by 60% in the strike year (just over 2,300 completed engines) with a knock-on effect the following year. There were also marine versions of the Gardner 8LXB to be catered for. The Guy Big J range production of 16,000 included a sizeable proportion of rigids and lightweight tractor units, so as you rightly remark the Big J 8LXB tractive unit would have been a rarity.

[casual_observer]

Further conjecture , but from above although the engine was offered as an option from late 73 , it would be pretty safe to assume that , as Gardners production was down by 60 % in that year , that any 8LXB powered Big Js ( except for possibly one prototype / test unit ) would not be assembled in that year . That takes us into 1974 ,( where no doubt Gardner would be playing catchup on lost production ) ,again assuming Guy were in the running to get any 8LXB . 1974 also brings announcement of the ERF B series , then 75 the Seddon Atkinson 400 series . Both ERF & Atkinson were greater users of Gardner products than Guy were , so if Guy did manage to get 8LXB power from Gardner , the question of how many and when are of major significance . As the Big J would now be seen as more & more dated against newer products form manufacturers who used a larger no. of Gardner engines , would Gardner have supplied Guy 40 8LXBs when the Big J was now into its final years of production .

If there were less than 40 8LXB powered big Js , then their production % age is even less than the 0.25 % of total Big J production mentioned earlier , talk about needle in a haystack

[240_gardner]

gingerfold:
Saviem,yes the Seddon 32/4 Range with Motor Panels cab. Gardner 8LXB engine option DID exist and was built. There is a photo of one clearly shown in Pat Kennett’s excellent World Truck Series book - Seddon Atkinson. (Again in a moment of stupidity I diosposed of my copy in my clear out 3 years ago) And I did see one of these Seddons “in the flesh” so to speak, with my own eyes. I’m fairly certain the 8LXB was mated to a 9-speed Fuller gearbox and the driveline was completed by Seddon’s 13-tonne hub reduction rear axle. The vision of this interesting lorry is swirling about in the distant and fading mists of my memory and the picture of the livery that keeps materialising is… Smiths of Maddiston.

Graham, the original spec which Seddon published, was for an 8LXB de-rated to 200 bhp, and coupled to a David Brown O6/600 gearbox! Apart from the one photographed at that time, perhaps it’s debatable just how many were actually built like that. I do remember Jameson (of Southampton & Heywood) operating one, and I think there’s been a photo of it on TN somewhere, perhaps the Southampton hauliers thread

[gingerfold]

240 Gardner:

gingerfold:
Saviem,yes the Seddon 32/4 Range with Motor Panels cab. Gardner 8LXB engine option DID exist and was built. There is a photo of one clearly shown in Pat Kennett’s excellent World Truck Series book - Seddon Atkinson. (Again in a moment of stupidity I diosposed of my copy in my clear out 3 years ago) And I did see one of these Seddons “in the flesh” so to speak, with my own eyes. I’m fairly certain the 8LXB was mated to a 9-speed Fuller gearbox and the driveline was completed by Seddon’s 13-tonne hub reduction rear axle. The vision of this interesting lorry is swirling about in the distant and fading mists of my memory and the picture of the livery that keeps materialising is… Smiths of Maddiston.

Graham, the original spec which Seddon published, was for an 8LXB de-rated to 200 bhp, and coupled to a David Brown O6/600 gearbox! Apart from the one photographed at that time, perhaps it’s debatable just how many were actually built like that. I do remember Jameson (of Southampton & Heywood) operating one, and I think there’s been a photo of it on TN somewhere, perhaps the Southampton hauliers thread

Interesting. I wonder why it was de-rated, unless the DB gearbox wouldn’t take the full torque of the 8LXB. Digressing slightly (I do think we should have a Seddon thread one day) Seddon would build ‘one-offs’ and at Mothers Pride Liverpool we had two Motor Panels cabbed Seddons for trunking, coupled to 40 ft single axle trailers, one had a Gardner 6LXB ‘180’, the other had a 6LX ‘150’, - quite an unusal engine spec. at the time in the early '70s.

[5valve]

Good day all. I have had a “chat” to those who were involved in producing Gardner Engine QL’s in the factory. Unfortunately I could not get a definite ‘yes’ to the question. I have a suspicion that Guy did take a small number of 8LXB’s during Big ‘J’ production. The only records I kept show total 8LXB automotive production figures as follows, from 1975 to 1980. 722, 927, 1082, 1014, 837.
At that time my involvement with Guy was with the Guy Victory ‘J’ chassis which were all exported. For Dennis’s benefit the 6LXB engines taken by Guy from 1978 through to 1981 for the Victory ‘J’ chassis were as follows:- 474, 651, 974, 1081. Not insubstantial numbers. The big push in 1980/81 was mainly to get engines into South Africa before the deadline for them starting up the Atlantis engine scheme, in the Cape, where locally built engines would be used as substitutes for imported makes,in future. (Another nail in the coffin down to politicians whims.)

[zb_anorak]

I’ve just had a trawl through this thread and found these two photos:

Do they help in deciding whether the boat-carrying artic is a Mythical Beast? Could the light-coloured bit behind the cab be the inlet manifold and rocker cover? What about the air filter arrangement- would Guy use a similar setup to Seddon?

[240_gardner]

gingerfold:
Interesting. I wonder why it was de-rated, unless the DB gearbox wouldn’t take the full torque of the 8LXB. Digressing slightly (I do think we should have a Seddon thread one day) Seddon would build ‘one-offs’ and at Mothers Pride Liverpool we had two Motor Panels cabbed Seddons for trunking, coupled to 40 ft single axle trailers, one had a Gardner 6LXB ‘180’, the other had a 6LX ‘150’, - quite an unusal engine spec. at the time in the early '70s.

Yes, it was for exactly that reason. Mind you the DB gearbox struggled with the 220 ■■■■■■■■ never mind the 8LXB!

Similarly, Atkinson built 6LX-engined Borderers for Sainsbury’s as late as 1973 - one is in preservation now.

[chris_webb]

An old Scottish pal of mine reckons only two things last forever - God and the Loch Ness Monster. I think there are three things - the two I’ve mentioned and this thread.

[altitude]

Chris Webb:
:lol:
An old Scottish pal of mine reckons only two things last forever - God and the Loch Ness Monster. I think there are three things - the two I’ve mentioned and this thread.

[retired_old_fart]

And long may it remain so!

[fryske]

240 Gardner:

gingerfold:
Interesting. I wonder why it was de-rated, unless the DB gearbox wouldn’t take the full torque of the 8LXB. Digressing slightly (I do think we should have a Seddon thread one day) Seddon would build ‘one-offs’ and at Mothers Pride Liverpool we had two Motor Panels cabbed Seddons for trunking, coupled to 40 ft single axle trailers, one had a Gardner 6LXB ‘180’, the other had a 6LX ‘150’, - quite an unusal engine spec. at the time in the early '70s.

Yes, it was for exactly that reason. Mind you the DB gearbox struggled with the 220 ■■■■■■■■ never mind the 8LXB!

Similarly, Atkinson built 6LX-engined Borderers for Sainsbury’s as late as 1973 - one is in preservation now.

Two ?

[5thwheel]

Retired Old ■■■■:
And long may it remain so!

I’ll drink to that ROF!!

David

[andrew_morrison]

Saviem:
Evening Gentlemen…

Am I just getting older, more beucholic…and if you, as I , had been struggling for more than 14 hours in this fair day to extract Mr Estyma`s finest from Shropshires wet and gluggy soil, (to keep your fair ladies, and your insatiable taste buds) so economicaly fed with such delectable flavours, I would not be so rattled by the doubters of such a magnificent beasts existence than Wolverhamptons 8LXB Guy Big J, (although if confronted by the driving seat of such a beast at this hour…well I would decline the obvious pleasure)!!!

Dennis you mischievous pensioner…perchance your photographs are of Mr Seddons 8LXB creations??

Pebbles, Robin Hannay was a great archievist of Guy, and although I have no knowledge of his written

works, …if he said something existed…well Gentlemen …it really did!! For he had the real depth of knowledge of being a worker for both the factory…and a Dealer, (and I speak from such experience, although not with Guy), but with that experience you really get to know the inside story…(.that that the PR people never disclose)!!!

Yes Smith of Maddiston had 8LXB`s…, somewhere early on in this thread I gave the registration number of one coupled to a Highway Superlightweight Trailer, that I was evaluating. Hulme Robertson was a Gardner man…as many a fishing boat skipper at Leith would confirm!!!

In those, (are they really far off days), one really did not notice the spec, or engine, for it was not either rare or exotic, but as Trev H quite rightly says…later the engine would have been worth more than the lorry!!!

gingerfold`s lists would have the key, but how many of us have sold, given away, or just scrapped information that today would be the “key” to a question…I am guilty as charged!!

All I can remember…Guy, (in their corporate death throes), built over 500 Scammell Crusaders, (check where yours was built…if the chassis number starts GHV, then it is a daughter of Wolverhampton)…Over 50 Marathons were built at Fallings Park, and they all had Guy Chassis numbers, and of course the Land Train was a Wolverhampton product…and those redundant ex Sankey cab builders made those cabs fit onto the chassis…those Southerners could not…neither could those Lancastrian bandits!!!

Guy was a great company, with a great workforce, sacrificed on the alter of corporate mismanagement, and like so many innovative operations its records were not always accurate, or even recorded…

The 8LXB Big J existed, (but in what limited numbers who knows)? The evidence is there…

Im away for copious Bollinger, I have mud like the Somme could not produce......and over 100 acres of Estymas finest trapped within,…and I have to liberate them on the morrow…or your wives/partners/whatever, will have nothing for your teas on Friday!!!

Bon Chance mes Braves

Cheerio for now…

Dear Mr Saviem
you crack me up with you anecdotes/gardening tips keep em coming & enjoy your bollinger as we will enjoy the spuds

salut Andrew

[retired_old_fart]

Don’t encourage him, Andrew!

[240_gardner]

fryske:
[Two ?

Doh! Of course Steve, of course

[saviem]

Retired Old ■■■■:
Saviem, mon brave,
In my day, it was expected that potatoes would all be out of the ground well before the land turned to the quagmire that we are seeing recently. It appears that we are hearing the same old tale year after year from you and your agricultural brethren and, to be perfectly honest, the story is beginning to wear a tiny bit thin.
May I, in what may be perceived as a bit of “Teaching grandma to ■■■■ eggs”, suggest that you move your overpriced, diesel-guzzling technology into the crop in September, as is traditionally the “proper” time, rather than concentrating on running booze trips into Frogland on the pretext of collecting rare vehicles.
I trust that this advice will be accepted in the spirit in which it was intended and that you will seek to improve your performance in future seasons.
Yours sincerely,
Chip Spud.

Evening Gentlemen,

Dearest Chip Spud,…and all you wonderful “spud” lovers and growers, perhaps a few details to point ones wives/partners/mistresses/…(no only in French political circles), or yourselves, when perusing the “farm door” displays in Mr Morrison, Sainsbury, Tesco, dear Wally Wallmart, or our Teutonic Bretherens discounters Aldi and Liddle, (did you know that they really do share the same store designer)?

Chip Spud, we were lifting back in the September mists…and not using a lot of the “claret”, ours is all new stuff…approved by Brussels I will have you know…which is more than can be said for the antisceptic Euro Sprout, so common in the low countries and dearest, (but so lethargic) France… gives one catastrophic wind I am told by a local Barmaid of more than ample girth…rather reminiscent of a Great Western Saddle Tank Locomotive in a low cut frock!!!

Now I do like growing spuds…those fluffy delectable Maris Piper, or even the firm King Edwards. We do a lot of the pre pack housewives favourite Estima, (but they can suffer with dry rot)…and we have just finished “lifting” our contracts…mud glorious mud…I`m trying to swop my Valtra for a couple of Elephants!!!

Our “high end” clients will pay the right price for our Epicure, or even the Tresdale`s, a great salad potatoe, (and the latter resists Blackleg so well)!! And we do grow a fair acreage of Ulster Sceptre…the worlds most delicate potato.

Again for the “high end” clients we grow some Vivaldi…as delicate as his music…so beloved of non performing customer call centres!!!

Then of course in my early days I grew Zahov for those rate cutting taskmasters the Potato Crisp manufacturers! But gave that up as a very bad job…but we had some luck with the Fryers favourite, (if they want a great reputation), Mr Zohar, a good early, and frys a treat!

Possibly Seddons Oldham yard shown in ZBs photograph, should have been ploughed up to grow these "earlys,............ shame on you and Bewick, for passing off Oldham products as those of Fallings Park!..........You should both be condemned to a diet of those rock hard Maris Peers with your repast for your mischief!!!

I have just enjoyed a great Shepards Pie, (wonder if Chillinton Estate will miss their Shepard)■■? Topped with fresh…and well washed Maris Piper…and of course…a wonderful Claret…

But now its time for my nightcap, and the 83 Bollinger is cooling well…

Cheerio for now…BUT EAT MORE SPUDS…

[gingerfold]

Saviem, I think that it’s about time that you had an open day at your farm for us to sample your wonderful varieties of potatoes in their “signature” dishes washed down with Bollinger, or Marston’s Pedigree for those of us with less esoteric (and cheaper) taste buds. Plus,of course, a couple of hours of your reminiscences of nostalgic times past.

[retired_old_fart]

I know I’m an old Philistine but I prefer my steak pie and chips washed down with a pint of Banks’ bitter, which I can heartily recommend. Extremely nutty flavour, not too much gas and, best of all, 99p a pint from Aldi in proper bottles, not those aluminium tubes so beloved of our Australian cousins.
Saviem, seriously considering growing rice this year!