.
Have you actually tried to drive (slow down) automatic MAN using the gear box? It is so random, that it is both scary and dangerous.
nodding donkey:
Have you actually tried to drive (slow down) automatic MAN using the gear box? It is so random, that it is both scary and dangerous.
Only ever had the pleasure of driving autos in cars, but autos in trucks really what ever next, how much simpler do they have to make it… Oh wait someone told the truck manufactures the same crock of ■■■■ like they told the car manufactures that diesel fuel was cleaner that putting auto boxes in trucks would make them more economical…and oh the manufactures have been sucked in again…
.
You made your point a long time ago, now would be a good time to stop repeating yourself.
See this is where you go wrong, you do, at times, have a valid argument, but then you keep on and on and on about it.
Please stop…
Have all those discussing this issue done both methods over a period of time like I have so they have experiences to compare 
I have 
I agree with what Albion said about synchro’ boxes. Double de clutching on a synchro’ box uses the synchro’s twice, so you end up with the baulk rings wearing out faster. I drove a Scania with a 3 over 3 synchro’ box and it was horrible. No matter what I did, the synchro’ didn’t work properly on 2nd/5th/8th/11.
This is not because of the way I was brought up, but I really can’t agree with using brakes only to slow a very heavy lump of metal. As I’ve said before, the brake linings / pads use friction which causes heat to slow a vehicle by dissipating the heat through the drums / rotors. Has anyone noticed how some drums have cooling fins and rotors have vents ? Slowing down by means other than friction brakes keeps those friction brakes cool (comparatively) so that if they are needed in an emergency, they’ll give optimum performance.
If it was the case that friction brakes were up to scratch no matter what, why were retarders and jake brakes invented ?
Thanks Peter. Is it not embarrassing listening to a driver revving his way down a synchro box!?
Did somebody say carryfast had made a relevant point?
Carryfast it really is pointless trying to discuss anything with you.You know nothing about training or testing apart from your test 30 years ago when you said you ignored your instructor. 
When I said I did not like brakes to slow gears to go I was referring to the way a lot of car instructors teach their students and I thought that the same was being done on LGV’s but after reading some comments it is obvious that is not the case.
LGV’s are a different kettle of fish obviously because of the weight involved and you could not use the car method on a truck but as vehicles have improved vastly over the years block changing is perfectly acceptable as long as it is carried out correctly.
Another problem with training has always been using an empty vehicle. They tried adding weight in the 70’s but it was soon stopped. I believe they are putting some weight on again but I bet it is not enough. Part of the test should be driving a fully laden vehicle.
Once again I reiterate and tell you No examiner would pass a driver if they thought they were dangerous or potentially dangerous.
I would say the biggest problem of trucks not being able to stop is because there is a lack of forward planning and dare I say it traveling too close.
ROG:
Have all those discussing this issue done both methods over a period of time like I have so they have experiences to compareI have
I’m sure we all have ROG, I was based in London and no matter where I was going, the start and finish of a journey involved traffic and roundabouts, traffic lights etc.
I’m not going to pretend I never coasted up to a set of lights or a roundabout, especially if I was going to come to a stop.
It wouldn’t take too many stops like that to get the brakes warmed up to the point that they got noisy and in the days before automatic slack adjusters, the 9/16th spanner would have to come out to nip things up a lot more often.
.
.
.
I can’t explain, I’ve lost the will to live…
And so it continues
.
Carryfast, you are missing one or two pertinent points. Firstly, as the average age of a truck driver is mid-fifties, most of us have had thirty or more years experience with all the different vehicles and gearboxes mentioned, and have driven them in the conditions where we earn our experience. i.e 0300 mid-winter over Shap, Snake Pass, Woodhead,Beattock etc etc so forgive us if we feel a little patronised by your interminable sermons.
Secondly, gears 2 go blah blah, is more commonly used in racing circles, where to exploit engine braking to the extent we as truck drivers would want would make laps too slow. So they just dive into the corner, brake to the desired speed, select gear for exit and put their foot down. Interestingly, they use the double clutch method too. The reason why is because it matches their road speed to the gear required, which is what we do too of course, but they do it to eradicate the negative effects of engine braking.
So sermonising about this as a means for engine braking shows your lack of true experience. A professional driver is always in the correct gear for the required road speed, and this is what a constant-mesh box does best, it forces the driver to focus on his speed in relation to the gear he is in. This driver will be in the correct gear for the descent of a hill just prior to its steepest part, so he won’t be revving the engine and doubleclutching expecting some help from engine braking as it starts gathering speed on the steeper parts of the descent, he will be exploiting the engine braking within the gear he has chosen for the descent. The speed will be relevant to the steepness, the length of the descent, the condition of the vehicle, the weight, the conditions, and perhaps the drivers competence too.
As I said you know nothing about training.The way car instructors teach novice drivers the use of gears is not the same as when doing LGV training.
A car instructor would have a driver approach a stop sign in top gear and once stopped would select the moving off gear. This would never happen during LGV training.
As I said pop along to your local training centre and have your eyes opened.You might actually learn something if you listen.
Double de clutching on some truck gearboxes is bad for them. I have had that confirmed by a truck fitter.Something else you got wrong.
.