Just back from Australia a few days ago and before you all ask we had a wonderful time. Been reading through some of the threads since I have been away and one that caught my interest was one about the use of brakes in an LGV.
It seems that some were trying to blame the training companies for teaching trainees to drive using the gears to go brakes to slow method. As a qualified Instructor of cars lorries and coaches for nearly twenty years and an LGV driver for another twenty I can honestly say some have got their facts wrong.
For one thing the majority of LGV Instructors are ex LGV drivers so why would they be saying such a thing unless they are not properly qualified of course.
The only time I have heard of an instructor using that phrase is during car training.
Secondly the LGV test is the same as a car test. It is a basic test that teaches you the minimum requirements to pass the test. It is then up to the individual to gain experience and to learn more driving skills something some do not bother with.
Most professional training companies will have theory lessons in a classroom which will include use of brakes including how an air brake system works.
As I have said many times before I think the LGV test needs to be a lot more involved to help drivers cope in the real world but as we know it is all about time and money.
Not the fault of the training companies.It is the system that is at fault.
The euro 6 DAF artic I drive gives me a congratulory nod when I use the engine brake. " Well done,service brakes saved " etc.
So nobody has told the lorry manufacturers about this ’ mantra '.
Try using the exhaust brake, or the gears for that matter, in an MAN… best bring a spare pair of underpants. …
Carryfast:
albion1971:
Just back from Australia a few days ago and before you all ask we had a wonderful time. Been reading through some of the threads since I have been away and one that caught my interest was one about the use of brakes in an LGV.
It seems that some were trying to blame the training companies for teaching trainees to drive using the gears to go brakes to slow method. As a qualified Instructor of cars lorries and coaches for nearly twenty years and an LGV driver for another twenty I can honestly say some have got their facts wrong.
For one thing the majority of LGV Instructors are ex LGV drivers so why would they be saying such a thing unless they are not properly qualified of course.
The only time I have heard of an instructor using that phrase is during car training.
Secondly the LGV test is the same as a car test.
Firstly I think some of the previous comments by ROG would suggest that at least he for one doesn’t agree with you.While my own experience of the training regime went along similar lines even more than 30 years ago to the point where I just ignored the instructions in that regard of brakes and block change only on the approach on test.Meanwhile just using your ears as a retired driver tells anyone that the idea of sequential downshifts on the basis of gears to slow brakes to stop is a thing of the distant past in terms of the instinctive basis required and instilled from the point of instruction.
Meanwhile your own sentence seems to contradict the idea of people being taught how to drive a truck from day 1.Bearing in mind that I’ve always driven a car the same way in that regard at least anyway. 
youtube.com/watch?v=8hKKzOHRTPY
0.56-1.20
2.10-
Maybe you can show me some of the comments by Rog. Other than that I think you are on another planet mate.
Carryfast:
albion1971:
Carryfast:
albion1971:
Just back from Australia a few days ago and before you all ask we had a wonderful time. Been reading through some of the threads since I have been away and one that caught my interest was one about the use of brakes in an LGV.
It seems that some were trying to blame the training companies for teaching trainees to drive using the gears to go brakes to slow method. As a qualified Instructor of cars lorries and coaches for nearly twenty years and an LGV driver for another twenty I can honestly say some have got their facts wrong.
For one thing the majority of LGV Instructors are ex LGV drivers so why would they be saying such a thing unless they are not properly qualified of course.
The only time I have heard of an instructor using that phrase is during car training.
Secondly the LGV test is the same as a car test.
Firstly I think some of the previous comments by ROG would suggest that at least he for one doesn’t agree with you.While my own experience of the training regime went along similar lines even more than 30 years ago to the point where I just ignored the instructions in that regard of brakes and block change only on the approach on test.Meanwhile just using your ears as a retired driver tells anyone that the idea of sequential downshifts on the basis of gears to slow brakes to stop is a thing of the distant past in terms of the instinctive basis required and instilled from the point of instruction.
Meanwhile your own sentence seems to contradict the idea of people being taught how to drive a truck from day 1.Bearing in mind that I’ve always driven a car the same way in that regard at least anyway.
youtube.com/watch?v=8hKKzOHRTPY
0.56-1.20
2.10-
Maybe you can show me some of the comments by Rog. Other than that I think you are on another planet mate.
Make your mind up I’m saying sequential downshifts on the approach to create maximum engine braking which seems to go against accepted DSA practice in calling for use of/reliance on brakes in that situation.You say I’m ‘on another planet’.As for ROG’s comments they seem to reflect what my HGV driving instructors called for when I did my tests 30-35 years ago.Meanwhile feel free to explain exactly what ROG meant here. 
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51247&hilit=sequential&start=30#p590683
This jet lag is not a good thing!
My whole point here is that no LGV instructor should be teaching gears 2 go brakes 2 slow and anyone that does should not be doing the job. Do you agree? Can you tell me of anyone that uses that method?
I sat my class one in 1977 and I was taught how to use the gears and brakes properly. I last did LGV training nearly 10 years ago and taught the correct method of using brakes and gears for an LGV. It does not matter what type of gearbox a truck has the correct method still has to be taught. I was RTITB registered and qualified and also assessed by the DSA so please tell me what I have been doing wrong? I do know the DSA use the method you suggest for car instruction.
I have read the post by Rog and what do you want me to say.Everything he says is more or less true.
Can I ask about your experience as an LGV instructor? Also what do you think the u tube video is proving?
Where can I see the latest DSA practice for an LGV’s braking method? Do you think drivers take time to learn more after passing their tests? Do you agree the LGV test is a basic test?
Please try to answer my questions without going off on a tangent. I struggle to understand a lot of what you say.
Thank goodness you were not my instructor. 
I cut my teeth driving road trains Darwin _ Melbourne and used to hear a lot of Mmtm stories about tickets being written for showing brake lights when signed descents said engage low gear. They teach be at the speed you need to descend at the top over there. Very few hero 's on the big ones over there!
Carryfast you are a cracker. I cannot really be bothered with all your rubbish but I will tell you what I think of you latest post in brief.
From what I read of Rog’s post it is not as you say and if it is I do not agree. I nor any LGV instructor I know has taught drivers just to use the brakes to slow down. As you say you need engine braking which comes from changing down gears.
Also please tell me why if the training companies have never taught drivers the correct method why are there so few accidents involving brake fade?
You seem to be blaming the DSA for your mad accusations therefore if this were true it would not be the fault of the training companies and the fault of DSA.
From what you have said you obviously know nothing about how training or how it works so I suggest you pop into your local training company and let them explain why you are wrong.
PS Did you also know that to double de clutch in a lot of modern trucks does them damage!
.Bearing in mind that drivers usually instinctively drive the way that they’ve been taught from day 1.
Where did you get that from? That is complete nonsense. Most drivers will freely admit they change the way they drive after they pass their test.
I think you need to get out and about more.
Am I the only one reading this imagining two old duffers in a retirement home arguing before nurse brings the meds round.
Anyway sure you pair know what your on about which looks to me like you agree with each other but are going round the houses a bit to get there.
To settle what the current philosophy is on gears to go and luck to slow perhaps asking what our resident spammers on the newbies section think may work… 
If it helps when I select engine retardation on my current steed whilst slowing down for say a junction the vehicle agrees with gears to slow and performs downshifts to optimise engine retardation. Course some manual intervention is required on steeper gradients but she soon gets to grips with whats going on.
P.S. Nice to read you had a good time in Oz Albion and welcome back, have you any pictures of your adventures downunder.
Welcome back back Albion. There’s a lot of new members here who haven’t experienced your err “enthusiastic” posts. 
Did you bump into Ant & Dec?
Cheers Dave but less of the old duffer eh! I think you are quite right that Carryfast and I are saying the same thing only difference being I have been heavily involved in training where he has not.
Yes got plenty photos but as the wife was with me the majority of the time most would not interest anyone on here.
I did get a few of some trucks especially my mates and even got a drive.Most enjoyable.
Tried to post photos of my past motorcycles some time back but seemed to have a problem with it which I never resolved.
I will have another go and see what happens.
the maoster:
Welcome back back Albion. There’s a lot of new members here who haven’t experienced your err “enthusiastic” posts. Did you bump into Ant & Dec?
Cheers nah not interested in Ant & Dec. Would not have minded bumping into Foggy though!
Maybe enthusiastic but very true…
Now back to bed for me again.It’s a nightmare!
Carryfast:
Dipper_Dave:
Am I the only one reading this imagining two old duffers in a retirement home arguing before nurse brings the meds round.
Anyway sure you pair know what your on about which looks to me like you agree with each other but are going round the houses a bit to get there.
More like Albion is trying to use bs to defend the indefensible doctrine of brakes and block changing on the approach which has been the method instilled by the training regime for decades.
As for age I could probably teach my 80 something old mum to drive a truck better than that shown in the video examples which I posted. 
You really do not know what you are talking about. Do you think you know better than the Road Transport Industry Training Board and the DSA■■? and every trained instructor in the country.
If as you say the training has been wrong for all these years(only in your head) why has nothing been done about it?
I will ask you again why if there is a problem with the training has there not been multiple accidents caused by brake fade?
As I said before pop into your local training company and ask them and I can assure you they will tell you that you are completely wrong with your theory.
Something like 95% of accidents are caused by human error.
I reckon you had a real problem when you did your training ( probably told the instructor you were right and he was wrong) and that is why you seem to despise them so much.I think you might need help.