There is absolutely no reason why in normal driving conditions that a driver of a fully loaded 44 tonne LGV cannot use the brakes for slow and gears for go method with any gearbox
Modern LGVs and virtually all other modern vehicles are designed to be driven this way
The latest auto boxes have also been designed to hold the current gear when slowing and to engage the gear to go when the accelerator is next pressed
ROG:
There is absolutely no reason why in normal driving conditions that a driver of a fully loaded 44 tonne LGV cannot use the brakes for slow and gears for go method with any gearboxModern LGVs and virtually all other modern vehicles are designed to be driven this way
The latest auto boxes have also been designed to hold the current gear when slowing and to engage the gear to go when the accelerator is next pressed
The latest auto boxes also have an engine braking facility, press the right button and it will downshift immediately and continue downshifting with the exhauster engaged constantly until you reach the overdone lurch change from 7th to 5th (AS Tronic) by which time most of us have cancelled the auto brake to avoid that final downshift.
As for normal driving conditions and using the brakes, why would the driver put unnecessary wear on the braking system when the vehicle is designed with adequate auxilliary braking, enough in many cases if used properly will brake the loaded vehicle enough to enable many main road roundabouts on the route to be negotiated without touching the brakes at all.
Whats normal and what isn’t, practiced and used regularly when the driver needs serious control auxilliary braking they will know every nuance of their vehicle, it’s no use driving the BTSGTG way 363 days of the year and then expecting the driver to change tack completely when the going gets tough, down that road lies disaster.
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Carryfast:
Meanwhile you seem to have selectively missed the point that automated boxes generally do seem to use sequential/multiple/progressive downshifts to create engine braking just as any old school driver would.Obviously in direct contradiction with the idea of brakes to slow gears to go
Have I …
ROG:
The latest auto boxes have also been designed to hold the current gear when slowing and to engage the gear to go when the accelerator is next pressed
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Carryfast:
ROG:
Carryfast:
Meanwhile you seem to have selectively missed the point that automated boxes generally do seem to use sequential/multiple/progressive downshifts to create engine braking just as any old school driver would.Obviously in direct contradiction with the idea of brakes to slow gears to goHave I …
ROG:
The latest auto boxes have also been designed to hold the current gear when slowing and to engage the gear to go when the accelerator is next pressedYes being that you’ve obviously missed the difference between ‘holding the current gear’ as opposed to ‘sequential/multiple/progressive downshifts’.On that note it is no wonder that the North American environment won’t recognise a UK licence.IE approaching a roundabout or junction etc etc while holding a relatively high gear, as road speed reduces won’t provide any effective engine braking.
Engine braking occurs during the first part of slowing down and when nearing the end of the slowing down engine braking will not make much difference if the brakes are also being applied
Changing down through the gears to maintain engine braking is not necessary for normal road driving conditions - the roadcraft manual makes this very clear and explains it in better detail than I can so perhaps roadcraft should be read by those that disagree and then put their case to the top driving experts that compiled it
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If you disagree with roadcraft then I suggest you contact the top police traffic drivers in the UK and have a discussion with them !
Oh - the USA and Canada as well as many other places in the world have current or ex UK police traffic drivers to teach them the roadcraft way … I wonder why that is
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Carryfast:
ROG:
If you disagree with roadcraft then I suggest you contact the top police traffic drivers in the UK and have a discussion with them !Oh - the USA and Canada as well as many other places in the world have current or ex UK police traffic drivers to teach them the roadcraft way … I wonder why that is
I might be wrong but as far as I know the idea of using brakes and block changing ( brakes to slow gears to go ) on the approach instead of sequential downshifts will ( rightly ) fail a North American CDL test.
If that is what they want a driver to do to pass that test then that is what a driver will need to do but that does not mean it is necessary
I had to DDC on my lorry test back in 1988 in a lorry with no need to do so and have never driven a crash box for a living - without doing DDC I would have failed but it was not necessary
ROG:
There is absolutely no reason why in normal driving conditions that a driver of a fully loaded 44 tonne LGV cannot use the brakes for slow and gears for go method with any gearboxModern LGVs and virtually all other modern vehicles are designed to be driven this way
The latest auto boxes have also been designed to hold the current gear when slowing and to engage the gear to go when the accelerator is next pressed
What a load of complete and utter ■■■■■■■■!
There is a reason, a bloody good reason why gears to go, brakes to slow is wrong and it’s called brake fade.
It’s also bad driving, as you approach a junction or whatever, you should be downshifting so that when you can go you are in the correct gear instantly, not fumbling around looking for a gear.
Slowing down using the gearbox and engine brake will keep the foundation brakes cold and therefore at their best in terms of braking performance, the higher rpms will also have the compressor working meaning it will be resupplying the air tanks with maximum pressure, meaning you have maximum braking force available when needed.
It’s also much more economical as you will back off the throttle earlier and gently slow down, which also puts the load at less risk of shifting and puts less stress on any load securement you have and it doesn’t wear out linings/drums or pads/discs so quickly.
Anybody advocating the gears to go, brakes to slow method is talking out of their arse.
Mind you they do say that those that can, do and those that can’t, teach.
Dipper_Dave:
Am I the only one reading this imagining two old duffers in a retirement home arguing before nurse brings the meds round.
Anyway sure you pair know what your on about which looks to me like you agree with each other but are going round the houses a bit to get there.To settle what the current philosophy is on gears to go and luck to slow perhaps asking what our resident spammers on the newbies section think may work…
If it helps when I select engine retardation on my current steed whilst slowing down for say a junction the vehicle agrees with gears to slow and performs downshifts to optimise engine retardation. Course some manual intervention is required on steeper gradients but she soon gets to grips with whats going on.
P.S. Nice to read you had a good time in Oz Albion and welcome back, have you any pictures of your adventures downunder.
More like how this thread is going lmao 
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Never experienced brake fade, but had a few bum twitching moments caused by badly adjusted brakes, which was probably the main cause of “brake fade”, with modern trucks which have automatic slack adjusters they have got rid of the problem of “brake fade”.
Your all arguing about a problem that very rarely happens these days, brake technology has moved on leaps and bounds since stopping distances were tested and based on an old ford Anglia!!
This is a bit like the myth that your artic is going to jackknife if you brake to hard, also spouted by some instructors!
Brake fade used to be where the lining material glazed and didn’t have as much friction to grab the drum, or the heat caused the drum to expand and go further away from the lining, meaning if your brakes were at the end of the pushrod stroke at maximum applied pressure the linings would barely be touching the drum. Either way or even a combination of the two and you were going directly to the scene of the accident.
newmercman:
Brake fade used to be where the lining material glazed and didn’t have as much friction to grab the drum, or the heat caused the drum to expand and go further away from the lining, meaning if your brakes were at the end of the pushrod stroke at maximum applied pressure the linings would barely be touching the drum. Either way or even a combination of the two and you were going directly to the scene of the accident.
“Used to be” being the operative words.
No, same rules apply today, unless the laws of physics have changed.
newmercman:
No, same rules apply today, unless the laws of physics have changed.
Technology changed the laws of physics, especially between a truck from the 20th and a truck from the 21st century!!!
Friction material has got better, but metal drums still expand when they get hot and excessive braking causes heat.
Discs are a different story of course, when they expand they get closer to the pads and as long as the friction material can handle it you will have better, quicker responding brakes.
The fact remains though that a loaded lorry relying on its brakes alone for slowing down will be approaching the hazard/junction/whatever a lot faster than one that is slowing using gears/engine braking and no matter how good the brakes are, the faster you’re going, the longer it will take to stop.
newmercman:
Friction material has got better, but metal drums still expand when they get hot and excessive braking causes heat.
And the drums expand, and then Automatic slack adjusters, well take up the slack.
