Isn’t everyone?
Hallo SAVIEM,
Brossel was taken over by Leyland and than they made a new LAD cabbed lorry. But it was too late and like others to small to survive. But for the british a lot were capable to develop and update their products and withstand the continetal competitors.For example lots licence built british engines, Scania turned to Leyland because they had difficulties to build direct injection, with which the british the first were (and not like the Germans that you had to warm up before starting) and so on,and so on.I can still remember the our AEC always fired up straight away warm or cold days,and not like our Faun’s with Deutz engines, you had too warm them for an eternity before you could start if you batteries weren’t flat by then in winter.The Henschel’s were letter with their Lanova injection system ( copied by Mack in the '30’s).
Auto miesse, first the bosses retired and only a daughter stayed in bussines but not for long, their were no successors,and the last to years the made only a couple of lorries and busses and ceased in '74.
And like other to small and I am not sure a bit overpriced maybe.Service outside belgium because never sold outside belgium,the nederlands and luxembourg.But wat I can say is that lots of fleets stayed loyal to Auto Miesse with Gardner engines.A make who can’t sell outside it’s country can’t survive, For example lock at Scania in the past they had to expand to abroad to survive.Not all France or German makes have stayed too. And nowedays it is still harsh to survive.
But the British HAD TO with makes as AEC, Leyland, Bedford, BMC and so on.Even Seddon and Guy were over here.And sure a belgian (was) and is (still not) so Belgian minded to buy something, not like Germans say (Germans buy German).
greetings Eric,
Retired Old ■■■■:
Isn’t everyone?
Mr Stokes wasnt
Mr Stokes doesn’t count- he neither drove nor operated lorries!
ramone:
Retired Old ■■■■:
Isn’t everyone?Mr Stokes wasnt
I read a quote of his once (I can’t find the source of it, so you’ll have to trust my dodgy memory!). It went along the lines of, “My peers are cleverer than me, but I’m more cunning.” Maybe he was found out by the managers of AEC, and that is why AEC was undermined.
Here’s another, from a newspaper obituary (again, I forget which newpaper- probably the Guardian or Independent, since I do not have access to the Times and it wasn’t in the Tele!): “What distresses me is the number of boys with academic training who are completely useless.” In other words, the top boss of Leyland could not find a use for people with three years’ more education than himself. How the hell did he remain in charge for do long?
[zb]
anorak:ramone:
Retired Old ■■■■:
Isn’t everyone?Mr Stokes wasnt
I read a quote of his once (I can’t find the source of it, so you’ll have to trust my dodgy memory!). It went along the lines of, “My peers are cleverer than me, but I’m more cunning.” Maybe he was found out by the managers of AEC, and that is why AEC was undermined.
Here’s another, from a newspaper obituary (again, I forget which newpaper- probably the Guardian or Independent, since I do not have access to the Times and it wasn’t in the Tele!): “What distresses me is the number of boys with academic training who are completely useless.” In other words, the top boss of Leyland could not find a use for people with three years’ more education than himself. How the hell did he remain in charge for do long?
He was a “patsey” for Harold Wilson’s labour party,thats why he survived for so long IMO.Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
[zb]
anorak:ramone:
Retired Old ■■■■:
Isn’t everyone?Mr Stokes wasnt
I read a quote of his once (I can’t find the source of it, so you’ll have to trust my dodgy memory!). It went along the lines of, “My peers are cleverer than me, but I’m more cunning.” Maybe he was found out by the managers of AEC, and that is why AEC was undermined.
Here’s another, from a newspaper obituary (again, I forget which newpaper- probably the Guardian or Independent, since I do not have access to the Times and it wasn’t in the Tele!): “What distresses me is the number of boys with academic training who are completely useless.” In other words, the top boss of Leyland could not find a use for people with three years’ more education than himself. How the hell did he remain in charge for do long?
He was a “patsey” for Harold Wilson’s labour party,thats why he survived for so long IMO.Cheers Bewick.
Was he the same Stokes that appeared on "Have i got news for you " or just a relation?
pursy:
I worked in the workshop for Taylors of Martley,they ran some 8lxbs and 8lxcts day and night. The night trunk was Worcester to Carlisle and the day run would be perhaps down to Devon. They would like a gallon of oil each shift.When you finally got the engine to bits the bores,rings and pistons were about knacked. If you just tried to put just rings on them the piston would drop down the bore without tapping it.
If it got really cold the only way to start them was to remove the air filter element and get a fire going.
Valve guide wear was bad too, leave them and the valve would drop and really spoil the fun.
But having said all that I loved driving them especially the 300hp 8lxct the torque was pretty flat from 1000 to 1500 rpm and that was when everthing else wouldnt pull below 1400 rpm.
Funny thing was when you poured oil in them and they were worn out they still went the same and were excellent on fuel
sound like they wasnt looked after right the 8lxb and the 8lxcts we had ran day and nite with no problams for 6 years we used the rite oil and serviced every 4 weeks and set up 3 times a year great engine
bradfordlad9999:
pursy:
I worked in the workshop for Taylors of Martley,they ran some 8lxbs and 8lxcts day and night. The night trunk was Worcester to Carlisle and the day run would be perhaps down to Devon. They would like a gallon of oil each shift.When you finally got the engine to bits the bores,rings and pistons were about knacked. If you just tried to put just rings on them the piston would drop down the bore without tapping it.
If it got really cold the only way to start them was to remove the air filter element and get a fire going.
Valve guide wear was bad too, leave them and the valve would drop and really spoil the fun.
But having said all that I loved driving them especially the 300hp 8lxct the torque was pretty flat from 1000 to 1500 rpm and that was when everthing else wouldnt pull below 1400 rpm.
Funny thing was when you poured oil in them and they were worn out they still went the same and were excellent on fuelsound like they wasnt looked after right the 8lxb and the 8lxcts we had ran day and nite with no problams for 6 years we used the rite oil and serviced every 4 weeks and set up 3 times a year great engine
Sounds like the wrong oil to me as well,we had excellent service out of both the 8LXB(double shifted) and the 8LXC engines,but they ran on a lower grade oil than the Scania and Volvo engines.Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
bradfordlad9999:
pursy:
I worked in the workshop for Taylors of Martley,they ran some 8lxbs and 8lxcts day and night. The night trunk was Worcester to Carlisle and the day run would be perhaps down to Devon. They would like a gallon of oil each shift.When you finally got the engine to bits the bores,rings and pistons were about knacked. If you just tried to put just rings on them the piston would drop down the bore without tapping it.
If it got really cold the only way to start them was to remove the air filter element and get a fire going.
Valve guide wear was bad too, leave them and the valve would drop and really spoil the fun.
But having said all that I loved driving them especially the 300hp 8lxct the torque was pretty flat from 1000 to 1500 rpm and that was when everthing else wouldnt pull below 1400 rpm.
Funny thing was when you poured oil in them and they were worn out they still went the same and were excellent on fuelsound like they wasnt looked after right the 8lxb and the 8lxcts we had ran day and nite with no problams for 6 years we used the rite oil and serviced every 4 weeks and set up 3 times a year great engine
Sounds like the wrong oil to me as well,we had excellent service out of both the 8LXB(double shifted) and the 8LXC engines,but they ran on a lower grade oil than the Scania and Volvo engines.Cheers Bewick.
I agree with you whole heartedly Dennis,SoM used to double shift probably 65% of the 240 Percy’s,up and down the M6,no problems at all they just gobbled the miles up,but they did have to be serviced as per Gardners spec/recommendations.
David
Bewick:
bradfordlad9999:
pursy:
I worked in the workshop for Taylors of Martley,they ran some 8lxbs and 8lxcts day and night. The night trunk was Worcester to Carlisle and the day run would be perhaps down to Devon. They would like a gallon of oil each shift.When you finally got the engine to bits the bores,rings and pistons were about knacked. If you just tried to put just rings on them the piston would drop down the bore without tapping it.
If it got really cold the only way to start them was to remove the air filter element and get a fire going.
Valve guide wear was bad too, leave them and the valve would drop and really spoil the fun.sound like they wasnt looked after right the 8lxb and the 8lxcts we had ran day and nite with no problams for 6 years we used the rite oil and serviced every 4 weeks and set up 3 times a year great engine
Sounds like the wrong oil to me as well,we had excellent service out of both the 8LXB(double shifted) and the 8LXC engines,but they ran on a lower grade oil than the Scania and Volvo engines.Cheers Bewick.
Surely, you wouldn’t get a proper reading if you dipped them in the middle of a double shifted day? It takes ages for the oil to drain down properly from that ribbed crankcase - I learned that at an early age when I dipped one that had been parke dfor a little while, and put a gallon in it, and was roundly chastised by one who knew much better.
IIRC the terminology for the Oil we put into our Gardners was referred to as a “single grade” not the “Multi grade” that went into the Turbo’s.On the other hand I’m unsure as to which grade of Scotch goes into our Mr.Chris Gardner--------- Single malt or Blended and how will we be able to tell when his sump is at the right level ■■? 
Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
IIRC the terminology for the Oil we put into our Gardners was referred to as a “single grade” not the “Multi grade” that went into the Turbo’s.On the other hand I’m unsure as to which grade of Scotch goes into our Mr.Chris Gardner--------- Single malt or Blended and how will we be able to tell when his sump is at the right level ■■?
Dennis, that is easy…too full, and he will tell us the nickname for a Borderer…is Sabrina!
Too little…its a Sputnik Spaceship"
Right level…its a Borderer!!
With apologies to all who may be offended etc…
Cheerio for now, (Chris I owe you at least a cup of tea)!!
Saviem:
Bewick:
IIRC the terminology for the Oil we put into our Gardners was referred to as a “single grade” not the “Multi grade” that went into the Turbo’s.On the other hand I’m unsure as to which grade of Scotch goes into our Mr.Chris Gardner--------- Single malt or Blended and how will we be able to tell when his sump is at the right level ■■?Dennis, that is easy…too full, and he will tell us the nickname for a Borderer…is Sabrina!
Too little…its a Sputnik Spaceship"
Right level…its a Borderer!!
With apologies to all who may be offended etc…
Cheerio for now, (Chris I owe you at least a cup of tea)!!
We’d soon know “Saviem” when he started putting “bum” notes in on the Pianoforte !! Cheers Dennis. 
That would be the Big J 240’s that Dennis dosen’t believe existed.
Robert.
5thwheel:
Bewick:
bradfordlad9999:
pursy:
I worked in the workshop for Taylors of Martley,they ran some 8lxbs and 8lxcts day and night. The night trunk was Worcester to Carlisle and the day run would be perhaps down to Devon. They would like a gallon of oil each shift.When you finally got the engine to bits the bores,rings and pistons were about knacked. If you just tried to put just rings on them the piston would drop down the bore without tapping it.
If it got really cold the only way to start them was to remove the air filter element and get a fire going.
Valve guide wear was bad too, leave them and the valve would drop and really spoil the fun.
But having said all that I loved driving them especially the 300hp 8lxct the torque was pretty flat from 1000 to 1500 rpm and that was when everthing else wouldnt pull below 1400 rpm.
Funny thing was when you poured oil in them and they were worn out they still went the same and were excellent on fuelsound like they wasnt looked after right the 8lxb and the 8lxcts we had ran day and nite with no problams for 6 years we used the rite oil and serviced every 4 weeks and set up 3 times a year great engine
Sounds like the wrong oil to me as well,we had excellent service out of both the 8LXB(double shifted) and the 8LXC engines,but they ran on a lower grade oil than the Scania and Volvo engines.Cheers Bewick.
I agree with you whole heartedly Dennis,SoM used to double shift probably 65% of the 240 Percy’s,up and down the M6,no problems at all they just gobbled the miles up,but they did have to be serviced as per Gardners spec/recommendations.
David
Bewick:
Saviem:
Bewick:
IIRC the terminology for the Oil we put into our Gardners was referred to as a “single grade” not the “Multi grade” that went into the Turbo’s.On the other hand I’m unsure as to which grade of Scotch goes into our Mr.Chris Gardner--------- Single malt or Blended and how will we be able to tell when his sump is at the right level ■■?Dennis, that is easy…too full, and he will tell us the nickname for a Borderer…is Sabrina!
Too little…its a Sputnik Spaceship"
Right level…its a Borderer!!
With apologies to all who may be offended etc…
Cheerio for now, (Chris I owe you at least a cup of tea)!!
We’d soon know “Saviem” when he started putting “bum” notes in on the Pianoforte !! Cheers Dennis.
excellent, fellows
Well a cup of tea is always most welcome, John, but a fine port is just the thing at this hour. I’m afraid the appeal of Scotch passes me by, Dennis, though it may be OK for a multifuel engine 
Oh, and by the way, a “straight 30” is what is needed 
Our Gardners were fine while running on Silkolene Chatsworth oil, it was when the company got a ‘good deal’ with BP gnats pee that killed them off big time! Their gear oil didn’t suit the Foden worm and wheel diffs either, the bronze got eaten away. When you stripped them (Gardners) down there wasn’t a trace of carbon anywhere, looked just like the pistons etc had been steam cleaned, hence the reason that they drank the stuff. A bit penny wise and pound foolish but we were only there to mend them, not give an opinion. The same oil suited the Rollers though, no problem with lubrication on those.
Pete.
windrush:
Our Gardners were fine while running on Silkolene Chatsworth oil, it was when the company got a ‘good deal’ with BP gnats pee that killed them off big time! Their gear oil didn’t suit the Foden worm and wheel diffs either, the bronze got eaten away. When you stripped them (Gardners) down there wasn’t a trace of carbon anywhere, looked just like the pistons etc had been steam cleaned, hence the reason that they drank the stuff. A bit penny wise and pound foolish but we were only there to mend them, not give an opinion. The same oil suited the Rollers though, no problem with lubrication on those.Pete.
A grease man told me years ago that moly is not compatible with phosphor bronze so, if your gear oil contains it, the yellow bits will wear out sooner. I think. My head is too full of modern useless crap, such as how to find out if a text message has been sent successfully on an Android mobile telephone, to remember the good stuff properly. He definitely told me that moly is no good for rolling element bearings, due to scoring of the surface of the balls or rollers.
Why did Gardners smoke so enthusiastically when cold? Were the pistons and/or rings an unusually loose fit in the bores, so the engine needed to be warm to seal properly? If so, was this possibly one of the reasons why they were more efficient, due to lower piston/ring friction?
the mechanic 51:
That would be the Big J 240’s that Dennis dosen’t believe existed.Robert.
5thwheel:
Bewick:
bradfordlad9999:
pursy:
I worked in the workshop for Taylors of Martley,they ran some 8lxbs and 8lxcts day and night. The night trunk was Worcester to Carlisle and the day run would be perhaps down to Devon. They would like a gallon of oil each shift.When you finally got the engine to bits the bores,rings and pistons were about knacked. If you just tried to put just rings on them the piston would drop down the bore without tapping it.
If it got really cold the only way to start them was to remove the air filter element and get a fire going.
Valve guide wear was bad too, leave them and the valve would drop and really spoil the fun.
But having said all that I loved driving them especially the 300hp 8lxct the torque was pretty flat from 1000 to 1500 rpm and that was when everthing else wouldnt pull below 1400 rpm.
Funny thing was when you poured oil in them and they were worn out they still went the same and were excellent on fuelsound like they wasnt looked after right the 8lxb and the 8lxcts we had ran day and nite with no problams for 6 years we used the rite oil and serviced every 4 weeks and set up 3 times a year great engine
Sounds like the wrong oil to me as well,we had excellent service out of both the 8LXB(double shifted) and the 8LXC engines,but they ran on a lower grade oil than the Scania and Volvo engines.Cheers Bewick.
I agree with you whole heartedly Dennis,SoM used to double shift probably 65% of the 240 Percy’s,up and down the M6,no problems at all they just gobbled the miles up,but they did have to be serviced as per Gardners spec/recommendations.
David
Shush,I was trying to be tactful there Robert,but yes you are correct,I drove both the Guy 240 Percy and the ERF 240 Percy,but mainly the ERF as the Guy’s were being phased out slowly,although as stated previously,the Manchester Manager drove me in his car on my day 1 at Smith’s over to Newton Le Willows Depot to collect a motor that had come down,piggie back from Maddiston,it was a brand new Guy with a 240 Percy in it,I drove it back to Manchester,but it wasnt to be mine,I was given a Guy with a 220 ■■■■■■■■■■■■■ a decent motor,but it didnt have a patch on the 240 Guy!!!
David
Anorak, Gardner engines had a very low piston/bore friction. When installing the piston in the bore you ideally needed someone underneath to catch the con rod as the whole lot would slide down under its own weight and the big end studs could catch the crank journal and raise a ‘pip’ on it which would score the bearing shell if left undetected. I mentioned this to a Gardner works engineer and he said that it was designed so that running in wasn’t essential, like he said every road from our quarry was uphill so you couldn’t nurse the engine but max rpm wouldn’t hurt them as long as they were not overrevved down hill. Whether that caused the smoke I don’t know, they also were not fitted with valve stem oil seals so I suppose that a little oil would run down into the combustion chamber after the engine was stopped?
Pete.