Saviem:
Evening all, 5valve, I for one would be delighted to hear of the performance in operation of Gardners designs as a bus engine. I do not know the PSV world, having only "bounced " across it!!( I did once own the head leases on a number of Mercedes 303 coaches operated in sunny Yorkshire, and some converted, (at build), Oakley horseboxes, as rather luxurious “Tour Buses”, used to carry unwashed “pop” bands of some eminence)!!
What an interesting thread this is. Regarding the bus industry’s use of 6LXBs and other Gardners they were very popular during the 70s and 80s in both double-deck and single-deck vehicles. 180bhp was more than adequate for hauling a bus of about 9.5t ULW around and they were very economical in this application. Certainly compared to some of the competition they were miles ahead in many regards, particularly Leyland’s awful fixed-head 500 series which was fitted to the Leyland National single-decker and Bristol VR double-decker.
One company (Crosville) salvaged many 6LXBs from withdrawn Seddon buses and refitted them to both types in place of the 501/510. The latter really were not suited to bus work as they had short lives between overhauls, drank fuel like it was going out of fashion and would overheat on a regular basis during the summer. That, it must be said, was not exclusively Leyland’s fault, however; in the VR Bristol actually designed and built a vehicle with no radiator fan whatsoever(!) and in the National, Leyland installed a small. rear-mounted radiator which was never destined to work well in a bus application.
The one advantage the 500-series had over the Gardner was that it was, when all was working well, capable of a considerably performance advantage over the 6LXB. Additionally both the 500 and 680 generated quite a great deal more waste heat that the Gardner and this during winter time is an important consideration for bus operators as it is, of course, such waste heat which warms the cab and saloon(s). A 6LXB would struggle to do that adequately. Indeed, London Transport was running a large fleet of troublesome Leyland Fleetline double-deckers during the late 70s, which presumably thanks to supply issues it had specified with a mix of 6LXB and 680 engines. It eventually decided to get rid of most of them when they were still young, but the Leyland-engined examples were retained later than the Gardner-powered buses as the former were more passenger-friendly in the cold weather.
The 6LXB was for many years a huge favourite of bus operators in Hong Kong and they purchased it by the thousand. Most of these went into new buses, but China Motor Bus and Kowloon Motor Bus (at least) purchased a number of second-hand buses from the UK, notably a batch of Leyland Atlanteans from London, with either 600 or 680 motors in them. All were quickly re-engined to either 6LX or 6LXB power as this was much more suited to the Hong Kong climate and terrain; clearly over there providing sufficient waste heat to maintain saloon temperatures is not an issue.
Even today there are still 6LXBs to be found here and there in old double-deckers in the UK which carry school kids morning and afternoon but I would doubt you’d find more than a handful left in all-day service. I drove many Bristol VRs with five-speed semi-automatic transmission and 6LXB engines and that was proper driving - the semi-auto played as much a part in that as anything else as a skilled driver could achieve wonderfully smooth changes if used correctly. The less able on the other hand… I’m sure it beats the ‘point it in the right direction and forget’ kit they’re issued with nowadays.
The other Gardner products used in PSV applications were nowhere near as successful as the 6LX and 6LXB. The 6LXCT was purchased by some operators who needed a bit more ‘oomph’ for interurban services which would need vehicles able to cruise at 50mph plus but I think this motor did not continue the 6LXB’s reputation for fuel efficiency. There is a perhaps apocryphal story of six Leyland National 2 single-deckers being produced as stock vehicles by Leyland with 6LXCT engines and fitted out for longer distance work which sat for well over a year before finding a purchaser. Even then they only managed eight years with their first user, a very early age for retirement if my observations of many bus fleets is accurate!
I don’t believe that any 8LXBs were ever used in PSV roles but the big 6LYT was, in double-deck coaches on National Express work. Then as now there can be few vehicles which cover more miles than a National Express coach did. The 6LYT went into both Neoplan and MCW Metroliner models. Crosville had a handful of the latter and it was reckoned that engine life was exceptionally poor and moreover replacement units were very expensive. Of course, when ■■■■■■■■ L10 became widely available in bus and coach format that was game over for the big Gardner.
The one other unit used in buses was the LG1200, of which a handful were installed in double-deckers during the early 90s. Performance was very keen to say the least but I think this came at a severe cost in terms of fuel consumption. Of course, by then the likes of ■■■■■■■■ Scania and Volvo had done exactly what they’d done in the haulage business a decade earlier, and combined with various emissions regulations it did for Gardner in the end. It wasn’t helped by Volvo’s purchase of Leyland; quite obviously, Volvo wanted to use its own engines in what was the Leyland range rather than a third party’s. However Gardners were fitted in new buses until 1993. Stagecoach, as I recall, still specified 6LXBs in its new double-deckers right until the end.
And yes, bus yards when the 6LXB was in its prime were not pleasant places early in a morning! Bus drivers were wont to rev engines up from cold to build the air pressure up and you only needed two or three doing that at the same time for a fog to descend…!
I recall one bus fitter telling me it was perfectly OK (in his opinion!) to run a 6LXB back to base with no water in it (!!), fill it up when you got there and send it back out!
