if they take the VAT off, we would be laughing
mickyblue:
if they take the VAT off, we would be laughing
It’s the whole combination of road fuel tax + VAT + more VAT charged on the road fuel tax,that needs to be got rid of or at the very least just price all diesel at current red diesel rates.
Carryfast:
mickyblue:
if they take the VAT off, we would be laughingIt’s the whole combination of road fuel tax + VAT + more VAT charged on the road fuel tax,that needs to be got rid of or at the very least just price all diesel at current red diesel rates.
what planet are you on? so you want diesel to be reduced to red diesel prices, although we wouldn’t need red diesel then though! we’d all love it, but most of us are bright enough to know it’s not going to happen or anything remotely close to it.
yes it’s unfair that trains don’t pay road fuel duty, but then they don’t run on roads. but i’d guess that the majority of joe public would want, where viable to send freight by trains.
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
mickyblue:
if they take the VAT off, we would be laughingIt’s the whole combination of road fuel tax + VAT + more VAT charged on the road fuel tax,that needs to be got rid of or at the very least just price all diesel at current red diesel rates.
what planet are you on? so you want diesel to be reduced to red diesel prices, although we wouldn’t need red diesel then though! we’d all love it, but most of us are bright enough to know it’s not going to happen or anything remotely close to it.
yes it’s unfair that trains don’t pay road fuel duty, but then they don’t run on roads. but i’d guess that the majority of joe public would want, where viable to send freight by trains.
I’ve not asked for anything different there on fuel pricing and taxation than the situation as it stands more or less in North America where it’s around a dollar a litre which seems a fair enough figure.
You’ve then gone on to contradict yourself by saying that it’s unfair that trains don’t pay road fuel duty (the problem being more the fact that road transport has to pay an unfair high fuel tax not that rail pays less) and then you say that’s as it should be because Joe Public wants a situation of sending stuff by rail (where viable).Which,in reality,actually translates as let’s give rail an unfair uncompetitive trading advantage which is a totally different (should be illegal) thing which no other industry,such as the air transport industry,would be prepared to accept.
If you really think that’s what Joe Public really wants then maybe it’s time to put the removal of all road fuel taxation,or at least it’s reduction to manageable levels as in North America,with the taxation put on income tax instead,to the vote as an election issue,and then see what happens.
No prizes for guessing that it will be the zb Greens,rail freight industry employees,and overpaid high earners who’d vote against the idea. 
Probably none of which would be enough to make a majority vote and therefore mandate for their zb’d up stupid,economically damaging,ideas that we’re having forced on us in an undemocratic way at present.
I won’t bother quoting and requiring posts as we will be here forever.
In my opinion 90% of the green arguement is crap but I’m a realist. I can see the logic of a container ship unloading in Felixstowe and a train taking so many containers to regional hubs. I’ve never said I don’t want to drive long distance I said from a business point of veiw staying local is more profitable and at the end of the day I drive a lorry to earn money not for the glory.
I’ve owned all sorts of cars over the years from a mini to a 840 BMW and have enjoyed driving them all but I realise the days of cheap fuel in Europe will never happen so there is no point in coming up with ludicrous what ifs.
Yeah I have an intrest in maybe moving across the Atlantic but not just so I can drive a big car on cheap fuel.
Good lord everyone do calm down.
Now, let’s talk about hats…
kr79:
I won’t bother quoting and requiring posts as we will be here forever.
In my opinion 90% of the green arguement is crap but I’m a realist. I can see the logic of a container ship unloading in Felixstowe and a train taking so many containers to regional hubs. I’ve never said I don’t want to drive long distance I said from a business point of veiw staying local is more profitable and at the end of the day I drive a lorry to earn money not for the glory.
I’ve owned all sorts of cars over the years from a mini to a 840 BMW and have enjoyed driving them all but I realise the days of cheap fuel in Europe will never happen so there is no point in coming up with ludicrous what ifs.
Yeah I have an intrest in maybe moving across the Atlantic but not just so I can drive a big car on cheap fuel.
Put it another way do you really think that the Canadians would be looking for British drivers,to fill the vacancies provided by the growth in their road transport industry,in large part driven by the long distance sector of that industry,‘if’ they were zb stupid enough to put diesel up to £1.50 per litre just because a few greens and rail freight supporting zb’s want everything and anything that needs to travel long distances,that can be put on a train,to go by zb train 
.
switchlogic:
Good lord everyone do calm down.Now, let’s talk about hats…
Not unless it’s about which type of hats that the fors and the againsts are going to wear so we all know who to hit if we decide to settle it by having a pub brawl instead of an election. 
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Good lord everyone do calm down.Now, let’s talk about hats…
Not unless it’s about which type of hats that the fors and the againsts are going to wear so we all know who to hit if we decide to settle it by having a pub brawl instead of an election.
I think a pub brawl is about your level. I reckon your a full face balaclava man.
jesus christ man!!!
go and ■■■■ off to the promised land why don’t ya?
it’s no good cherry picking the price of a particular product from a different country unless everything else is like for like, an it isn’t, so step away from the cherry tree!
contradiction■■?
if something isn’t happening that the government want / need to happen then they grease the wheels, this isn’t something new, it’s also the reason we have wind turbines and solar panels dotted about.
as i’ve said i think the majority of the general population would want more freight on trains and i’d think the the majority couldn’t give a ■■■■ about the green issue, just simply about less trucks on the road. that my take, what’s yours?
i never said that’s how it should be, just how it is.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Good lord everyone do calm down.Now, let’s talk about hats…
Not unless it’s about which type of hats that the fors and the againsts are going to wear so we all know who to hit if we decide to settle it by having a pub brawl instead of an election.
I think a pub brawl is about your level. I reckon your a full face balaclava man.
Or the court jesters hat.
mickyblue:
if they take the VAT off, we would be laughing
the vat could be 68% and it wouldn’t affect the transport operator
stevieboy308:
jesus christ man!!!go and [zb] off to the promised land why don’t ya?
it’s no good cherry picking the price of a particular product from a different country unless everything else is like for like, an it isn’t, so step away from the cherry tree!
contradiction■■?
if something isn’t happening that the government want / need to happen then they grease the wheels, this isn’t something new, it’s also the reason we have wind turbines and solar panels dotted about.
as i’ve said i think the majority of the general population would want more freight on trains and i’d think the the majority couldn’t give a [zb] about the green issue, just simply about less trucks on the road. that my take, what’s yours?
i never said that’s how it should be, just how it is.
Eaxctly ‘that’s how it is’ but that’s not the same thing as agreeing with it and I don’t think that’s how it ‘should be’ either so the answer is to do what I’m saying and make your voice heard and apply pressure through the ballot box which answers the OP’s question.However it’s difficult to understand exactly where you actually stand on the issue as you seem to be saying that you’ve got no real objection to ‘how it is’ .
As for the promised land it’s too late for me now and unfortunately when I wanted to go they wouldn’t allow Brits in to work there as easy as they do now and many of those who’ve managed it now don’t seem to have any issues with all the ‘other factors’ that go with the dollar a litre price of road fuel so it’s not a case of cherry picking anything.
However the difference in price between diesel used for rail transport and diesel used for road transport here seems a ‘bit’ more than just ‘greasing the wheels’ and more like a typically communist type government interventionist measure to actually control transport mode choice.
Wheel Nut:
mickyblue:
if they take the VAT off, we would be laughingthe vat could be 68% and it wouldn’t affect the transport operator
But it matters to the end customer which is what the rate for the job,or wether the truck operator will even get the job instead of it going by train instead, will be based on. 
As I have said before and anyone who has run trucks will know if you half the cost of fuel the rates would be cut in no time as there are to many firms who will cut rates to get work or accept rates to get work.
In an ideal world fuel should be No more than a third of your turnover but I’d guess many people are looking at it been nearer 45 to50% of turnover at the moment.
The price of fuel is irrelevant. If you are not charging your customers enough to cover your costs and give you an acceptable return on the work that’s your fault. If the customer won’t pay reasonable rates then why are you willing to subsidise his operation?
kr79:
As I have said before and anyone who has run trucks will know if you half the cost of fuel the rates would be cut in no time as there are to many firms who will cut rates to get work or accept rates to get work.
In an ideal world fuel should be No more than a third of your turnover but I’d guess many people are looking at it been nearer 45 to50% of turnover at the moment.
The pressure on rates is an issue of capacity and demand for the service.You aren’t going to fix that situation by reducing the demand for road transport even more by pricing freight off the road with high road fuel taxes and adding even more capacity in the form of cheap rail freight that,unlike road transport,can run on red diesel.
44 Tonne Ton:
The price of fuel is irrelevant. If you are not charging your customers enough to cover your costs and give you an acceptable return on the work that’s your fault. If the customer won’t pay reasonable rates then why are you willing to subsidise his operation?
The customer is paying reasonable rates based on the market situation of supply and demand and factoring in the ability of rail freight to move freight cheaper using fuel which isn’t subject to road fuel taxation.Which just leaves the choice for road transport of compete,in an ever shrinking market sector,for work that rail freight can’t do,or shut down.However the definition of ‘compete’ in all types of industry means doing the same job as your competitors can do at a cheaper price.
But if you’re right then the government could just double the tax on road fuel from it’s existing level and it wouldn’t make any difference to the industry because operators could just put all the extra costs on their rates and all the customers will be happy to pay it instead of telling you to shove your services.
It depends on the product. Look at the set up muckaway uses low value goods that there is no we need it ASAP deadline shipping 1000 tons by train makes sense but what’s left of our manafacturing industurys and or retail industurys mainly rely on just in time delivery and that’s where road will always win no mater what the cost.
How much of the driver shortage in Canada and the USA is from compays expanding due to increases in the need for road transport compared to the driver shortage due to the fact lots of people don’t see long distance trucking as a appealing job.
kr79:
It depends on the product. Look at the set up muckaway uses low value goods that there is no we need it ASAP deadline shipping 1000 tons by train makes sense but what’s left of our manafacturing industurys and or retail industurys mainly rely on just in time delivery and that’s where road will always win no mater what the cost.
How much of the driver shortage in Canada and the USA is from compays expanding due to increases in the need for road transport compared to the driver shortage due to the fact lots of people don’t see long distance trucking as a appealing job.
Trust me it’s growth in the industry because it’s operating under a more road transport friendly (and non global warming bs believing) government.If the Canadians and the Americans were stupid enough to raise road fuel taxation to the point where the pump price reaches £1.50 per litre you can bet that it would have a similar (probably far worse considering the greater distances between population centres) knock on effect throughout the industry there as it has done here.
But I think that any so called driver shortages here have more to do with the fact that there’s more drivers who don’t want the aggro of driving a 40-44 tonner locally when they can do the same job driving a taxi cab instead rather than anyone not wanting to work doing long distance work in North America because of the distances involved.No surprise that it’s always been the long distance international sector of the uk industry that’s always been more in demand by drivers than zb local work.
But no ‘road won’t always win whatever the cost’ considering the intermodal choices available.