Own Account Driver:
It’s now looking very much like the brakes failed whilst in a width restriction. It’s hard to see outcomes that aren’t the driver and operator seeing jail time.
It looks like bin lorries could do with some safety mechanism
Assuming an adequate maintenance regime there is no ‘safety mechanism’ in the case of brake temperatures reaching the point where they can’t do their job of shedding heat energy faster than it is being put in.In addition to a driver training regime which teaches over reliance on brakes with terms like brakes to slow gears to go etc.Rather than them being seen as a finite resource that needs to be managed and conserved at all times.In which case the terminology should be gears to slow brakes and exhaust brake are there to either make sure the engine doesn’t over rev or for stopping with.
mc thackeray:
Just get the blody tipper driver off the road
Initial reports suggest the driver was trying to avoid an accident. Until mechanical failure is ruled out I think it’s unwise to persecute the driver. There could also have been a legitimate reason the vehicle was where it was.
He’s not going to come out well. Apparently he overtook another lorry as avoiding action in the course of the runaway. Obviously no-one knows how they will react in a crisis but this implies service brake failure or air loss took hold fairly early on down the hill when there would have been plenty of opportunity to plough it into a ditch or a field and although spring brakes might not bring it to a complete halt immediately if there’s a lot of momentum they are either going to take a lot of speed off or lock up the axle. If you throw in exhaust brake and lowest gear you might manage not too big a bump.
Unless he was delivering or collecting to somewhere on that hill I can’t see how it would be easy to explain away being in the width restriction.
mc thackeray:
Just get the blody tipper driver off the road
Initial reports suggest the driver was trying to avoid an accident. Until mechanical failure is ruled out I think it’s unwise to persecute the driver. There could also have been a legitimate reason the vehicle was where it was.
He’s not going to come out well. Apparently he overtook another lorry as avoiding action in the course of the runaway. Obviously no-one knows how they will react in a crisis but this implies service brake failure or air loss took hold fairly early on down the hill when there would have been plenty of opportunity to plough it into a ditch or a field and although spring brakes might not bring it to a complete halt immediately if there’s a lot of momentum they are either going to take a lot of speed off or lock up the axle. If you throw in exhaust brake and lowest gear you might manage not too big a bump.
Rolling down a hill out of control with a warning of same doesn’t suggest air loss.
Assuming it was a cooked brakes scenario any form of brake actuation,low gear and exhaust brake will do nothing.Except maybe the miraculous chance that it over revs the engine to the point where it blows up in a way which locks up the drives.
Which just leaves the question why would anyone choose to ‘overtake’ a truck ahead in that situation rather than try to use it as a barrier.
I’ve driven down that hill fully freighted you can definitely arrive at the bottom stationary without cooked brakes but, they will certainly have had a big workout though. I would be thinking more foot pedal valve or brake line failure.
Own Account Driver:
I’ve driven down that hill fully freighted you can definitely arrive at the bottom stationary without cooked brakes but, they will certainly have had a big workout though. I would be thinking more foot pedal valve or brake line failure.
Assuming the possibility of an actuation fault like valve failure etc etc then it at least seems a retrograde step to put the secondary actuation integral with the service on the same valve instead of the old system of a seperate secondary valve.As is still the case on US spec vehicles.
Assuming line failure/air loss then that’s what the spring brakes are there for to hopefully sort out.
As for wether the brakes cook or survive that is often a case of being in the right low enough gear and using the brakes as sparingly as possible and the exhaust brake as just a method of stopping the engine going into the red.
As opposed to possibly even already warm brakes at the top caused by the modern day brakes to slow gears to go idea and then any gear will do and rely/stay on the brakes throughout the decent.In which case it is then just a case of Russian Roulette as to wether the brakes survive or fry.
Regardless of wether this case turns out to have been unavoidable mechanical failure or cooked brakes the training regime really needs to re appraise the modern day idea of over reliance on brakes.As opposed to seeing brakes as a finite vulnerable resource which applies wether it is 1965 or 2015.On that basis of brakes to slow gears to go I’m surprised that Dewsbury town hall is still standing so far considering all the potential slowing points between it and the M1.As for the old Reigate Hill the result is anyone’s guess assuming it hadn’t long ago been bypassed by the M25.
Yes, but, a frank discussion on a forum, frequented by the people responsible for driving the vehicles involved, about how the situation can arise, best be prevented and more safely stopped might prevent others losing their lives. It’s a more lasting memory, for those sadly involved, than a string of RIPs from people they didn’t even know.
People often keep saying things like ‘at least wait until the investigation is done’ with these tragedies but why? No-one will learn anything useful as the story will be yesterday’s chip paper by then.
Own Account Driver:
Yes, but, a frank discussion on a forum, frequented by the people responsible for driving the vehicles involved, about how the situation can arise, best be prevented and more safely stopped might prevent others losing their lives. It’s a more lasting memory, for those sadly involved, than a string of RIPs from people they didn’t even know.
People often keep saying things like ‘at least wait until the investigation is done’ with these tragedies but why? No-one will learn anything useful as the story will be yesterday’s chip paper by then.
On that note I think we could do a lot worse than to try to get across the importance of conserving the brakes as much as possible to the newer generations of drivers who’ve possibly been brought up on that erroneous idea of brakes to slow gears to go.
Looking at the load, its’ colour doesn’t look “native” to the area. Aggregate around there is hard carb-limestone, purple in colour, (has Wick Quarry reopened?). That warm yellow colour looks like it’s come from the Cotswold area (Naunton, Daglingworth etc), so perhaps the driver was looking for a site along that road rather than rat running?
Regardless, it wont improve our image.
simon1958:
Sowerby Bridge incident a few years back… Yorkshire ring any bells?.. Bit of a parallel scenario.
A few years back may be an understatement!
I agree with Own Account Driver. A sensible discussion hurts no one and could help some people improve their driving. Sorry to sound slightly cold but people for pin the road every day, it’s horrible but its a fact. As long as respect is shown there’s no harm in discussing it
I think part of the problem is our training. We aren’t taught at all what to do in the event of an emergency and accidents like this will happen, investigation will occur and we only hear of the conclusion if someone reports it. There should be a way of passing results of investigations to drivers to learn from and for it to be incorporated into training. We are basically taught how to go forwards then off you toddle, you can drive now.
The MAIB (marine accident investigation branch) do that when any incidents happen at sea, they investigate the event, come to a conclusion as to why/when/how it happened and without naming the people/company they then publish their findings in a regularly published document available to any one.
mc thackeray:
Just get the blody tipper driver off the road
Initial reports suggest the driver was trying to avoid an accident. Until mechanical failure is ruled out I think it’s unwise to persecute the driver. There could also have been a legitimate reason the vehicle was where it was.
There probably is a legitimate reason but since when has that ever stopped internet forum experts who know exactly what happened and who’s to blame demanding swift action
Own Account Driver:
Yes, but, a frank discussion on a forum, frequented by the people responsible for driving the vehicles involved, about how the situation can arise, best be prevented and more safely stopped might prevent others losing their lives. It’s a more lasting memory, for those sadly involved, than a string of RIPs from people they didn’t even know.
People often keep saying things like ‘at least wait until the investigation is done’ with these tragedies but why? No-one will learn anything useful as the story will be yesterday’s chip paper by then.
On that note I think we could do a lot worse than to try to get across the importance of conserving the brakes as much as possible to the newer generations of drivers who’ve possibly been brought up on that erroneous idea of brakes to slow gears to go.
This is possibly one of the most sensible and important thing you have ever posted on here.
While it won’t bring those poor people back RIP.
raymundo:
The MAIB (marine accident investigation branch) do that when any incidents happen at sea, they investigate the event, come to a conclusion as to why/when/how it happened and without naming the people/company they then publish their findings in a regularly published document available to any one.
That’s the sort of thing I was thinking of, they do it for air traffic too. At its simplest form the investigation results could be distributed to operators by DVSA and then passed on to drivers. We can all learn from these these accidents and the mistakes and/or failures that led up to them.
ROG:
Are there any mechanics on here who can explain how a brake failure can occur on a LGV
The only thing I know is that if it looses the air then the brakes lock on but that’s the limit of my knowledge …
Many reasons but will list a few
Excessive brake wear, basically linings worn down to the rivets so there is very little brake effort. Most drivers would probably be unable to detect on daily checks and it might appear fine under normal conditions but deteriorate massively under heavy braking. (This was the cause of Sowerby Bridge it would seem)
Air loss, spring brakes will come on eventually but only act on drive axles and don’t have the force of service brakes.
On EBS systems electrical failures have been known to lead to total brake loss.
Pedal and foot valve issues all sorts of things like it getting stuck to breaking off.
Then overheating/cooked plus a load more.
If it does transpire to be poor maintenance issues it could be interesting in highlighting the flaws in OCRS.
What boils my ■■■■ is just looking on Twitter at all the different news outlets and agencies asking even begging people if they can use their pictures on their websites, news reports, papers etc. not giving a second thought to those who have perished, just more concerned in getting the best relevant information for their news feed.
I’m sorry to use this term but they’re like vultures around a dead carcass. I’d tell them to get ■■■■■■ and if they wanted a good picture maybe they should get their arse and do some reporting themselves
