fodenway:
What has that got to do with the EU? sounds more like the bent cucumber scare
Nothing directly, just another worry for those trying to find work in an area of high unemployment and under-investment. Ironically, the vast majority of those working there at present came from Eastern Europe to find work here.
I’d agree there is probably under investment in manufacturing industry in this country. Tax and other levers are available to National Governments to encourage this. Our Govs seem to choose not to do this, although they seem to allow vast profits to be made by short term ‘investors’ moving money around rapidly.
Look at how the current Gov members get their cash to work out what’s happening here.
Do other EU countries suffer the same way? So is the EU or our own Govs most at fault here?
gazsa401:
I’ll add one more if I may
Imperial Tobacco in Nottingham closed its last remaining UK manufacturing site in April 2016 after 127 years with the loss of over 500 well paid jobs
Production moved to Poland the main reasons for this were mostly down to EU meddling and sadly this caused Imperial Tobacco to rethink its UK manufacturing policy
I fail to see why Imperial would shift their factory from one EU country to another EU country ‘because of EU meddling’.
Perhaps they could see the writing on the wall and would rather operate inside the EU than outside it. Bigger customs free market.
The European Tobacco Products Directive banned the sale/production of cigarettes in packets of 10 along with the other categories of product produced at the Nottingham site. Gaszsa quite clearly mentioned that, but it doesn’t suit the holy grail of the EU being an all compassionate God to acknowledge that it has ever done anything evil, underhand, self agrandising, or with an ulterior motive which it wishes to remain secret.
gazsa401:
I’ll add one more if I may
Imperial Tobacco in Nottingham closed its last remaining UK manufacturing site in April 2016 after 127 years with the loss of over 500 well paid jobs
Production moved to Poland the main reasons for this were mostly down to EU meddling and sadly this caused Imperial Tobacco to rethink its UK manufacturing policy
I fail to see why Imperial would shift their factory from one EU country to another EU country ‘because of EU meddling’.
Perhaps they could see the writing on the wall and would rather operate inside the EU than outside it. Bigger customs free market.
The European Tobacco Products Directive banned the sale/production of cigarettes in packets of 10 along with the other categories of product produced at the Nottingham site. Gaszsa quite clearly mentioned that, but it doesn’t suit the holy grail of the EU being an all compassionate God to acknowledge that it has ever done anything evil, underhand, self agrandising, or with an ulterior motive which it wishes to remain secret.
He also quite clearly mentioned that they moved to another EU country, presumably under the same regs as Nottingham, so how is that down to EU meddling? Nothing to do with packets of 10, did they allow them in Poland and not in the UK. I don’t think so.
One clue might be in his mention of the ‘well paid jobs’ in Nottingham. Bet your life the Poles with their new found jobs did not get the same new found wealth.
Spardo:
One clue might be in his mention of the ‘well paid jobs’ in Nottingham. Bet your life the Poles with their new found jobs did not get the same new found wealth.
How does that fit the script that the EU is good for the workers ?.The CBI and the unions united in race to the bottom free market principles they couldn’t make it up.
Spardo:
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He also quite clearly mentioned that they moved to another EU country, presumably under the same regs as Nottingham, so how is that down to EU meddling? Nothing to do with packets of 10, did they allow them in Poland and not in the UK. I don’t think so.
One clue might be in his mention of the ‘well paid jobs’ in Nottingham. Bet your life the Poles with their new found jobs did not get the same new found wealth.
You either missed the point or choose to ignore it, that Nottingham was geared up almost solely to produce the banned products. Far better to offer some behind the scenes incentive to the company to invest in nice, toe the EU line Poland, than offer it anything towards new plant, especially considering those pesky English absolutely loathe the EU, having run headlines lampooning its ridiculous directives for years.
Now I can’t prove there was any skulldugery, but I expect you cannot prove the opposite, but the past evidence, already posted, indicates that the cap fits very well indeed.
Spardo:
[
He also quite clearly mentioned that they moved to another EU country, presumably under the same regs as Nottingham, so how is that down to EU meddling? Nothing to do with packets of 10, did they allow them in Poland and not in the UK. I don’t think so.
One clue might be in his mention of the ‘well paid jobs’ in Nottingham. Bet your life the Poles with their new found jobs did not get the same new found wealth.
You either missed the point or choose to ignore it, that Nottingham was geared up almost solely to produce the banned products. Far better to offer some behind the scenes incentive to the company to invest in nice, toe the EU line Poland, than offer it anything towards new plant, especially considering those pesky English absolutely loathe the EU, having run headlines lampooning its ridiculous directives for years.
Now I can’t prove there was any skulldugery, but I expect you cannot prove the opposite, but the past evidence, already posted, indicates that the cap fits very well indeed.
Franglais:
I’d agree there is probably under investment in manufacturing industry in this country. Tax and other levers are available to National Governments to encourage this. Our Govs seem to choose not to do this, although they seem to allow vast profits to be made by short term ‘investors’ moving money around rapidly.
Look at how the current Gov members get their cash to work out what’s happening here.
Do other EU countries suffer the same way? So is the EU or our own Govs most at fault here?
Yes we know that this country has had its manufacturing industry heart torn out in favour of an economy based on white collar,retail,catering and other service industry sectors.All that clearly being part of the remain agenda supported by the so called ‘intelligent’ white collar remain vote’ ( more like unproductive self interest rabble ) v the so called ‘thick’ blue collar leave vote.While if the EU was supposedly against ‘moving money around rapidly’ then the cornerstone of EU economic policy,in the form of the free movement of capital,seems like a strange way of doing it.Just like the free movement of low wage expectation labour taking those jobs that aren’t wiped out by the above rule and an open door import regime with China,including retailers of cheap Chinese products being protected by EU competition laws,seems like a strange idea of so called ‘protectionist’ policy.As would be expected of a corrupt lying self appointed rogue state take over of Europe.No surprise that self interest selfish greedy self interest traitors among the UK elites and their deluded brainwashed supporters would be happy to hand over our wealth creating manufacturing base to our European competitors.All dressed up under the bs claim that we’ll have to go to war with Germany again if we don’t kow tow to German ■■■■■■■■■■ of Europe.
The burden of proof is obviously on your side assuming you want to make the case to wipe out our established nation and national interest in favour of being a vassal state of the illegal,undeclared let alone recognised,non country of the stinking EU and its equally stinking flag.On that note as it stands I could really see the benefit in allying with Russia to smash it rather than fighting with it against Russia.
Juddian:
Came across this post, i found it on another bloggers site, apparently it was a comment on John Redwood MP’s site but not JR’s words though, the author was a fine chap going by the name of Captain Peacock.
I haven’t fact checked it, see what you think :
‘’…its worth reading when you hear May talking about British jobs. This is what the EU is doing for Britain.
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army’s new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK were closed eliminating 3,500 jobs.
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU ‘regeneration’ grants, (with job losses and closures)
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it’s Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn’t paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don’t even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven’t detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don’t even go there.
I haven’t mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that’s gone the other way, I’ve looked and I just can’t.
There you have it; take a moment to let that sink in… ‘’
I’ll add one more if I may
Imperial Tobacco in Nottingham closed its last remaining UK manufacturing site in April 2016 after 127 years with the loss of over 500 well paid jobs
Production moved to Poland the main reasons for this were mostly down to EU meddling and sadly this caused Imperial Tobacco to rethink its UK manufacturing policy
The EU banned the sale of packets of 10s within the EU from 2017
Italy Ireland and the UK were the main markets for 10s
The manufacturing of 10s was 30% of Nottingham’s output
The EU banned the sale of any hand rolling tobacco pouches under the weight of 30g
So 12.5g and 25g pouches were banned
The manufacturing of hand rolling tobacco accounted for around 25% of Nottingham’s output
The EU banned the sale and manufacturing of Menthol cigarettes
This accounted for around 15% of
Nottingham’s output
The Nottingham factory was the most efficient out of the 58 factories Imperial Tobacco operated throughout the world
The remaining percentage of production was for exports beyond the EU
According to Tobacco manufacturers association in
1990 UK smoked 99 billion cigs.
2014 UK smoked 34 billion cigs.
Happen a falling market has a lot to do with closing down a UK factory, sat on a very valuable piece of real estate too?
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
It wasn’t Imperial Tobaccos decision to stop manufacturing 10 packs of cigarettes or menthol cigarettes or hand rolling tobacco under 30g
It was the EUs decision
The land you suggested as valuable 58 acres is industrial and not residential plus it was built on a former tip site where over the years subsistence has happened
The land was sold to Henry Boot for £10m
Ps I worked there for 13 years and have firsthand experience of meddling by the EU
I won’t argue against any facts there. But since Mr Needham(?) of Imperial said the factory was closing because of over capacity in a falling market; and I’m confident that engineers are talented enough to enter packaging sizes, I think you’re accidentally making false connections.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
The Market was in a slight decline but Imperial cut its cloth accordingly each year as the workforce
annually reduced with in line to production procedures
My point being the sales of 10s were to be banned within the EU
The United Kingdom Ireland and Italy were the only countries within the EU that still sold 10 packs
Also the sale and manufacturing of Menthol cigarettes were to be banned along with the manufacture of hand rolling tobacco under 30g
All these products were in effect banned by a EU directive
Imperial Tobacco didn’t decide to cease making these products it was the
EU
This forced them to make a unexpected business decision to close the factory because if you’ve lost 70% of your business output you can’t remain competitive
What do you think Coca Cola would do if the EU banned the sale and manufacture of all Coke over 330ml
Do you think they’d have a production site in the UK ■■
After watchin todays Pm question time ,It is all a huge act IMO ,And we will be forced to stay in one way or the other,Until the EU eventually collapses right after bankrupting all of us.
Woeful times .
cav551:
No as I said it isn’t, but you prove otherwise.
I don’t have to. it’s you who are making the accusations and assumptions. You’ve already said you can’t prove it, so that’s all it is, assumptions.
Bad things happen, so blame the EU. It’s an old story, especially in this thread, when (if) the country finally leaves, the EU will be blamed again for forcing it to do so.
Having lived previously in Holland for 30yrs i can sympathise and say that they are not alone.Sweden has the same problems as Holland,as do many other countries.Its time that countries started taking care of themselves BEFORE contributing to the Brussels gravytrain of unelected parasites who live so far from the ‘‘real world’’ that they may as well be on another planet.
gazsa401:
I’ll add one more if I may
Imperial Tobacco in Nottingham closed its last remaining UK manufacturing site in April 2016 after 127 years with the loss of over 500 well paid jobs
Production moved to Poland the main reasons for this were mostly down to EU meddling and sadly this caused Imperial Tobacco to rethink its UK manufacturing policy
I fail to see why Imperial would shift their factory from one EU country to another EU country ‘because of EU meddling’.
Perhaps they could see the writing on the wall and would rather operate inside the EU than outside it. Bigger customs free market.
The European Tobacco Products Directive banned the sale/production of cigarettes in packets of 10 along with the other categories of product produced at the Nottingham site. Gaszsa quite clearly mentioned that, but it doesn’t suit the holy grail of the EU being an all compassionate God to acknowledge that it has ever done anything evil, underhand, self agrandising, or with an ulterior motive which it wishes to remain secret.
He also quite clearly mentioned that they moved to another EU country, presumably under the same regs as Nottingham, so how is that down to EU meddling? Nothing to do with packets of 10, did they allow them in Poland and not in the UK. I don’t think so.
One clue might be in his mention of the ‘well paid jobs’ in Nottingham. Bet your life the Poles with their new found jobs did not get the same new found wealth.
Poland had already had the 10 packet ban in place
The EU just stamped their authority on the 3 remaining countries that still sold 10 packs The UK Ireland and Italy
The production of cigarettes and hand rolling tobacco which the masters in the EU allowed to be manufactured transferred to Poland after May 2016 due to cheap labour compared with other Imperial Tobacco factories
If you look on YouTube you can see the reaction of the French workers at Imperials French factory when they were told the same fate as the Nottingham factory
The French workers held the management hostage and completely trashed the factory
Plus Spardo from previous conversations on different topics on Trucknet I presume you lived and worked in Nottingham and if so everyone in Nottingham knew it was a “well paid job “
I left a well paid job at Stirlands to have a even better well paid job at “Players “
I watched a practically hysterical Irish MEP saying that Mrs May could ‘stick her hard border where the Sun doesn’t shine.’ I understand that this may have been some time ago, I only saw it this week. I thought it was the Irish Prime Minister insisting on a hard border?
Some time ago I watched an FB post where Jacob Rees Mogg among others questioned Guy Verhofstadh about the Irish border problems. Mr Rees Mogg asked him where the problem was, saying that if the uk and Northern Ireland didn’t impose a hard border, why should the EU? His reply was that ‘the rules are the rules,’ nothing they could do about it…
It would be interesting to know why the EU doesn’t impose ‘the rule’ about any illegal immigrants being processed in the country of arrival, instead of sweeping them further north?
John West:
I watched a practically hysterical Irish MEP saying that Mrs May could ‘stick her hard border where the Sun doesn’t shine.’ I understand that this may have been some time ago, I only saw it this week. I thought it was the Irish Prime Minister insisting on a hard border?
Some time ago I watched an FB post where Jacob Rees Mogg among others questioned Guy Verhofstadh about the Irish border problems. Mr Rees Mogg asked him where the problem was, saying that if the uk and Northern Ireland didn’t impose a hard border, why should the EU? His reply was that ‘the rules are the rules,’ nothing they could do about it…
It would be interesting to know why the EU doesn’t impose ‘the rule’ about any illegal immigrants being processed in the country of arrival, instead of sweeping them further north?
It would also be interesting to know how an invalid illegal non declared de Jure,let alone recognised de Facto,therefore non existent State,thinks it has the right to impose any border to designate the resulting non existent Country of the so called self appointed EU.To the point of thinking that it can over rule an almost 100 year precedent of no so called ‘hard border’ being required between the two seperate de Facto internationally recognised countries of Eire and UK, on the British Isle of Ireland.To think we went to war over the Falklands but not the EU trying to take over both Ireland and the UK mainland.
John West:
I watched a practically hysterical Irish MEP saying that Mrs May could ‘stick her hard border where the Sun doesn’t shine.’ I understand that this may have been some time ago, I only saw it this week. I thought it was the Irish Prime Minister insisting on a hard border?
Some time ago I watched an FB post where Jacob Rees Mogg among others questioned Guy Verhofstadh about the Irish border problems. Mr Rees Mogg asked him where the problem was, saying that if the uk and Northern Ireland didn’t impose a hard border, why should the EU? His reply was that ‘the rules are the rules,’ nothing they could do about it…
It would be interesting to know why the EU doesn’t impose ‘the rule’ about any illegal immigrants being processed in the country of arrival, instead of sweeping them further north?
So you wouldn’t want any sort of border between the NI and Eire? (Assuming a hard Brexit)
Franglais:
So you wouldn’t want any sort of border between the NI and Eire? (Assuming a hard Brexit)
The fact that Eire is a different country not subject to UK rule means by definition that we’ve already got a ‘sort of border’ between us.You know the same ‘border’ which worked fine up to 1973.So what changes whether we are both non EU member states as then.Or both EU member states or only one of us is an EU member state.Bearing in mind that there is no legal basis giving the EU any right whatsoever to designate any border of its own not being a declared de Jure state let alone internationally recognised de Facto state in its own right.
gazsa401:
Plus Spardo from previous conversations on different topics on Trucknet I presume you lived and worked in Nottingham and if so everyone in Nottingham knew it was a “well paid job “
I left a well paid job at Stirlands to have a even better well paid job at “Players “
I have never doubted that Players paid well, but that only reinforces my view that you are mistaken as to the reason for the Polish move. Lower wages there was probably a major cause, not EU meddling, as you like to call it. It would probably have happened even if the EU had never existed. But, as with so many leavers, you seize on any unconnected ill to justify the the leaver cause.
