ERF-Continental:
I saw earlier input on differences (chassis-versus-cab-types) but didn’t notice
real existence of e.g. 6MV or 6MW…so why the jump to 7MV (doesn’t exist
neither according to this thread) …
Well, don’t wanna be harsh…here an example of an AFRICAN ERF in stead of
an EUROPEAN? What was the type then…5.1MW? lol
Guess the European was involved a lot into design of Scania’s-front, due to the
Belgian-importer who handled Scania since 1949? Just an idea…
More serious…a nice combination of double bottoms or turnspikes (US) indeed
These African cabs were locally made, although looking alot like a motor panels effort. Later types used on the B series utilised ERF parts such as grille and light panells, which gave them ERF-looks.
ERF-Continental:
I saw earlier input on differences (chassis-versus-cab-types) but didn’t notice
real existence of e.g. 6MV or 6MW…so why the jump to 7MV (doesn’t exist
neither according to this thread) …
As far as i can make out, W was set back axle, V was set forward axle, so:
3MV and 3MW were narrow, single-screen cabs(?). The 3MW would be the same as a Seddon or Guy, but with the ERF front panel.
4MV and 5MW were wide, split-screen cabs.
7MW was the ERF-developed tilting version with the “Scania” front panel. As far as I know, there was no 7MV.
You would have thought that the number would denote the length of the cab, so 5MV would be a forward-axle sleeper, like the Leicester Heavy Haulage example, but that is a 4MV and I cannot find any 5MV, 4MW or 6 anything on the internet. Someone post a definitive answer, because it’s driving me nuts.
Delighted to see an interest in the old ERF Europeans. There seems to be a little confusion here about the 5MW and 7MW. These were the names given to the Motor Panels cabs by ERF (the bow-fronted split-windscreen job being the 5MW and the Scania 140 lookalike being the 7MW. The 7MW (NGC 420) is easy to identify because it had its own chassis and cab and only came in LHD (except Pountains example, which was on an older chassis and originally had a 5MW cab). The 5MW cab appeared on the old chassis that the LV and MV day cabs normally went on; but the 5MW cab also appeared on the A-series chassis in RHD form and on a modified LHD version of the chassis later on and was called the MGC 380. It appears that the MGC 380, the NGC 420 and the early LHD B-series were all three launched as ‘Europeans’ but only the NGC 420 continued to be marketed under that name. I have written a book about the NGC 420 with the 7MW cab called ‘LORRIES OF ARABIA: THE ERF NGC 420’ (by Robert Hackford) It is now with Old Pond Publishing and should hopefully appear on the shelves this spring.
Great to see your contributions Cookie: you’ve insipired me to write to Trucknet after all these years.
Thank you Robert for explaining and announcing your book! I’m curious and know
what it is to write in between, being occupied myself with a book on “Denonville”
covering their automotive activities from 1922 towards early nineties.
I assume a lot of new details/pictures will be packed into your book!
Good luck and I guess your 2014 will be a nice one
Thank you! I’ll attempt to answer a couple of questions that have come up in recent blogs.
When and why did assembly of MGC 380s cease in Belgium? I think the answer to that is that in 1973/4 Britain entered the EEC (now the EU) and it was no longer necessary to send CKD kits abroad to avoid high import taxes. Thus, the new ERF NGC 420 was able to be shipped entirely intact with no penalties.
As for the old round-fronted cabs: I believe ‘M’ stood for ‘metal’ and the MV day cab was simply a metal alternative to the LV day cab (on the same chassis). The MW was the sleeper version and the 4MW had the wheels set forward, 5MW had the wheels set back and the 7MW was the sleeper with the boxy front.
robert1952:
Thank you! I’ll attempt to answer a couple of questions that have come up in recent blogs.
When and why did assembly of MGC 380s cease in Belgium? I think the answer to that is that in 1973/4 Britain entered the EEC (now the EU) and it was no longer necessary to send CKD kits abroad to avoid high import taxes. Thus, the new ERF NGC 420 was able to be shipped entirely intact with no penalties.
As for the old round-fronted cabs: I believe ‘M’ stood for ‘metal’ and the MV day cab was simply a metal alternative to the LV day cab (on the same chassis). The MW was the sleeper version and the 4MW had the wheels set forward, 5MW had the wheels set back and the 7MW was the sleeper with the boxy front.
I hope that makes sense!
Sort of… it tallies with this, IE a day cab with split screen and wheels forward is 4MV: flickr.com/photos/21437618@N02/3240963233/
What is a 3MV/W, then? Is it the narrow “Seddon” version, with the single screen? Which version is that blue South African log carrier? Is the Australian livestock drawbar a 2MW?
As far as I know, all MV cabbed vehicles seemed to have the set forward axle, so presumably they didn’t require a prefix number. As for the sleeper MW cabbed units, I only know about the 4, 5 and 7MW versions. I believe the 3MW was a rare NZ export variant and I’ve never heard of a 2MW. In any case, it doesn’t pay to seek too much logic in ERF’s classification systems, which were apt to change overnight and were not always entirely consistent!
Whatever the variations, I have to say the NGC 420 does it for me: quite my favourite '70s tractive unit and I’d quite happily drive the standard version of it (■■■■■■■ NTC 335 & 9-speed Fuller Road-ranger) to China and back!
A great thread this. Both the MV and MW were popular trucks here in NZ and would have been on top of the job,early MV’s had ■■■■■■■ 160,220 and 250’s The MW’s had ■■■■■■■ 250,310 and 335’s,there were also some with Gardner power. There weren’t any 7MW’S here.
Here’s a n 8x4 5MW that I found yesterday with a 250 ■■■■■■■■■■■■■ parked up now out of use.
3300John:
Hiya …look at the Jordan lorries. MW forward axle.the mv was a day cab…the mw sleeper cab…also mentioned is a (rare) mw single curved screen.
John
Thanks John. That clears it up. Ignore my previous attempts to make sense of it! The numbers just refer to the different details, like axle position etc: 4 is forward axle, 5 is set back axle, 7 is tilt cab. What is 3?
Strictly speaking, those Jordanian Phosphate vehicles were not ‘Europeans.’ ERF made many left-hand-drive units with 4MW, 5MW, B-series and C-series cabs, none of which were ‘Europeans’. The real Europeans were those LHD units specced specifically for the high standards required for trans-European work by Continental operators, so they were really confined to those post-1971 5MWs, 7MWs (NGC 420s) and B-series that were built for export to France, Holland, Switzerland and Belgium. R
ERF-Continental:
We might argue as well as (dis-)like the requirement an operator might have to stick to ERF or move
on to other continentals, for that reason we have 365 new days ahead. Belgians have other reasons
and contacts than Dutchmen and so on…to be continued. It’s a matter of taste and economics still
For now an interesting article in Motor Transport from may 1977, sorry I had to split the large page in
order to scan it, but I am confident one can read better now.
That Richard Read unit along with Eric Vick did North African work . regards Keith .
I wasn’t aware that any of the Richard Read / Vick NGC 420s got to North Africa: I’m intrigued! Have you any more details on this, such as which countries (Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia…)? I love these little nuggets of info: useful to add into the book at the last minute if necessary! Robert
robert1952:
Strictly speaking, those Jordanian Phosphate vehicles were not ‘Europeans.’ ERF made many left-hand-drive units with 4MW, 5MW, B-series and C-series cabs, none of which were ‘Europeans’. The real Europeans were those LHD units specced specifically for the high standards required for trans-European work by Continental operators, so they were really confined to those post-1971 5MWs, 7MWs (NGC 420s) and B-series that were built for export to France, Holland, Switzerland and Belgium. R
Hiya… know one said they was, infact it was said earlier they was not. the European was one and only one model.
the discution has spread into what was know as the Belgium cab and the differance between MV and MW cabs.
i think the first batch of Jordanain MW’s was built in 1968…I see you mention High standard requirements on the 7 MW.
was that a sunvisor and possibly aircon.
John
There are some excellent articles on the ‘Belgian cab’ 5MWs by Wobbe Reitsma in back numbers of REVS magazine (though he doesn’t refer to them as Belgian cab units, I think that was an English thing). Robert
Good to mention the REVS-articles of Wobbe Reitsma…could you scan/input them here?
In that way everybody might read and proceed with that interesting information.
Good to mention the REVS-articles of Wobbe Reitsma…could you scan/input them here?
In that way everybody might read and proceed with that interesting information.
Would be great, not intended to hurry you
A-J
I can oblige with regard to evidence for the three ‘European’ models as follows:
There appears to have been three ‘European’ models: the 5MW-cabbed version, the 7MW-cabbed version (NGC 420) and the B-series version. All three of these, in left-hand-drive form, were launched by ERF as ‘Europeans’, but only the NGC 420 appears to have been continuously marketed with that name. For a brief period during 1976/7 all three were built alongside each other. These ‘Europeans’ were all left-hand-drive, upgraded long-haul models which were designed very specifically for the European market. References to the launch of the 5MW ‘European’ appear in ERF’s in-house magazine, Chassis, issue no.18 summer 1971. ERF’s own Earls Court 1972 brochure (first page at the bottom)says: ERF model MGG380 38-ton GTW “European” two axle tractor unit. References to the launch of the B-series ‘European’ appear in an article by Phil Read in Motor Transport 20th May 1977.
Evening all, Gentlemen this thread becomes more interesting as each day goes by!
1990 there was a (rusting) 7MW languishing just outside Aberwystwyth, I believe without engine. What ever happened to this chassis cab, anyone know?
The saga of Michael Jones, and David Hughes, (S Jones)
trying to source 7MWs for Trans Arabia is worthy of a long discourse.....the sheer incompetence of ERFs Management, and total lack of comprehension of potential market volumes is breath taking…but is this a story so common with UK manufacturers whatever the industry!
I remember my great friend Pat, (Kennetts), resignation that no one in the UK lorry manufacturing business could see further than our old colonies, let alone our nearest neighbours in Europe. A sentiment that I could heartily endorse, for my good friends at Nubag AG in Switzerland, were in awe of the operational reputation of the ERFs in Swiss service, in terms of performance/reliability/economy of operation…good job for us at Saviem/Berliet that ERF threw in the towel !!!
I`m away to my Bollinger, for Shropshire is awash…and tomorrow we have to lift the finest Estyma potatoe from our muddy ground…but unlike ERF…we do not give in!!!
Whatever the variations, I have to say the NGC 420 does it for me: quite my favourite '70s tractive unit and I’d quite happily drive the standard version of it (■■■■■■■ NTC 335 & 9-speed Fuller Road-ranger) to China and back!
