cookie1, you have brought back some memories for me about Trans Arabian. I suspect that it was David Hughes who talked Michael Jones into this venture, on the back of a lot of promises from OCL!
I believe that it made some serious money for the Group at one time…just as cash was flowing away in another. Am I correct in my recollection that Cliff Hardwick`s, (Opal Tankers, Fryers Rd Bloxwich, Uk agent for Magyr tanks), son went out to Saudi in some managerial role?
I recall that David and Michael offered ERF, (I think that Cyril Acton was still MD at the time, or it could have been the ex ■■■■■■■ guy…whose name escapes me at the moment…Brian ■■?)! the largest order from any operator for 335 Europeans, for Trans Arabia, and the answer was …no you cannot have them!!! Hence the second hands, the MWs and LVs. And of course your Macks!
ERF-Continental, one you have missed in Belgium, Marcel Coulior ran a 335 European on the Gas tanks, sourced for him via Humphries @ Calor Gas in the UK. Somewhere I have a photograph with the registration number. Came back as a part exchange on a big fleet deal for TR280 Berliets into Antwerp.
Your posts remind me of so many Belgium operators that I knew, and just how much I loved working there…6 day bike races, Kermesse, chips and mayonnaise,…but not the rain!!
ERF-Continental:
And now for dinner, but first this wrecker of Beresford!
Just to say, that beresford wrecker is an imposter! At a vintage show back in the early 90s, I crawled underneath that very vehicle and found a Foden 12 speed gearbox. I have reason to believe it was a 5mw cab fitted on a Foden chassis. I will have to speak to an old mate of mine who worked for Beresfords and would’ve seen this vehicle.
I think your right about the Beresford wrecker, i remember reading somthing along those lines some time ago, may even have been on TN. Fitted with a Gardner 180. Chris.
Anybody know what became of the Beresford wrecker?? Did it go to Bassetts after the take-over or did it go to the Beresford surplus sale soon after? They still ran the very 1st B series built at that time, it was the one shown at Earlscourt in 74’ fitted with an 8LXB 240. This was sold at the sale to REVS member Andy Ping, but not sure if he still has the vehicle today?.
Chris.
ERF-Continental:
As promissed herewith some information out of Commercial Motor of 1972 dealing with ERF in particular!
A-J
Thanks for your contribution. It is always a pleasure to learn about things from abroad. That 1972 Commercial Motor article, if I am not mistaken, details the first of ERF’s ultimately doomed attempts to establish themselves in Europe. If I remember correctly, they also had a go with the B series in France, then the E and EC in Spain. The Belgian effort appears to be their best effort, utilising local assembly to overcome import taxes and local patriotic prejudice, albeit a decade or so late, compared to the Swedish and other British makes.
The article does not make it clear which cabs the first Belgian ERFs had- were they the plastic LV type or steel MW? The caption by the photograph on the 3rd page says that the cab on the first vehicle supplied had been replaced with the MW type shown. Was it the MW cab which was the source of the complaint about leaks and draughts?
A question for “general” ERF experts- when did ERF first build MW-cabbed chassis?
The second page of the article says that ERF was in the process of redesigning the interior of the cab, to overcome criticism of that aspect of the vehicle. Presumably, this work resulted in the 7MW Continental version, with the “Scania” front panel.
When did the Belgian ERF assembly operation stop, and why?
This may answer some of my questions- a 5MW-cabbed NH220-engined rigid was shown at Brussels in 1969: archive.commercialmotor.com/arti … ssels-show
This suggests that all of the ERFs supplied to Belgian operators had Motor Panels cabs. The faults must have been severe, to persuade the importer to replace the complete cab on the vehicle in the 1972 article.
Thank you for this fresh input…I have been told (perhaps tippers etc were not involved)
that plastic (so LV) was not allowed to enter for example Germany, due to some worries
with electrical devices as well as safety (collisions) in general. In 1975 that ‘problem’ was
no longer an issue as I then often joined trips with a ERF-B towards Germany. So it might
be the steel version from the very first moment. Delcon was perhaps ‘activating’ some pos-
sible problems which Sandbach-HQ did want to prevent ending in warranty and claims?
I assume (will try to verify) that assembly of the Belgian-ERF ended the moment the 7MW
equivalent to NG-series came on the market early 1972 and were fully assembled in UK to
my opinion. ■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium (previous Ets. A. Denonville) did a lot on general
assemly as for White/Autocar and in early days also with Scania-Vabis, for which they were
importer from 1949 towards 1979 when bought back by the Swedish…
ERF-Continental:
[zb] anorak…and other ‘general’ ERF-experts
I assume (will try to verify) that assembly of the Belgian-ERF ended the moment the 7MW
equivalent to NG-series came on the market early 1972 and were fully assembled in UK to
my opinion.
3300John might know something about this, having been involved with the building of the MW cabs. The ones for CKD export may have been fitted to some sort of carriage frame, to withstand the long journey without damage. If they were, and this stopped after the introduction of the 7MW, then it would suggest that all cabs of the later type went onto Sandbach-assembled chassis.
ERF-Continental:
Been to fast…eager for 2014 perhaps…
The trips with ERF-B-series to/from Germany started since the
introduction of the sleeper-version in 1977. Just to be correct.
Given the drivers’ dislike of the MW cabs mentioned in the CM article, how did that B series compare to the Continental makes of the time, through Belgian eyes- Scania 111, Berliet TR280, MAN 16.280 etc?
We might argue as well as (dis-)like the requirement an operator might have to stick to ERF or move
on to other continentals, for that reason we have 365 new days ahead. Belgians have other reasons
and contacts than Dutchmen and so on…to be continued. It’s a matter of taste and economics still
ERF-Continental:
We might argue as well as (dis-)like the requirement an operator might have to stick to ERF or move
on to other continentals, for that reason we have 365 new days ahead. Belgians have other reasons
and contacts than Dutchmen and so on…to be continued. It’s a matter of taste and economics still
For now an interesting article in Motor Transport from may 1977, sorry I had to split the large page in
order to scan it, but I am confident one can read better now.
That Richard Read unit along with Eric Vick did North African work . regards Keith .
ERF-Continental, one you have missed in Belgium, Marcel Coulior ran a 335 European on the Gas tanks, sourced for him via Humphries @ Calor Gas in the UK. Somewhere I have a photograph with the registration number. Came back as a part exchange on a big fleet deal for TR280 Berliets into Antwerp.
Your posts remind me of so many Belgium operators that I knew, and just how much I loved working there…6 day bike races, Kermesse, chips and mayonnaise,…but not the rain!!
Cheerio for now, and a happy New Year.
First of all also for you and your relatives a TOP-2014!! Thank you for inputting Marcel Coulier, I did not know they had
an ERF on board…and moreover, the had excellent contacts at Van Hool, their supplier for tankers but also for FIAT
which were imported/assembled/distributed by a daughter-company of Van Hool named Catrabel, in Koningshooikt,
some miles form Lier in region Antwerp.
Nice you appreciated hanging around in Belgium despite the rain…
I’ve been sniffing around the internet for details of MV/MW ERFs, and found this Australian site: hcvc.com.au/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1279540420
About 2/3 down the page is a livestock carrier, with what appears to be the narrower Seddon/Guy type of cab.
[zb]
anorak:
I’ve been sniffing around the internet for details of MV/MW ERFs, and found this Australian site: hcvc.com.au/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1279540420
About 2/3 down the page is a livestock carrier, with what appears to be the narrower Seddon/Guy type of cab.
Best wishes for 2014!!! Only the first day and I start learning again…interesting website and search:
3MV, 3MW, 4MV, 4MW, 5MV, 5MW, did ‘they’ skip 6MV and 6MW and finalized with 7MW (I never noticed an 7MV till now)
Well good to summarize all info into a register, to be continued and approved…
[zb]
anorak:
I’ve been sniffing around the internet for details of MV/MW ERFs, and found this Australian site: hcvc.com.au/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1279540420
About 2/3 down the page is a livestock carrier, with what appears to be the narrower Seddon/Guy type of cab.
Best wishes for 2014!!! Only the first day and I start learning again…interesting website and search:
3MV, 3MW, 4MV, 4MW, 5MV, 5MW, did ‘they’ skip 6MV and 6MW and finalized with 7MW (I never noticed an 7MV till now)
Well good to summarize all info into a register, to be continued and approved…
Somewhere on this forum, there is a post which lists all the MV/MW derivatives, with a description. I think.
I saw earlier input on differences (chassis-versus-cab-types) but didn’t notice
real existence of e.g. 6MV or 6MW…so why the jump to 7MV (doesn’t exist
neither according to this thread) …
Well, don’t wanna be harsh…here an example of an AFRICAN ERF in stead of
an EUROPEAN? What was the type then…5.1MW? lol
Guess the European was involved a lot into design of Scania’s-front, due to the
Belgian-importer who handled Scania since 1949? Just an idea…
More serious…a nice combination of double bottoms or turnspikes (US) indeed
At a vintage show back in the early 90s, I crawled underneath that very vehicle and found a Foden 12 speed gearbox. I have reason to believe it was a 5mw cab fitted on a Foden chassis. I will have to speak to an old mate of mine who worked for Beresfords and would’ve seen this vehicle.
