ERF 'European' (1975)

zb_anorak · 8 January 2014 23:55

Saviem:
Evening all, Gentlemen this thread becomes more interesting as each day goes by!

1990 there was a (rusting) 7MW languishing just outside Aberwystwyth, I believe without engine. What ever happened to this chassis cab, anyone know?

The saga of Michael Jones, and David Hughes, (S Jones)

trying to source 7MWs for Trans Arabia is worthy of a long discourse.....the sheer incompetence of ERFs Management, and total lack of comprehension of potential market volumes is breath taking…but is this a story so common with UK manufacturers whatever the industry!

I remember my great friend Pat, (Kennetts), resignation that no one in the UK lorry manufacturing business could see further than our old colonies, let alone our nearest neighbours in Europe. A sentiment that I could heartily endorse, for my good friends at Nubag AG in Switzerland, were in awe of the operational reputation of the ERFs in Swiss service, in terms of performance/reliability/economy of operation…good job for us at Saviem/Berliet that ERF threw in the towel !!!

I`m away to my Bollinger, for Shropshire is awash…and tomorrow we have to lift the finest Estyma potatoe from our muddy ground…but unlike ERF…we do not give in!!!

Bon chance mes Braves

Cheerio for now.

This inspires an intriguing idea: while, with hindsight, we consider the knife-and-fork efforts of the British engineers becoming overrun by Continental sophistication, was there not a small but significant niche in such a large market for assembled-from-components vehicles? If the likes of ERF and Foden had made a decent stick of introducing their simple, easy-to-fix vehicles into European markets, would the vertically-integrated approach have prevailed so exclusively?

I would speculate not- with sufficient investment in dealerships, service back-up etc, ERF may have gained sufficient market share in all European markets to make the business sustainable. Inevitably, with pressure from these customers, the product would have evolved closer to the Continental norm in terms of driver appeal. Maybe the eventual demise of the British assemblers was as much to do with limp-wristed marketing as technical crudity in the product.

erf-continental · 9 January 2014 18:39

Thank you Robert for explaining and adding…to be honest I was never been very positive about REVS,
hardly informative, hardly (not to say no) content on their website and none activity when it comes to
spares, documentation (or are manuals/brochures no longer seldom and required) and picture-gallery.

Might have to do with entry on their website when you are (and will remain unattracted) a guest…

Will try to find my country-fellow Wobbe…to share info and pictures on NGC’s out of Benelux…

No doubt to be followed

robert1952 · 9 January 2014 19:17

ERF-Continental:
Thank you Robert for explaining and adding…to be honest I was never been very positive about REVS,
hardly informative, hardly (not to say no) content on their website and none activity when it comes to
spares, documentation (or are manuals/brochures no longer seldom and required) and picture-gallery.

Might have to do with entry on their website when you are (and will remain unattracted) a guest…

Will try to find my country-fellow Wobbe…to share info and pictures on NGC’s out of Benelux…

No doubt to be followed

I hear your frustration ERF-Continental. Some of my most valuable input has come from colleagues like you on the continent. Wobbe Reitsma and I exchanged dozens of emails while I was putting the book together and he was wonderfully helpful and informative. But I also promised Wobbe and other Dutch and French contributors that I would not stick all their pictures and quotations on the internet. If you are patient, much will be happily revealed in ‘Lorries of Arabia: The ERF NGC 420’. In the meantime, perhaps we should invite Wobbe to contribute to this debate on Trucknet in person!

Incidentally, I very recently placed a quantity of my photos on the ‘Astran / Middle-East drivers’ thread (pages 208-210+). While I was discussing the Middle-East run I tentatively brought up the subject of ERF NGC 420s on Middle-East work (of which I know there were many, hence the title of my book), and a few interesting responses are emerging, il-Hamdulillah! Robert

3300john · 9 January 2014 19:58

Hiya

robert1952 · 9 January 2014 20:40

3300John:
Hiya…dose anyone have the production figuers for Scania or Volvo in maybe 1970 ■■?
Secondly any idea how many workes there was at the plants producing various models.
we all know if you wanted a F88 the biggest question was do you want a 8 or 16 speed, take it or leave it.
some costomers would have any spec there was to get hold of one.
John

This is an interesting question to place on a thread about ERF Europeans. But actually, it is most relevant: during the '70s and '80s nearly everyone wanted as many gears as they could get: the more gears your lorry had, the bigger your genitalia! I’m being flippant and taking the proverbial, but you get my drift. I think that drivers during that period (and I was one of them, if only part-time) fell into two categories on this one: those who loved the flexibility that splitter gears gave, especially with lower-powered engines; and those who much preferred a stick-change for every gear-shift. In those days I thought splitters were the DB and thought anything else was for girlies. With hindsight, of course, all those awful syncromesh 'boxes with even worse splitter mechanisms were a disaster. In those days a 9-speed Fuller constant-mesh 'box was slicker and more effective than anything on the planet at 40-tonnes. The 13-speed version of it was vastly over-rated: after all, it was only a 9-speed Fuller with overdriver. All the slickness was completely taken out of it because the splitter mechanism was a primative hit-and-miss affair. Over the years, I’ve gradually admitted to myself that a stick-shift for every change 'box is vastly preferable. For this reason, the only syncromesh lorry gearbox I’ll put up with is the old Scania 10-speed arrangement, and only then if it is in a left-hand-drive lorry, where it is much more comfortable to use! Which brings us back to your question: do you want an 8 or 16-speed 'box, take it or leave it. Bless you all, Robert

erf-continental · 9 January 2014 21:12

I am open to have contact with Wobbe, respectively you…strange REVS did not show a lot of interest in
old manuals, brochures and even complete volumes of “chassis”…but let’s keep that behind us. Even a very
limitated copy/example of the 60th anniversary 1993 (only 100 specimen) was ignored…it’s still available…

Look forward to your book and expertise…a register on NGC might be a nice harvest…I know Holland is
small but we were keen on the pERFormance ERF might bring despite lack of service out of Benelux, however
the operators took care of it themselves…avoiding discussions who was to blame…■■■■■■■■ Eaton, etc as
all those refused to accept claims …with a total loss at the end when ERF collapsed under arrogancy, sorry!

The Germans showed patience during internal battles and attacked strongly…regretable though, the piece of
cake is now devided by only 6 companies whereas ERF should be one of these six!!!

robert1952 · 9 January 2014 21:56

ERF-Continental:
I am open to have contact with Wobbe, respectively you…strange REVS did not show a lot of interest in
old manuals, brochures and even complete volumes of “chassis”…but let’s keep that behind us. Even a very
limitated copy/example of the 60th anniversary 1993 (only 100 specimen) was ignored…it’s still available…

Look forward to your book and expertise…a register on NGC might be a nice harvest…I know Holland is
small but we were keen on the pERFormance ERF might bring despite lack of service out of Benelux, however
the operators took care of it themselves…avoiding discussions who was to blame…■■■■■■■■ Eaton, etc as
all those refused to accept claims …with a total loss at the end when ERF collapsed under arrogancy, sorry!

The Germans showed patience during internal battles and attacked strongly…regretable though, the piece of
cake is now devided by only 6 companies whereas ERF should be one of these six!!!

Bekijk het altijd van de zonnige kant, jongen! The Dutch, Belgian and French contribution to ERF history abroad is well-represented in my book. You’ll see! ERF back-up and infrastructure failed them, yes. Brilliant but thirsty ■■■■■■■ 335s didn’t help. But drivers in the Benelux countries loved the NGC 420 units more than than the B-series, even if the operators didn’t! Gelukkig niewjaar! Robert

erf-continental · 10 January 2014 12:13

Robert,

We’ll continue in Dutch or Flemish? Compliments for trying…and it was good

I am positive but doubt sometimes when clubs don’t walk the talk, but let’s forget.

Messrs Bestebreurtje and Denonville did their utmost to move on the Europeans in
order to make things really happen and show confidence and out of the box thinking.

I am sure you’ll have given a lot of attention in your book.

Have a good weekend!

Note: in case one is looking for specific documentation/manuals on ERF, don’t hesitate
to enquire…perhaps I might be of assistance via this thread, prices are friendly too.

bma_finland · 10 January 2014 18:09

erf-continental · 10 January 2014 18:33

@bma.finland

top-drawing…referring to Dutch or French colors?

Nice weekend in SF

robert1952 · 11 January 2014 13:42

bma.finland:
0

This is a great drawing, with nice attention to detail! Thank you for posting this.

Robert

erf-continental · 11 January 2014 14:53

With (indirect) permission of Leo Mes…I hope I’ll get away with it

Picture of Vermeulen Transport, Dutch company, handling and moving
everything…and to my knowledge they operated some 3 NGC’s and
later B-series. Are there pictures of (subby for) Damco-GG (Goedkoop
& De Geus) NGÃ‡'s frequently towards/from Germany with blue cabs and
yellow writing…to be absorbed into Nedlloyd-company later?

3300john · 15 January 2014 15:37

Hiya

3300john · 15 January 2014 15:47

[quote="3300John

3300john · 15 January 2014 15:53

Hiya.

rigsby · 15 January 2014 16:13

i had forgotten about turners steel cabs john , even though i was a contributor to one of them . 6 months after they bought the first one , i wrote the h reg lv off and they replaced it with the second one . they had the 250 ■■■■■■■ in them iirc . cheers , dave

3300john · 15 January 2014 17:07

[quote=“rigsby”

zb_anorak · 15 January 2014 17:25

robert1952:

bma.finland:
0

This is a great drawing, with nice attention to detail! Thank you for posting this.

Robert

If the cover of your book can be changed at this late stage, how about a drawing of an NGC420 with the book’s title and the author’s name as part of the vehicle’s livery?

rigsby · 15 January 2014 18:18

i’m not sure about cells plural , 'er indoors reckons if i had two braincells i’d be twice as brainy . just an aside to writing the lv off , i also wrote that horrible abortion of a hoyner trailer off at the same time . i don’t do half a job !

robert1952 · 15 January 2014 19:50

[zb]
anorak:

robert1952:

bma.finland:
0

This is a great drawing, with nice attention to detail! Thank you for posting this.

Robert

If the cover of your book can be changed at this late stage, how about a drawing of an NGC420 with the book’s title and the author’s name as part of the vehicle’s livery?

Ho-ho! Nice idea! But I have a small handful of Middle-East bound NGC 420s complete with visors and Kaysors to play with…
Robert