Carryfast:
…Blah blah blah…it was all too late for the Brits while the imports were then able to take advantage.As for me I’d really have liked to see Pat Kennet’s views concerning that last of the line 1977 320 Big Cam powered 13 speed 420 which I would have provided for the test having turned down his original request a couple of years earlier.
It was too late, so delay it another two years? A new lunacy appears to have taken hold. From wanting a more powerful engine in a 1973 lorry, you are now suggesting that the vehicle had a less powerful one four years later. Why not delay the venture another ten years and fit the vehicles with Gardner 180s?
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Yet another example of Anorak and unfortunately the British truck manufacturing industry logic at the time.
By ‘delay’ I meant don’t bother with submitting an obsolete wagon built with 1960’s technology in the form of the small cam ■■■■■■■ and 9 speed fuller for a road test in the mid 1970’s against the 1970’s Euro/Scandinavian opposition.It’s those like you who did all the real ‘delaying’ by waiting until the early 1980’s to use Big Cam 320 engines or only using 13 speed fuller boxes on and as and when they felt like it basis which obviously wasn’t in this case.As for that being supposedly ‘less powerful’ than the old small cam as used it’s all about the overall combination of fuel efficiency and performance.
In which case a 320 Big Cam was the right option for the job but as I said anything up to 400 was available and it’s my bet that a 320-400 Big Cam would have been more fuel efficient than the old nail Small Cam that was used especially when it was put with the right transmission in the form of the 13 speed.But of course in your world we’re going to have to wait until at least the 1980’s for that.In which case don’t bother because by then the Euros and Scandinavians have taken all of your potential customers except for those in the colonies who were either prepared to wait or just bought American wagons instead.
I have lots to contribute and I’m on a flying visit to UK and STILL I cannot upload anything whatsoever (just type bits in) - I keep getting ‘You don’t have permission to access/phpBB/posting.php on this server.’ \It also says ‘403 error’ next to the TruckNet symbol. Is this a TruckNet problem? Really frustrated, Robert
robert1952:
I have lots to contribute and I’m on a flying visit to UK and STILL I cannot upload anything whatsoever (just type bits in) - I keep getting ‘You don’t have permission to access/phpBB/posting.php on this server.’ Is this a TruckNet problem? Really frustrated, Robert
Wierd. Have you tried using another person’s computer? I was able to use Trucknet on holiday, using the machines in the hostels. Flag the post using the “!” icon, so the good people of Trucknet are alerted to the problem.
For the ones who like to research more on the technical part, I attach a survey of Transport Engineer
which deals with ‘neutral’ figures on different continental/non-continental marques and maintenance.
Let’s avoid we are hanging ourselves by one nut being not tightened well to break down a marque totally!
Enjoy reading and searching. Feel free to adapt it for other threads and comments. Regrettably I can’t
discover a date or some copy-rights, but I assume it’s a valid survey then.
Evening all, ERF-Continental, a valid document from the Institute of Road Transport Engineers, a worthy organisation, and speaking as a member, one whose data can be relied upon.
Robert 1952, I also have problems with posting, mine shows as 404, blooming frustrating, and would appear to be Trucknet uk only! Drives this geriatric as mad as the never ending rain…and the equal deluge of banal EEC farming documents that I have to fill in each week!!!
The olive green ERF was from Holland as per my previous post regarding the Dutch Dealers “fire sale” of Bserie, plus parts, and the used Continental.
Enjoyable thread this…
Robert those Egypt`s can never grow spuds like us Shropshiremen!!!
@Saviem: thank you for your acknowledgement on “Transport Engineer”…by the way, we (Robert and myself) are
researching/proceeding on where the Dutch ERF’s went…the olive green is however strange…and will have had
a repaint before starting a second/third life somewhere. Best regards, A-J
The Transport Engineer report appears to date from about 1978, judging by its apparent reference to the ■■■■■■■ Big Cam engine.
The British-built engines win hands down, even as their customers were turning to the Continetals in droves. I wonder how much advantage the GB engines enjoyed, as a result of operator unfamiliarity with the foreign ones? One can imagine that fitters, accustomed to the foibles of a known engine, would be better-placed to do preventative maintenance. Did a bit of parochial pride colour the operators’ views, I wonder? If the products of Patricroft and Shotts were as good as the report suggests, the failure of the GB lorry manufacturers to market them successfully in Europe is remarkable.
Were any similar surveys done in Europe? How would the ■■■■■■■ and Gardner engines compare to the established makes on the Continent, if Continental operators were asked?
hey, a bit of line but…
Yanks and Brits on the continent.
1, There has been Always a barrier between the US and the Brits to the Continent (maybe the sea )
2, But after war we needed power engines and engines and ■■■■■■■ and gardner could deliver.
3, The same for trucks the US and GB could deliver.
4, The US went away Dollar too high and not comfortable.
5, Who had money bought new and only the US and GB could deliver,but we go on with the British.
All were here on the market not only the big ones but maudslay and other too.
Gardner here,think they had competitors too as Bernard and deutz for build in engines. And for power they couldn’t deliver look at Miese they began to affer other. But the British delivered and delivered and never developed as Euro’s did. So in the '50’s the Euro’s began to recover,and the Sweeds saw they had to expand so the Benelux was the first victim and it was the market were the britsh were strongest in Europ. So what happend here was that Leyland bought marques up so thay all disappered, and give their knowledge to competitor as Scania, daf etc…which developed it further. And Leyland didn’t self developed for our market and the worst they killed off AEC who had a strong market because they were most adoptable for our market.
So the british lost and lost and come back is more difficult.
Look at Fiat which sold lots here and to big fleets,but after bad experience disappeared completly. So they changed name in Iveco but never could come back we all called it still a Fiat,so don’t buy it.
Once lost the battle to the strong Europians its for ever.
I Always liked the British-US system,you bought the marque you wanted but said that marque of engine and box. But that didn’t work here.
Here a moment all were dreaming off an F89 with a Scania 140 cab. But we had truck builders and not parts builders
So come back in the '70’s was too late and if you haven’t a dealer network too.
But maybe we have to look at the Transcontinental which was a compleet other story,it was direct accepted in Germany.
The TM was never accepted was it the 2 stroke maybe■■? but it couldn’t get foot on earth in Germany. I think Italian was their best market because of powered engines.
Only my opinion.
Getting back to Manfred; He took a Swiss reg wagon+D tilt down to Tehran. When he unloaded,they nicked his sideboards from his tilt & said they were part of the load. Manfred bashed 'em & got his slats back. They called the police who took away his passport. He had to report to the German Embassy every day. After six months an Irani peddlar sold him a bottle of whiskey.It turned to be fake. A few days later Manfred caught the crook & bashed him. Police came & no action was taken. After one year Manfred got his passport back & got the truck back to Swiss. The boss wouldn’t pay him because he reckoned Manfred caused the problem. Good old days.
tiptop495:
hey, But there was a coach with a gardner 15litre?? turbo?? in the '80’s here. Was it sold don’t know■■?
Must been powerful but■■?
cheers Eric,
I’ve mentioned elsewhere that we used a coach/bus operator to the West of Mechelen who ran both Lijn buses and a fleet of tour coaches and he was a great Gardner fan with his coaches fitted with Gardner engines, his fitter was near identical to out fitter both in looks and attitude and both were never happier than when they had a Gardner ‘to tinker’ with. With age comes memory problems and I can neither recall the name or where they were located (but I could probably drive there) If I recall correctly they were near Williebroek on the Stenroad not far from a KM post
tiptop495:
hey, But there was a coach with a gardner 15litre?? turbo?? in the '80’s here. Was it sold don’t know■■?
Must been powerful but■■?
cheers Eric,
I’ve mentioned elsewhere that we used a coach/bus operator to the West of Mechelen who ran both Lijn buses and a fleet of tour coaches and he was a great Gardner fan with his coaches fitted with Gardner engines, his fitter was near identical to out fitter both in looks and attitude and both were never happier than when they had a Gardner ‘to tinker’ with. With age comes memory problems and I can neither recall the name or where they were located (but I could probably drive there) If I recall correctly they were near Williebroek on the Stenroad not far from a KM post
hey ZZ, I don’t know but maybe you can ask it Mandator here on the site. Mostly who did buswork did coaches as well.
Here in West flanders we mostly had AEC,Leyland,and of course Fiat,and thereafter Daf or MAN engined Vanhool’s.
But I can’t remember the name but there was a big operator who ran Miesse Gardners and buses which had depot’s in the midddle and Wallon region.
This was a family firm, The owner was a very nice man and would do anything for Vicks, I remember one day we had three trucks in there in a week all with water pump problems (the spindles sheered) He was on the edge of the village and his yard was behind his house, we had to drive down past the house to get into the yard where there was usually plenty of room to turn around. I remember he had one particular smart new coach, with Gardner of course, which he was very proud of and would show the engine off to anyone who asked, or didn’t ask come to that. I think his coaches may have been light blue but don’t quote me on that. I’ll have to dig through my old diaries and see if I can find a name or number.
Indeed guys it was a family firm and I was there for years in my spare time as an enthusiast!
The bus company started way back before second World War, founded by Florent Cannaerts situated at Willebroek, a town west of Mechelen.
After hostilities the son, Jozef, joins the management and he starts two companies MEBA (running the bus route Mechelen-Boom-Antwerp) and DEBA running the route Dendermonde-Boom-Antwerp. Main bus manufacturer in service in those years was Miesse, equipped with Gardner LW and LX engines.
Next to the bus fleet was an extensive coach fleet with Miesse-Gardner and Desot bodies. They even run a service Zeebrugge - Calcutta for a British travel agency in the sixties!
On the truck front they had a partnership with Transports Trois Fontaines SA running Miesse trucks, also with Gardner engines. In the seventies he started another company Trupaco, for import of Gardner engines and bus & truck spare parts.
I remember when I was there a lot of secondhand Miesse buses were bought for their Gardner engines. Those engines were overhauled in house by an ex. Miesse worker.
All the members of his bus fleet, non Miesse, were thus equipped with Gardners (Pegaso, DAF, Neoplan, etc.)
The last Miesse tractor made , originally GM powered, was in his possesion but unfortunately lost in a hangar fire.
The failure of the British manufacturers to market their products in Europe is even more galling, when you find out that they were preferred (in the case of Gardner at least) to more locally-produced ones. All that good work, just waiting to be exchanged for a wage.
zzarbean:
This was a family firm, The owner was a very nice man and would do anything for Vicks, I remember one day we had three trucks in there in a week all with water pump problems (the spindles sheered) He was on the edge of the village and his yard was behind his house, we had to drive down past the house to get into the yard where there was usually plenty of room to turn around. I remember he had one particular smart new coach, with Gardner of course, which he was very proud of and would show the engine off to anyone who asked, or didn’t ask come to that. I think his coaches may have been light blue but don’t quote me on that. I’ll have to dig through my old diaries and see if I can find a name or number.
We’re talking mid 90’s here
Hi zzarbean
Neoplan fitted the big Gardner into some of their chassis as an option, some of the Plaxton 4000 double deckers on Neoplan running gear had them.
mandator:
Indeed guys it was a family firm and I was there for years in my spare time as an enthusiast!
The bus company started way back before second World War, founded by Florent Cannaerts situated at Willebroek, a town west of Mechelen.
After hostilities the son, Jozef, joins the management and he starts two companies MEBA (running the bus route Mechelen-Boom-Antwerp) and DEBA running the route Dendermonde-Boom-Antwerp. Main bus manufacturer in service in those years was Miesse, equipped with Gardner LW and LX engines.
Next to the bus fleet was an extensive coach fleet with Miesse-Gardner and Desot bodies. They even run a service Zeebrugge - Calcutta for a British travel agency in the sixties!
On the truck front they had a partnership with Transports Trois Fontaines SA running Miesse trucks, also with Gardner engines. In the seventies he started another company Trupaco, for import of Gardner engines and bus & truck spare parts.
I remember when I was there a lot of secondhand Miesse buses were bought for their Gardner engines. Those engines were overhauled in house by an ex. Miesse worker.
All the members of his bus fleet, non Miesse, were thus equipped with Gardners (Pegaso, DAF, Neoplan, etc.)
The last Miesse tractor made , originally GM powered, was in his possesion but unfortunately lost in a hangar fire.
If interested I can post some of the Miesse tractors
Hey Fermand, now if you say Cannaert, MEBA.
And a bit off topic.
In that time it was nice to see all those bus/choach makers. I did for a shot while trips and mecanic work around the end '70’s begin '80’s. And we had Vanhool Jonckheere but the Verleure Desot and some other with chassis from AEC, Leyland,Miesse,Alfa Romeo,Lancia,Fiat,Büssing some still from the beginning of the '50’s for worker transport.
But can you remember the bus and choach company from Landen (name■■?). But there still exists a part with coaches and maybe buses name■■? but the name GDL still exists too. It was a family which some were ex Colonists and they run Miesse for waste near Liege but did transport too. The only name I can remeber was GDL ( Garage De Limbourg) but by then it were MB’s and pulling for Hoyer. Have once see here a pic with a Miesse and some workers,and it looked like it was taken in front of the Flemalle depot■■?
In Landen was CINTRA as bus & coach operator. A lot of Miesses with Desot bodies and some interesting Mack buses.
Another operator was DONY CARS in Borgloon with Miesses.
You find more info on these bus fleets on: www.zone01.be Happy hunting
