I’m taking out a driver with me this week to show him the round before he starts work next week.
He will not be insured to drive the vehicle we will be in.
Does he need to put card in slot 2 even though there is no chance of him driving?
idrive:
I’m taking out a driver with me this week to show him the round before he starts work next week.
He will not be insured to drive the vehicle we will be in.
Does he need to put card in slot 2 even though there is no chance of him driving?
Assuming that he will not be doing any other HGV driving on that day then the answer is no.
As there is no chance of him driving the vehicle he does not need to put his driver card in slot 2, however he could put his driver card in slot 2 if for any reason he needs to record the working day.
If he’s being paid for the day’s training then I suggest a wise man would put his card in to prove he’d been there.
Since it will show POA all the way through, it will not affect his WTD hours.
If he is being carried in the vehicle as part of his duties to drive it if it becomes necessary, then he is classed as a driver and needs to insert his card.
Intent to drive or not is irrelevant.
If you injured yourself and couldn’t drive, would he drive or would they send someone else out to drive it back?
If he’s not insured then he can’t drive it.
However if it were me in the passenger seat, what is to be gained by not putting it in? I’d probably put it as it’d probably make things easier if stopped, it’s a £300 fpn for not inserting it when you have to, if the officer thinks you should it’s either pay the fine or go to court if you can’t convince them they are wrong.
Agreed, there is no reason not to put it in.
I just wondered with him not being insured so no chance of driving whether it was still legally required.
Thanks all
stevieboy308:
If he is being carried in the vehicle as part of his duties to drive it if it becomes necessary, then he is classed as a driver and needs to insert his card.Intent to drive or not is irrelevant.
If you injured yourself and couldn’t drive, would he drive or would they send someone else out to drive it back?
If he’s not insured then he can’t drive it.
However if it were me in the passenger seat, what is to be gained by not putting it in? I’d probably put it as it’d probably make things easier if stopped, it’s a £300 fpn for not inserting it when you have to, if the officer thinks you should it’s either pay the fine or go to court if you can’t convince them they are wrong.
Yes, but what is THE LAW, i think that is what the OP needs to know, what does the law say.
My opinion, i wouldnt put the card in as i am not insured to drive, so it cannot be run as a double manned shift, i would just be a drivers mate, and do a manual entry next time i drive a vehicle
shullbit:
stevieboy308:
If he is being carried in the vehicle as part of his duties to drive it if it becomes necessary, then he is classed as a driver and needs to insert his card.Intent to drive or not is irrelevant.
If you injured yourself and couldn’t drive, would he drive or would they send someone else out to drive it back?
If he’s not insured then he can’t drive it.
However if it were me in the passenger seat, what is to be gained by not putting it in? I’d probably put it as it’d probably make things easier if stopped, it’s a £300 fpn for not inserting it when you have to, if the officer thinks you should it’s either pay the fine or go to court if you can’t convince them they are wrong.
Yes, but what is THE LAW, i think that is what the OP needs to know, what does the law say.
My opinion, i wouldnt put the card in as i am not insured to drive, so it cannot be run as a double manned shift, i would just be a drivers mate, and do a manual entry next time i drive a vehicle
My 1st paragraph is the law
When he starts driving he will need to agree that he has had relevant weekly rest before commencing. There is no requirement to do that solely via information on a tachograph card.
What is the context? Has he been driving in scope elsewhere during that week? If so, he could put the card in to record the working hours. His prerogative really.
Simple answer according to the law
No he does not.
Slightly longer answer.
He needs to record his work. As he needs 28 days of records incase he gets stopped. Chances are Dvsa won’t ask and will do no more than download the card but according to the law records need to be kept
For example if you do 4 days in an office and one day on the road you need to record that. Most just do it in a diary instead of doing a ton of manual entries
And for those that say he is required by law. How about a truck with 2 passenger seats with two guys who have a tacho card that can drive?
#mindblown
I can think of even more examples of it being impossible if you want.
Is he being paid for his time sat in the passenger seat?
Noremac:
What is the context?
He will be paid for the shift.
He will be helping with loading and other duties.
He will not be driving any other vehicles commercially this week (he has never driven before, new pass, this is his first job).
He holds all cards required to drive but will 100% not be driving as uninsured.
We will also be doing a night out (he gets a hotel).
This shift is tomorrow, starts work proper next Wednesday.
Will put his card in, but it looks like not legally required?
idrive:
Noremac:
What is the context?He will be paid for the shift.
He will be helping with loading and other duties.
He will not be driving any other vehicles commercially this week (he has never driven before, new pass, this is his first job).
He holds all cards required to drive but will 100% not be driving as uninsured.
We will also be doing a night out (he gets a hotel).
This shift is tomorrow, starts work proper next Wednesday.Will put his card in, but it looks like not legally required?
I guess its good practice for him. But as has been said he does not need to do it.
adam277:
Simple answer according to the law
No he does not.Slightly longer answer.
He needs to record his work. As he needs 28 days of records incase he gets stopped. Chances are Dvsa won’t ask and will do no more than download the card but according to the law records need to be keptFor example if you do 4 days in an office and one day on the road you need to record that. Most just do it in a diary instead of doing a ton of manual entries
And for those that say he is required by law. How about a truck with 2 passenger seats with two guys who have a tacho card that can drive?
#mindblown
I can think of even more examples of it being impossible if you want.
The trouble with that is there’s some wrong info in there.
A diary is not a legal way to make a record of your other work, granted it may be accepted and probably in the majority of times, but it’s not legal, if you you want to write it you legal options are on a printout or on a wax chart.
If you meet the criteria of what is deemed a driver, again even if there’s no intention to drive, then you must insert your card, if there’s more than 1 extra driver then only 1 can obviously put their card in slot 2, so they would be the one that takes over driving if it becomes necessary,…mind blown
stevieboy308:
However if it were me in the passenger seat, what is to be gained by not putting it in? I’d probably put it as it’d probably make things easier if stopped, it’s a £300 fpn for not inserting it when you have to, if the officer thinks you should it’s either pay the fine or go to court if you can’t convince them they are wrong.
+1…
You have everything to gain by putting it in and nothing but hassle if you leave it out and get checked by an over-zealous DVSA man later on.
stevieboy308:
shullbit:
stevieboy308:
If he is being carried in the vehicle as part of his duties to drive it if it becomes necessary, then he is classed as a driver and needs to insert his card.Intent to drive or not is irrelevant.
If you injured yourself and couldn’t drive, would he drive or would they send someone else out to drive it back?
If he’s not insured then he can’t drive it.
However if it were me in the passenger seat, what is to be gained by not putting it in? I’d probably put it as it’d probably make things easier if stopped, it’s a £300 fpn for not inserting it when you have to, if the officer thinks you should it’s either pay the fine or go to court if you can’t convince them they are wrong.
Yes, but what is THE LAW, i think that is what the OP needs to know, what does the law say.
My opinion, i wouldnt put the card in as i am not insured to drive, so it cannot be run as a double manned shift, i would just be a drivers mate, and do a manual entry next time i drive a vehicleMy 1st paragraph is the law
‘‘part of his duties to drive’’ he cannot drive because he isn’t insured, so no need to put card in, i reckon…and if he did put his card in, who knows. dvsa might reckon there is some sort of attempt to manipulate the double manning rules so as to abuse daily rest etc, because the guy in the drivers seat is not legally allowed to drive that vehicle.
stevieboy308:
If you meet the criteria of what is deemed a driver, again even if there’s no intention to drive, then you must insert your card, if there’s more than 1 extra driver then only 1 can obviously put their card in slot 2, so they would be the one that takes over driving if it becomes necessary,…mind blown
Well firstly, its been stated that he will not be driving because he can not due to no insurance.
Secondly, in our scenario according to you we still have one driver who is not using the tacho to record work and apparently he can’t use a dairy so he is breaking the law. So it’s illegal to have 3 drivers in a truck but it’s fine to have two drivers and one ■■■■■■? (Assuming she doesn’t have a hgv license)
#mindreblown
Mixed Working
If drivers work within scope of the Drivers’ Hours Regulations at any time during a week they must make a record of any other work carried out in the same week. For example, a driver drives an in-scope vehicle between Monday and Thursday and will therefore have tachograph charts for each day. If on the Friday the driver does not leave the depot and works as a yard shunter, he or she must produce records for that day.The driver can provide the required record by producing:
manual records written on tachograph charts
manual records written on a printout from a digital tachograph
records made by using the manual input facility of a digital tachograph, or
a drivers’ record book for days working on the domestic drivers’ hours rules.
Now we could get into what a drivers record book is to me though it’s a diary.
Either way the plod are not going to fine you for not having your card in slot 2.
shullbit:
dvsa might reckon there is some sort of attempt to manipulate the double manning rules so as to abuse daily rest etc,
But that…
Would depend on if they’d done 21 hours in 30 on duty etc.
adam277:
Well firstly, its been stated that he will not be driving because he can not due to no insurance.
That doesn’t…
Actually stop him from driving though. Whilst against the law and stupid, he can still ‘drive’ the vehicle.
yourhavingalarf:
shullbit:
dvsa might reckon there is some sort of attempt to manipulate the double manning rules so as to abuse daily rest etc,But that…
Would depend on if they’d done 21 hours in 30 on duty etc.
If stopped halfway through a shift, how will it look?
The “passenger” is sat there, with no current record, and an empty tacho slot.
.
Letter of the law, it maybe OK, but why make it hard?
.
I can see no (legal) advantage to leaving the card out.
.
No insurance? One phone call and that can be sorted, surely his details will be there if he is coming on the next week.
Two in a motor,two cards in,IF you get stopped for what ever reason its proof that the passenger has not been driving and that one driver has not been using both cards.
Although not in this country a few years back whilst still in the EU I was doubled up with another guy,on our way to Faro.On a routine check the first thing that was asked for was the 2nd card,print outs where done and checked,same on the way back through France. I suppose it depends on who stops you and IF they know what they are doing.