Honestscott76:
“If you don’t have a truck, you aren’t self-employed” absolute bunkum!
I think you will find it’s perfectly legal in the UK to supply your ‘services’ just as agencies do, they supply the services of qualified HGV drivers. Hence why the more informed drivers have formed a limited company to act as their legal agent. The Limited company is a separate legal entity which acts as an ‘umbrella’ to stop any unwanted crap falling down on the service provider (Driver).
I understand why you ‘hate’ it but it’s perfectly legal to do so. I suppose the government wouldn’t want everybody doing it, hence the uncertainty among drivers as to its legality.
In any case if it’s so illegal, then why are the government ‘aiding and abetting’ the thousands of drivers who have set up these Limited companies? I in particular have traded in this way for 5 years and paid income tax, corporate tax, value added tax (vat) each year amounting to thousands of pounds. Are you saying the government are accepting these monies from illegally formed companies?
I went to an Operator briefing a couple of months ago with the RHA and Backhouse solicitors that touched on several subjects,including the subject of self-employed drivers. It was fairly clear what determined being a self-employed driver and a truck was it. I can’t link a conference, but I’ve found this
He continued: “In road haulage, it is rare for someone to be genuinely self-employed unless they are an owner-driver.
As to why HMRC don’t question some of the dodgier schemes, no idea. Possibly a lack of manpower?
Give it time they have been making noises about it for a while and have gone after the umbrella scheme.
My main gripe is I can see how a genuine freelance driver who does a few days or a couple of weeks at different firms is self employed but someone who works at the same firm all the time is an employee.
Add to that to many who go ltd think a pound an hour over the PAYE rate is a good deal as they can put in claims for phone bills and other stuff and take some wage As a dividend
To save tax.
The only one it benefits is the opearator as it costs around a third on top of the drivers wage to cover the employers obligations for a PAYE driver to cover holiday pay employers no etc
cav551:
The same collective action will benefit hauliers if only they would wake up. If the hauliers took more care to avoid unproductive mileage, half empty vehicle movements, charged demurrage automatically at a punitive rate, refused to accept goods unless packaged in a manner suitable for securing in the vehicle, but above all only carried traffic which provided a profit without any reliance upon backloading and spent a little less time and money designing a new livery for the fleet, then their profitability would improve. But all the time they attempt to do their competitors out of business by adopting ludicrous schemes such as investing in, for example double deck trailers, with the potential to carry up to 52 pallets and then GIVE their customer the financial benefit of the increased productivity by charging the same rate as they had for 26 pallets or scant extra, then nothing will change. Instead they seek to maintain the status quo by operating local wage cartels.
Bring on it all grinding to a halt.
We no longer load back out of Euroland. I cannot compete with the Poles etc, I’d run at a loss, it’s better to come back empty and re-load at a decent rate. I agree it’s daft, but you can’t compete with another haulier whose costs are so much cheaper.
I gave up competing years ago. There’s companies that started around the same time as me, ten times as big, but I frankly am not very good at the business side of cost cutting. I know what a decent rate is and if someone won’t pay, then I walk away.
PS I’m not worried about the dog getting on the chair, it’s the fact that she ate the arm of it before xmas .
Give this co. a look Albion if looking for backloads back to the UK. The rates arent always the best but they’ll pay your fuel and some.
I dont use them personally as im Malaga to Calais/Reims return 99% of the time but i know others who do and they seem to do ok out of it. They’ll also arrange and book relative ferries at subsidised rates…
Give this co. a look Albion if looking for backloads back to the UK. The rates arent always the best but they’ll pay your fuel and some.
I dont use them personally as im Malaga to Calais/Reims return 99% of the time but i know others who do and they seem to do ok out of it. They’ll also arrange and book relative ferries at subsidised rates…
Thanks for the thought Andrew, but Tbh I get paid round trip and we are very specialised.
That and I think my drivers would keep over in shock if they had to do general haulage
Give this co. a look Albion if looking for backloads back to the UK. The rates arent always the best but they’ll pay your fuel and some.
I dont use them personally as im Malaga to Calais/Reims return 99% of the time but i know others who do and they seem to do ok out of it. They’ll also arrange and book relative ferries at subsidised rates…
Thanks for the thought Andrew, but Tbh I get paid round trip and we are very specialised.
That and I think my drivers would keep over in shock if they had to do general haulage
kr79:
Give it time they have been making noises about it for a while and have gone after the umbrella scheme.
My main gripe is I can see how a genuine freelance driver who does a few days or a couple of weeks at different firms is self employed but someone who works at the same firm all the time is an employee.
Add to that to many who go ltd think a pound an hour over the PAYE rate is a good deal as they can put in claims for phone bills and other stuff and take some wage As a dividend
To save tax.
The only one it benefits is the opearator as it costs around a third on top of the drivers wage to cover the employers obligations for a PAYE driver to cover holiday pay employers no etc
Our gripes are mutual! By the time you strip pension liabilities, holiday pay and sick pay out, that tax dodging dividend has a lot to make up.
I’m not against self employed per se, but I am against it being abused as it now undoubtedly is. And I wouldn’t like to see people being screwed by HMRC if they ever do chase those that don’t fit the parameters, after its been encouraged by those who won’t be picking up the bill.
Oh yeah get the government involved, that’ll sort things out.
British Rail
British Telecom
British Steel
British Road Services
British Leyland
British Gas
British Coal
Anybody see a pattern when the government get involved in free market business…
newmercman:
Oh yeah get the government involved, that’ll sort things out.
British Rail
British Telecom
British Steel
British Road Services
British Leyland
British Gas
British Coal
Anybody see a pattern when the government get involved in free market business…
You don’t want the government involved. Just giving the industry tax incentives for those who are playing the right game by their workforce. And an independent czar, not an mp past or present, sitting in judgment on minimum tariffs and duties etc
newmercman:
Oh yeah get the government involved, that’ll sort things out.
British Rail
British Telecom
British Steel
British Road Services
British Leyland
British Gas
British Coal
Anybody see a pattern when the government get involved in free market business…
You don’t want the government involved. Just giving the industry tax incentives for those who are playing the right game by their workforce. And an independent czar, not an mp past or present, sitting in judgment on minimum tariffs and duties etc
Government is already involved. It came up with the idea of tax credits. Ordinary hard working taxpayers subsidising the profits of skinflint companies by paying a top up to starvation wages in order to massage employment figures, but primarily to provide those companies with a source of cheap labour. And we all fell for it and think it’s a good idea. The shareholders are splitting their sides.
Absolutely, which is why we don’t want any government interference whatsoever, as soon as they poke their snouts in the trough, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
newmercman:
Anybody see a pattern when the government get involved in free market business…
You don’t want the government involved. Just giving the industry tax incentives for those who are playing the right game by their workforce. And an independent czar, not an mp past or present, sitting in judgment on minimum tariffs and duties etc
Ironically we never did have proper government control over trade and industry policy.What we actually had was the half way measure and worst of all worlds situation of public money being used to prop up essential strategic industries.Which were then allowed to at best be held back by,or at worse be taken out by,continuing exposure,to the same race to the bottom free markets,that people are rightly complaining about in this case.
newmercman:
Anybody see a pattern when the government get involved in free market business…
You don’t want the government involved. Just giving the industry tax incentives for those who are playing the right game by their workforce. And an independent czar, not an mp past or present, sitting in judgment on minimum tariffs and duties etc
Ironically we never did have proper government control over trade and industry policy.What we actually had was the half way measure and worst of all worlds situation of public money being used to prop up essential strategic industries.Which were then allowed to at best be held back by,or at worse be taken out by,continuing exposure,to the same race to the bottom free markets,that people are rightly complaining about in this case.
Gotta run for a boat, so can’t do a long post. (That’s a relief for you all).
Carryfast is making some valid points here about the race to the bottom.
Newmercman talks about
British Rail- since privatisation it’s getting similar subsidies and getting lots of criticism of services whilst giving money to shareholders.
British Leyland- not a success but an attempt to rescue failing private motor manufacturers maybe? Ford UK haven’t done too well recently I’d say.
British Telecom- a privste success maybe? Born of a technically successful nationalised company?
British Coal- books have been anf will continue to be written about this. Politics as much or more than economics maybe.
British Road Services- some drivers on this thread have been suggesting mimimum rates for jobs. . .so maybe some would like a return of BRS?
Against Government? Let’s see what happens when a business man holds the reins of power? Maybe if a major power were to elect an anti establishment President we’d see?
Volvo Jay an independent czar? Sounds like a good idea. Except any disagreeing will point to lack of accountability as some (many on this forum) will point to the unpopularity of the Eu Commissioners.
My solution?
For any intractable problem there always exists a chesp easy solution. . . That’s always wrong. I’ve got loads of them to offer.
newmercman:
Oh yeah get the government involved, that’ll sort things out.
British Rail
British Telecom
British Steel
British Road Services
British Leyland
British Gas
British Coal
Anybody see a pattern when the government get involved in free market business…
Yes, Half of them ceased to exist due to strikes etc. and the rest, BT, British Gas and the railways rip us off.
I find myself largely in agreement with Juddian. It’s not just the money but a whole workplace environment/experience (yeah yeah using management speak). I have also come to the opinion that it isn’t just drivers who are hacked off with their working lives many first line transport managers are and voting with their feet. I do think that this is largely down to high level management pilling pressure on their subordinates who in turn pass that pressure, with a bit of their own added, down the line until it reaches the bottom of the corporate structure. Maybe one reason why smaller organisations seem to have fewer challenges with recruitment and retention.
Of course I don’t believe any of the people who this might be seen as the target audience for the survey results. will take any notice of those of us at the bottom of the line but here is another person whose views I find consistent with those I’ve just expressed all be it with more eloquence.
People have changing expectations, abilities at different times in their working lives. A younger person will likely find the physical part of work easier, and less damaging, than older worn out people.
If people are told that the company staff are the greatest asset and are then treated poorly why would despondency be a surprising outcome?
If companies decide that they want to split their distribution away from the core business and use contractor A to run the warehouse and contractor B to run the transport don’t be surprised when the tensions build as each contractor seeks to protect its own position even to the detriment of the client.
If contractors use staff from one contract to fill gaps in hard to fill UNATTRACTIVE (lower standards of equipment and safety) contracts don’t be surprised if staff walk away from both.
All of this is largely academic as until shops are empty, loads don’t move for lack of steering wheel attendant there can not be a driver shortage at all.
newmercman:
Oh yeah get the government involved, that’ll sort things out.
British Rail
British Telecom
British Steel
British Road Services
British Leyland
British Gas
British Coal
Anybody see a pattern when the government get involved in free market business…
Yes, Half of them ceased to exist due to strikes etc. and the rest, BT, British Gas and the railways rip us off.
Or to look at it another way.Strikes and cease to exist because of wage cuts in real terms and unviability caused by exposure to cheap foreign competition.
Or rip off prices due to the excessive profits taken by the banker classes after privatisation.
As opposed to a planned managed economy in which nationalisation means what it says.IE democratically elected government provision and control of investment,employment,wages,prices and profit margins.The idea of throwing the fortunes of the country and its people to the vagaries and failings of global free markets,not looking good in that regard.
Some people on the board might like it, like Royal mail, you can have Royal Lorry Service
Hopefully events in the US and even moreso possibly France,depending on which way their vote goes.Might prove that there is a big difference between running industry and an economy in the ‘national’ interest,as opposed to Communism.
Without the investment and influence of Willy Betz the Bulgarian state transport of the 70s would have consisted of a few old F88s and a handful of other rubbish.The new trucks and trailers may have been fine but the quality of the drivers was abysmal,especially compared to the other communist countries and the quality and education of their drivers,such as Pekaes,Hungarocamion and CSAD.
Trucky Mc truckface:
The problem is no one wants to be a Truck Driver its simple. Gone are the old days of camaraderie etc. Its every man for himself now days. I have 5 vacancies for UK Tramping paying £31.5k Pa + Nights out and overtime Based in Suffolk and Immingham and the applications are almost at Zero. I have just taken one lad on x Army who has 2 years experience and he is Brilliant. That’s the other stumbling block also. 2 years experience. My insurers will not even offer the option of a increased Excess to take younger lads with little or no experience on either. Its a crazy world in the trucking Business at the moment.
Those ex-army guys are model employees. Trained with obedience and respect. Yes sir!
Strange you have 5 vacancies and paying “£31.5k pa + nights out” tho. I suspect you require the whole card filled and more?
Companies can’t keep ‘good drivers’ because their perception of such a driver differs so much.
I really hope you are not implying what i read your comment as. The answer is no. max hours possible yes. But bent running no. 2 infringements in a month without good reason dont slam the door on your way out. Oh and green light 0 on both counts also. not bad for 85 trucks eh.
. 
