Driver jailed

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

ROG:
I’ll bet that most on here, if they want to do something in the cab that takes away their driving concentration, look well ahead and assess the current & possible situations first to see if they have enough space and time in which to do it.

ROG:
Careful what you infer please :slight_smile:

biggusdickusgb:
i’ll infer thats what i did all through my career

Exactly :exclamation: - just as a true professional should :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Not like the so-called professional who ploughed into that car - safety was not first and foremost on his mind at the time…

62

Rog in 27 years of driving I openly admit that I may have forgotten more than I care to remember, however, I have learned a ■■■■ site more, but most importantly, I have the balls to admit publicly that I’m not perfect, unlike some folk.

I spent 7 years employed with TDG Logistics, on the first day the then TDG Beckett and Pollister took over Woodrich Transport my employer, we were told that each year we would have to complete a full days training or we couldn’t drive a TDG Truck :open_mouth:

How shocking was that? a new employer insisting, nope, demanding we took a full day out once a year for training, I along with many other drivers were disgusted at their demands.

And yet, now, I am the first to admit that TDG’s 6 star training program is one of the best, and should be compulsory with every employer, because I along with other drivers, learned a lot of things we wouldn’t normally have considered.

In 27 years of Truck Driving one of the most important things I have learned is that accidents do happen despite the fact they can in most cases be avoided, however, living in the real world you tend to realise that no matter what text books say, or what advance driving certificates you hold, every day can be different and the instruction books get thrown out of the window.

Week after week I read your posts and you persist to quote the rule books, sorry Rog, the real world does not operate like that, and if you cannot look at things at the correct level of perspectiveness, then your wasting your time looking to give tuition in my opinion.

By all means quote the correct procedures, but at least take the time to realise that the majority of truck drivers out on our roads today have not sat an advanced driving course, nor have they sat some training program to give them added knowledge, pehaps this is why the Drivers CPC is being introduced?

I know I probably get on a few Tnet members ■■■■ by always looking at things from my perspective, but hey, freedom of speech and all that crap, If my views differ from that of others then so be it. I prefer to sit and look at things from how I would of done it, or how it would of affected me, time and time again users of this site condemn someone for breaking the law in some way or form, without taking the time to think about “What they would have done” in that situation.

Rog:
Not like the so-called professional who ploughed into that car - safety was not first and foremost on his mind at the time…

Its good to see that your opinion simply gives the LGV Driver on our roads a Professional status until he is involved in an accident, so thats about 65% of LGV drivers on our roads now who are not professionals as they have failed your criteria by hitting a wall, car, bumped a kerb etc etc etc Accidents after all, come in various disguises :unamused:

Oh and by the way, how do you know what he was doing in his cab seconds before the accident? you obviously seem to know something that we dont.

63

Davey Driver:

bubsy06:
Yes but these things take a fraction of a second to do.
On the news they showed footage of a police car travelling as the lorry did. There were matrix signs warning of queues and the road was straight. He was not taking any notice for alot longer than it takes to do any of those things.

Sorry bubsy but your missing the point, it only takes a couple of seconds of lost concentration for wiping out a family in a car, you cannot twist and alter the evidence to suit.

It was the last 6 or 7 seconds that caused the accident, after they elapsed he had no chance of stopping !!!

I’ve got to agree with you there. It does look like this site has the largest proportion of brilliantly talented drivers who follow the textbook every waking moment and have never made a mistake in their lives. I wish I was as good as that, but unfortunately I’m only human…

64

Rog wrote:
Not like the so-called professional who ploughed into that car - safety was not first and foremost on his mind at the time…

Then perhaps he deliberately ran into the car :question:

65

Davey Driver:

Rog:
Not like the so-called professional who ploughed into that car - safety was not first and foremost on his mind at the time…

Its good to see that your opinion simply gives the LGV Driver on our roads a Professional status until he is involved in an accident, so thats about 65% of LGV drivers on our roads now who are not professionals as they have failed your criteria by hitting a wall, car, bumped a kerb etc etc etc Accidents after all, come in various disguises :unamused:

Perhaps we should have a new topic on here every week “Who’s now an ‘unprofessional’ lgv driver w/e” then see who’s a member of the IHTY brigade :exclamation: :exclamation: :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :open_mouth: :confused:

66

pecjam23:

Davey Driver:

Rog:
Not like the so-called professional who ploughed into that car - safety was not first and foremost on his mind at the time…

Its good to see that your opinion simply gives the LGV Driver on our roads a Professional status until he is involved in an accident, so thats about 65% of LGV drivers on our roads now who are not professionals as they have failed your criteria by hitting a wall, car, bumped a kerb etc etc etc Accidents after all, come in various disguises :unamused:

Perhaps we should have a new topic on here every week “Who’s now an ‘unprofessional’ lgv driver w/e” then see who’s a member of the IHTY brigade :exclamation: :exclamation: :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :open_mouth: :confused:

i need to know what IHTY is before i commit to it :blush:

67

biggusdickusgb:
i need to know what IHTY is before i commit to it :blush:

PMSL @ Biggus but I think he means

I’m Holy er than You or is it Hollier?

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

68

Rog wrote:
Not like the so-called professional who ploughed into that car - safety was not first and foremost on his mind at the time…

OLT:
Then perhaps he deliberately ran into the car :question:

Again, did I say that :question: :exclamation: :unamused:

bubsy06:
He would of seen the car stopped long before and been able to stop if he was concentrating on the road. That is what I am saying.

ROG:
…and as I was saying, he made the decision not to do just that by putting his concentration elsewhere…

He did not deliberately intend to cause the crash but could have easily avoided it if he had been driving safely and considered all the possibilities what could happen if he decided to put his concentration elsewhere.

Fact - There is no such thing as a perfect driver
Fact - Where a driver decides to put their concentration and when is down to that driver.
Fact - The way a driver thinks and what they consider to be their piorities will decide the above.

Only now do we come into the contentious bit - how should a driver be thinking :question:

Another way of loking at this -
As professionals, truckers tend to assume that other drivers, especially non-professionals, are likely to do something very numptyish and plan for such - so why do they do that? - easy really, truckers are in charge of one of the most potentially devastating killing machines on our roads so they have to be alert at all times to the POSSIBLE dangers out there - that is what makes them a PROFESSIONAL and in the majority of cases they are respected for that professionalism (even if most won’t admit to it!!).

Then along comes a trucker, one out of thousands, who decides, for whatever reason, that his priorities are going to be different at a particular point in time and chooses the wrong point in time to do that. He made a fateful error in his judgement which could have been avoided if his priorities had been different.
If he never makes that error again then he has learnt by the experience of it but what a way to learn that experience :exclamation: :exclamation:
If he had been thinking a different way could that error have been avoided? - YES.

69

ROG:
He did not deliberately intend to cause the crash but could have easily avoided it if he had been driving safely and considered all the possibilities what could happen if he decided to put his concentration elsewhere.

Rog you simply are not grasping the point are you?

I have yet to meet a driver who can concentrate 100% on the road ahead for 100% of the time, are you stating that from getting behind the wheen of your car or a truck your mind is going constantly as follows for example:

Okay check mirrors,
Signal, Handbrake off, into second, nothing ahead, ooops pedestrian on the path 500 yards away, watch what he’s doing, into 3rd check mirror, into 4th ooops check speed, car coming towards me, whats he going to do, okay he’s passed me, junction ahead, check mirrors…

With me its a case of start up, check mirrors etc and away I go, I dont concentrate on what others are doing I watch them to make sure they dont affect my space, but hey, I can also be thinking about what I’m going to be doing tomorrow etc.

ROG:
Another way of loking at this -
As professionals, truckers tend to assume that other drivers, especially non-professionals, are likely to do something very numptyish and plan for such - so why do they do that? -

Because they expect it some of the time, but not ALL of the time, the portugese driver in this case was distracted at an unfortunate time, something we have all encountered at one point or another, and anyone saying otherwise is not living in the real world.

ROG:
easy really, truckers are in charge of one of the most potentially devastating killing machines on our roads so they have to be alert at all times to the POSSIBLE dangers out there - that is what makes them a PROFESSIONAL and in the majority of cases they are respected for that professionalism (even if most won’t admit to it!!).

Yes and they are also human, not robotic, they are open to making mistakes, more importantly an accident / disaster is not caused by 1 fault, it is a combination of errors that come together at once. Hmmm where did I get that from :laughing:

Standing Traffic
A Car pulling out in front of a Truck
A car hitting the back of a stationary truck
A truck driver distracted at a critical time
An accident results

ROG:
Then along comes a trucker, one out of thousands, who decides, for whatever reason, that his priorities are going to be different at a particular point in time and chooses the wrong point in time to do that. He made a fateful error in his judgement which could have been avoided if his priorities had been different.
If he never makes that error again then he has learnt by the experience of it but what a way to learn that experience :exclamation: :exclamation:
If he had been thinking a different way could that error have been avoided? - YES.

I would bet a million quid that driver did not know what was going to happen 60 seconds earlier, he was unfortunate in being in the wrong place at the wrong time, in 20 odd years of driving trucks he had only picked up 2 points for using a mobile phone, no tacho infringements, no speeding tickets yet you view him as not being a professional because some woman pulled out in front of him when he was not expecting it.

Did he pick the wrong time to distrct himself? Of course he did, but isn’t hindsight a bloody wonderful thing

70

ROG:

Rog wrote:
Not like the so-called professional who ploughed into that car - safety was not first and foremost on his mind at the time…

OLT:
Then perhaps he deliberately ran into the car :question:

Again, did I say that :question: :exclamation: :unamused:

bubsy06:
He would of seen the car stopped long before and been able to stop if he was concentrating on the road. That is what I am saying.

ROG:
…and as I was saying, he made the decision not to do just that by putting his concentration elsewhere…

He did not deliberately intend to cause the crash but could have easily avoided it if he had been driving safely and considered all the possibilities what could happen if he decided to put his concentration elsewhere.

Fact - There is no such thing as a perfect driver
Fact - Where a driver decides to put their concentration and when is down to that driver.
Fact - The way a driver thinks and what they consider to be their piorities will decide the above.

Only now do we come into the contentious bit - how should a driver be thinking :question:

Another way of loking at this -
As professionals, truckers tend to assume that other drivers, especially non-professionals, are likely to do something very numptyish and plan for such - so why do they do that? - easy really, truckers are in charge of one of the most potentially devastating killing machines on our roads so they have to be alert at all times to the POSSIBLE dangers out there - that is what makes them a PROFESSIONAL and in the majority of cases they are respected for that professionalism (even if most won’t admit to it!!).

Then along comes a trucker, one out of thousands, who decides, for whatever reason, that his priorities are going to be different at a particular point in time and chooses the wrong point in time to do that. He made a fateful error in his judgement which could have been avoided if his priorities had been different.
If he never makes that error again then he has learnt by the experience of it but what a way to learn that experience :exclamation: :exclamation:
If he had been thinking a different way could that error have been avoided? - YES.

For someone who spends most of his time in the passenger seat, you have a lot to say about the ones who sit in the drivers seat day after day.

That Proffesional is being bandied about again, it’s a word that is used a lot to condem drivers for their mistakes or slight errors.
Nobody knows exactly what happened in that cab that day we are all just assuming what happened.

Rog, those who can, do, those who can’t, teach

You are very condesending to drivers, guys who are out there doing it. Come down from your moral high ground, get some real driving experience and then tell drivers they are unproffessional.

71

Davey Driver:
Rog you simply are not grasping the point are you?

I have yet to meet a driver who can concentrate 100% on the road ahead for 100% of the time, are you stating that from getting behind the wheen of your car or a truck your mind is going constantly as follows for example:

Okay check mirrors,
Signal, Handbrake off, into second, nothing ahead, ooops pedestrian on the path 500 yards away, watch what he’s doing, into 3rd check mirror, into 4th ooops check speed, car coming towards me, whats he going to do, okay he’s passed me, junction ahead, check mirrors…

YES - that and more - road surfaces, weather conditions, eyes on full beam into the distance, eyes on full beam into the mirrors, eyes on dipped for what is happening in the immediate foreground, glancing at speedo, taking the info from every road sign and retaining what is pertinent, constant scanning for hazards and dismissing those that are not relevant so as not to overload the brain… I thinks that’s enough for now :smiley:

On top of all that, I can do a full commentary as well - WOW :exclamation: - woopeedooo :wink:

Car or truck - I do the same - WHY■■? - Because driving is the most dangerous activity that most of us do

Back on topic - a question -
Was the incident involving the truck and the car avoidable :question: - if yes, why :question:

72

YES - that and more - road surfaces, weather conditions, eyes on full beam into the distance, eyes on full beam into the mirrors, eyes on dipped for what is happening in the immediate foreground, glancing at speedo, taking the info from every road sign and retaining what is pertinent, constant scanning for hazards and dismissing those that are not relevant so as not to overload the brain… I thinks that’s enough for now

On top of all that, I can do a full commentary as well - WOW - woopeedooo

You could be a super hero Rog, most drivers I know do all that already, they just don’t go on about it like you do.

Try doing that for 9 hours, with your comentry if you like. IAM is a load of crap, a self promoting self regulating body of mostly men who wear driving gloves and wear pork pie hats.

In the real world drivers just get on with it, if advanced driving was so good it would be compulsary.

How many of your past students had accidents? have any been fatal, there is a good chance that at least one has. You taught them are they unproffessional.

73

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
… most drivers I know do all that already…

GREAT

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Try doing that for 9 hours, with your comentry if you like.

No PROB

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
IAM is a load of crap, a self promoting self regulating body of mostly men who wear driving gloves and wear pork pie hats.

As you seem to know very little about advanced driving may I suggest that you do some research before commenting on it :bulb: - Perhaps a demo drive given by a one of the local advanced drivers in your area may enlighten you - they will do it for FREE :smiley:

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
In the real world drivers just get on with it, if advanced driving was so good it would be compulsary.

Correct - it should be BUT the government decided it would be political suicide to enforce it.

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
How many of your past students had accidents? have any been fatal, there is a good chance that at least one has. You taught them are they unproffessional.

Are you referring to LGV trainees or the advanced :question:

74

Please can we ensure that this thread does not go down the road of personal attacks on other members, Also the fact the driver was Portuguese is not relevant to the accident, He didnt have the accident because of his nationality, he had it because he made a mistake/error of judgement.

I do think that anyone who expects a driver to be 100% alert and conscious of every possible turn of events and evaluating different scenerios every second they are behind the wheel is trying to put forward a driving Utopia. The theory is good and correct, but It will never happen in real life on the road. Drivers are human beings not robots. We all make mistakes, errors of judgement while out on the road, I know I have made many, probably many every single day I have driven.

75

ROG:

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
… most drivers I know do all that already…

GREAT

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Try doing that for 9 hours, with your comentry if you like.

No PROB

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
IAM is a load of crap, a self promoting self regulating body of mostly men who wear driving gloves and wear pork pie hats.

As you seem to know very little about advanced driving may I suggest that you do some research before commenting on it :bulb: - Perhaps a demo drive given by a one of the local advanced drivers in your area may enlighten you - they will do it for FREE :smiley:

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
In the real world drivers just get on with it, if advanced driving was so good it would be compulsary.

Correct - it should be BUT the government decided it would be political suicide to enforce it.

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
How many of your past students had accidents? have any been fatal, there is a good chance that at least one has. You taught them are they unproffessional.

Are you referring to LGV trainees or the advanced :question:

As you say yourself you can’t do the job with your bad back, I meant loading unloading and all other related tasks With a fully frieghted artic. Not a an Iveco cargo with an empty trailer.

I know enough about advanced driving as my uncle is AIM, ADI trained.

But is it not the aim of our altruistic government to keep us all safe and sound

Either but mostly LGV has this is a truck site

Rog, why are you so judgemental about drivers, we don’t go into the classroom to learn, we learn on the job.
The pressure we are under is imense, it comes from all sides. For you to sit there and call all of us unproffessional is down right rude.
We all have lapses in concentration, even you if your ego would allow you to admit it.
I am not defending the driver, he got what the courts think he deserved. But nobody deliberatly drives in such a way as to cause death or injury, unfortunately that day circumstances, maybe not beyond his control, caused a fatal accident. It could have happened to you, me or anyone of us.

But has the Frank said, That’s life. sometimes it stinks.

Don’t worry Rikki, I’m being serious about this one

76

Rikki-UK:
Please can we ensure that this thread does not go down the road of personal attacks on other members,…

Sorry if I was getting too close to that - it was not my intention :blush: :blush: :blush:

Rikki-UK:
I do think that anyone who expects a driver to be 100% alert and conscious of every possible turn of events and evaluating different scenerios every second they are behind the wheel is trying to put forward a driving Utopia. The theory is good and correct, but It will never happen in real life on the road. Drivers are human beings not robots. We all make mistakes, errors of judgement while out on the road, I know I have made many, probably many every single day I have driven.

Totally agree - no such thing as a perfect driver in any class of vehicle but we can make the best effort possible to make sure those minor errors, and we all make them, do not turn into major ones.

77

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
The pressure we are under is imense, it comes from all sides. For you to sit there and call all of us unproffessional is down right rude.

I don’t think I ever said that :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

ROG:
As professionals, truckers tend to assume that other drivers, especially non-professionals, are likely to do something very numptyish and plan for such - so why do they do that? - easy really, truckers are in charge of one of the most potentially devastating killing machines on our roads so they have to be alert at all times to the POSSIBLE dangers out there - that is what makes them a PROFESSIONAL and in the majority of cases they are respected for that professionalism (even if most won’t admit to it!!).

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

78

ROG:

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
The pressure we are under is imense, it comes from all sides. For you to sit there and call all of us unproffessional is down right rude.

I don’t think I ever said that :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

ROG:
As professionals, truckers tend to assume that other drivers, especially non-professionals, are likely to do something very numptyish and plan for such - so why do they do that? - easy really, truckers are in charge of one of the most potentially devastating killing machines on our roads so they have to be alert at all times to the POSSIBLE dangers out there - that is what makes them a PROFESSIONAL and in the majority of cases they are respected for that professionalism (even if most won’t admit to it!!).

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

You may not have said that but you did say

Rog wrote:
Not like the so-called professional who ploughed into that car - safety was not first and foremost on his mind at the time…

And then you make out because we are not AIM trained we are not as good as you, we don’t see as much of the road as you.

Please take off your trainers hat and see it from a real jobbing drivers point. The guy for whatevert reason lost concentration for however long. He collided with another vehicle and killed an unfortunate familly. It could have happened to anyone of us and it still could, every jobbing driver is always aware of what could happen and the conseqences that come with it. This and all RTA’s involving LGV’s and PCV’s affect drivers.

79

Well I’ve reached my conclusion as its going around in circles now

A Trucker through his own stupidity allowed himself to be distracted, sadly at the time of distraction another motorist who also obviously allowed themselves to be distracted, pulled out into the path of a truck of a distracted driver. The result was the motorist hit the back of a stationary truck and was then shunted by a distracted driver.

Now one thing that nobody seems to have picked up on, is this,

Why did the motorist NOT see the truck stationary that they were pulling out into? Hhhmmmm queue jumping perhaps?
Why did the motorist hit the rear of a stationary truck?

In my opinion both were at fault yet the trucker is made the scapegoat, just because a laptop was open doesn’t mean it was being used, jeezus, the amount of time I have a TV on in the background of my office doesn’t mean I’m sitting watching it.

In the world of Rog everything must be great, no accidents, no speeding, no thinking about anything other than driving, do I want to become a citizen of Rog Land? Not bloody likely, I’d rather be a human being happy to take responsibility for my actions, if this involves an accident then so be it, it’s me that lives with the consequences, but I certainly dont want to preach to others about the moral rights and wrongs of how to do their jobs, I am happy however, to listen to their reasons even if they live in La la land.

I’ve done the commentary bit Rog, but I’ve also done the thinking whilst driving, of whats the best route into a drop, where will I park tonight etc etc etc

Heaven forbid, I’ve even took my eyes off the road to read a map, but hey, I was lucky :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

I think I’ll leave this thread for the time being, I’ve aired my views :wink:

80

Yep soft sentance .
I really dont think that locking someone up for 10 20 30 odd years would change anything this guy will have to live with the fact he by neglect killed or was party in killing 6 people.
Most of you here are calling for a really long time behind bars his crime was killing 6 by neglect, does anyone know if he was done on tacho offences /poor maintance of the truck speeding etc…
Ok little Jimmy Twister gose nicks a car, whats he get slapped wrist and a ban, whoopie he does it again and again why cause he aint gonna go to jail and he aint gonna bother getting a licence cause he’s banned… so why would Jimmy waste money taking a driving test just so he can have his bann slapped on it ■■?
This Driver will as I have said live this the rest of his life, He should also recive a Life BAN on driving any vehicle in all member states of the EU.
How many lorries do you still see with stuff in the windows ■■
How many of YOU have stuff still in the windows ■■?
In short We ALL ■■■■ UP at some point some bigger than others, hanging someone out in jail for a long time aint always the answer.