Driver cpc - what do you want?

With respect Pete, you as a trainer have a vested interest in making it work, as do JAUPT and everone else involved receiving remuneration from DCPC.

We haven’t addressed ‘what you want’?

It is not for the drivers to say what they want. It is for the people who dreamt up the idea of ongoing training to indicate what they had in mind when they implemented the requirement. What we have seen in this ongoing post is suggestions as to what may be good. First aid would be good, but so it would be good for every occupation.
Are shopworkers, for an example, going to be compelled to undertake occupational training?

I would like to educate myself further in vehicle mechanics, the law, and any number of other things, but that is not the point.

The point is, what did the people who came up with the idea that they would compel drivers to undertake occupational traning, see was wrong with the industry that motivated them to instigate the requirement?

a home study course. :wink:

what they saw was another way to take drivers money as it isnt quite generating enough revenue with medicals, digi card and spot check fines :open_mouth:

Info on digi tacho manual inputs/time changes with practical demonstrations, might have to be video but exlained slowly not just show the class whilst the trainer does some paperwork or chats up the bird next door or nips for a ■■■.
Stonebridge tacho’s possibly exempted from this, i doubt the designer knows how to operate them properly let alone hairy arsed truckers, that could take all day and we’d be none the wiser :open_mouth:

Drivers hours updates clearly explained, such as the 15 minute break before 6 hours to extend the WTD requirement, many drivers still don’t know or understand it, not sure i have it off pat.

Practical demonstrations of paying back time, the way many of the requirements are written isn’t clear enough for many, including me.

Other legal requirements, such as vehicle inspection responsibilities and drivers other responsibilites, eg requirements to keep print outs.

Run through proper coupling/uncoupling procedures, not necessarily the fashion of the day but real sensible you’ve got the bugger and it ain’t coming off way, ■■■■ eggs?, maybe but some recent threads and my own eyes and ears tell me a sizeable minority don’t have a clue and care less.

Load restraint as it pertains to the drivers responsibility, outlining the drivers legal standing in refusal to run with insecure/top heavy loads or if driver not allowed to view the load…seems obvious to old hands but newer drivers won’t have the confidence to say no and they are arguably the ones more likely to roll or lose it.

Some mechanical training, what different braking systems do and which wheels they work on, how various retarders work (even those which make a noise and don’t ■■■■■■ worth spit).

Include some basic info of how to check oils and fluids and top them up on various common vehicles, many of which now don’t have dipsticks (cue the usual joke) and in one case at least where the modern cab has to be tilted to add oil, which amazed me.

Quick run through of how to change headlight and front side/indicator bulbs on common trucks, not all companies have dumbed down to supermarket chauffer level yet, drivers in many companies still expected to perform simple stuff like bulb changes…sods law dictates no one who knows is about when it happens.

Some of the above would get more driver input and useful practical knowledge from regulars drivers of each make.
ie how many know new drivers would know about the crawl speed function both forward and reverse on the automatic boxes found on Daf/MAN/Fiat sorry Iveco.

Driver input in a controlled discussion is a vital tool, time to learn from each other under guidance of the trainer come referee, long term drivers do pick up a lot of good and bad knowledge, seems a shame for that knowledge not to get passed…it would have done at one time in general haulage yards when a new driver was took under an older drivers wing amd taught the ropes, such as happened to me, that doesn’t happen in quite the same way any more, more’s the pity.

Loads more but a few of my thoughts.

limeyphil:
a home study course. :wink:

Good idea … I wouldn’t need this training room, office, desks, chairs, heating and lighting, insurances etc

And no surprise JAUPT inspections :smiley:

Juddian:
Info on digi tacho manual inputs/time changes with practical demonstrations, might have to be video but exlained slowly not just show the class whilst the trainer does some paperwork or chats up the bird next door or nips for a ■■■.

Couldn’t agree more

Juddian:
Stonebridge tacho’s possibly exempted from this, i doubt the designer knows how to operate them properly let alone hairy arsed truckers, that could take all day and we’d be none the wiser :open_mouth:

Stonridge isn’t bad once you get into it, just long winded but plenty of drivers seem to get on with them. I think there may be some features the designers aren’t sure about though. But this is covered in my training

Juddian:
Drivers hours updates clearly explained, such as the 15 minute break before 6 hours to extend the WTD requirement, many drivers still don’t know or understand it, not sure i have it off pat.

Practical demonstrations of paying back time, the way many of the requirements are written isn’t clear enough for many, including me.

Should all be covered already - it is in my courses :wink:

Juddian:
Other legal requirements, such as vehicle inspection responsibilities and drivers other responsibilites, eg requirements to keep print outs.

Should be covered in any decent course

Juddian:
Run through proper coupling/uncoupling procedures, not necessarily the fashion of the day but real sensible you’ve got the bugger and it ain’t coming off way, ■■■■ eggs?, maybe but some recent threads and my own eyes and ears tell me a sizeable minority don’t have a clue and care less.

Yes I like this one but … the problem is that this is specific to CE drivers and most courses are general covering anything over 3.5t upwards. A bunch of rigid drivers sat in with artic drivers wouldn’t be chuffed. And … what about other kinds of trailers? Those with CE Category restriction 102 - wagon and drag?

I don’t currently have coupling & uncoupling covered as DCPC. I tried to include it in my walk round/defect type course but JAUPT said no because it is too specific and I would need to ensure trainees were all CE. I do offer the training though as an extra

Juddian:
Load restraint as it pertains to the drivers responsibility, outlining the drivers legal standing in refusal to run with insecure/top heavy loads or if driver not allowed to view the load…seems obvious to old hands but newer drivers won’t have the confidence to say no and they are arguably the ones more likely to roll or lose it.

Already done. Seen it on many courses

Juddian:
Some mechanical training, what different braking systems do and which wheels they work on, how various retarders work (even those which make a noise and don’t ■■■■■■ worth spit).

I’ve seen this on courses too. Problem is - for some drivers they just don’t want to know this deep into their vehicle and would find such classes difficult. Some just drive and need to know the laws pertinent to them and nothing more

Juddian:
Include some basic info of how to check oils and fluids and top them up on various common vehicles, many of which now don’t have dipsticks (cue the usual joke) and in one case at least where the modern cab has to be tilted to add oil, which amazed me.

Juddian:
Quick run through of how to change headlight and front side/indicator bulbs on common trucks, not all companies have dumbed down to supermarket chauffer level yet, drivers in many companies still expected to perform simple stuff like bulb changes…sods law dictates no one who knows is about when it happens.

Some of the above would get more driver input and useful practical knowledge from regulars drivers of each make.
ie how many know new drivers would know about the crawl speed function both forward and reverse on the automatic boxes found on Daf/MAN/Fiat sorry Iveco.

All good stuff but again, some drivers just don’t want or need to know this sort of information

Juddian:
Driver input in a controlled discussion is a vital tool, time to learn from each other under guidance of the trainer come referee, long term drivers do pick up a lot of good and bad knowledge, seems a shame for that knowledge not to get passed…it would have done at one time in general haulage yards when a new driver was took under an older drivers wing amd taught the ropes, such as happened to me, that doesn’t happen in quite the same way any more, more’s the pity.

Loads more but a few of my thoughts.

This bit I like and agree 100%. Many times I find two drivers arguing over a point that is easily provable by reading the book. Usually one of them is wrong. I let each discuss their points, reasons for and why, then reconfirm my version and why one of them might be wrong.

Speedy Duck:
With respect Pete, you as a trainer have a vested interest in making it work, as do JAUPT and everone else involved receiving remuneration from DCPC.

We haven’t addressed ‘what you want’?

Yes I have a vested interest to some degree although DCPC is only a part of my business - but yes I’d like it to be a bigger part. I’m in business to make money :open_mouth:

I’ll tell you what I want (what I really really want). I’ll probably get laughed out of the place but …

I want to offer a good value for money service to drivers and companies. Honest, true and accurate training within the rules currently in existance. I want to make sure what I do is the best I can do and that my customers get value for money and something worth having. I put my all into what I do and try to give the customer what they want.

I like nothing better than realising something has just clicked with somebody and they ‘got it’. When an ‘older’ driver was about to lose his job because he just couldn’t get his head round one simple rule and all his bosses wanted to do was ask him to sign off infringements but never explained them to him. They were disciplining him for repeat infringements. Part way through a course it just clicked - he knew exactly what the problem was and couldn’t have been more relieved. All he needed was an exaplanation, a bit of time and it made sense to him. The people employing him were tossers but … he kept his job and no more infringements

The fact is the law says drivers have to have the DCPC. I didn’t do that bit. I saw a business opportunity just the same as anyone else selling products or services. I can supply DCPC and would like to think I do it fairly well. I can’t do anything about the other training establishments who don’t do it well apart from complain where I can. Their customers need to do the same - if the training isn’t right - complain.

Speedy Duck:
It is not for the drivers to say what they want. It is for the people who dreamt up the idea of ongoing training to indicate what they had in mind when they implemented the requirement. What we have seen in this ongoing post is suggestions as to what may be good. First aid would be good, but so it would be good for every occupation.
Are shopworkers, for an example, going to be compelled to undertake occupational training?

If the EU continue as they are then yes shop keepers probably will need occupational training :wink:

Haven’t the authorities already said what they want? They want certain drivers to attend some training every now and then. They have specified what the training is and how it will be done.

Doesn’t mean they were right though does it?

Speedy Duck:
I would like to educate myself further in vehicle mechanics, the law, and any number of other things, but that is not the point.

The point is, what did the people who came up with the idea that they would compel drivers to undertake occupational traning, see was wrong with the industry that motivated them to instigate the requirement?

I don’t know what they saw was wrong. I am guessing they saw a very large industry with potential for much harm to be done. An industry that is heavily regulated but sufferes from a lack of training.

Anyone who can’t see that training is required mustn’t work in the same industry as I have for the last 20 years. Training is very much needed. It should be the employers responsibility though

Although this is an interesting issue and it doesn’t affect me personally…I have read the EU directive concerning it.
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 59:EN:HTML

Paragraph 5 explains why it has been brought into force.

As to who’s idea it was to instigate the Directive?
Judging by the content of the Directive I’d hazard a guess and say respective:

  1. EU Member State…H&SE’s …and;
  2. EU Member State… Insurance Company Lobby’s.
    Corporate Governance will surely play it’s part in shifting any responsibility it can onto the worker in case of legal claims for negligence against a company or it’s drivers…in this case.
    Also to be remembered is that in the UK alone…there is a powerful Anti-LGV Lobby of which many of your respective MP’s support.
    Theres a start in answering those who ask the question…“Who’s brainless idea was this?” :smiley:

Can’t be bothered reading all the posts, but here’s my two pen’orth.
The DCPC in it’s present form is patronising and just a money making scam, but what do you expect from the UK. It should be a set course, run by a proper accreditation board with a real qualification at the end. It should contain useful information for drivers, such as a full course on tacho hours, the WTD and use of digital tachograph. There could be a course designed round correct walk round checks and vehicle maintenance. What about a hands on load security course with different types of trailers and different types of loads.
A first aid course, some kind of course to help with geography.
As long as there is a recognised qualification that would guarantee a rise wages to reflect your qualification.
The way it stands at the moment we are being taken for a ride by JAUPT and the DSA, the only ones who will actually benefit from this joke are the trainers and the treasury


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It’s not theirs anymore,
This is our England now.
Paaaaarrrrrrttttttttyyyyyyyy

Get someone other than smug ex vosa knobbers to teach them

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Can’t be bothered reading all the posts, but here’s my two pen’orth.
The DCPC in it’s present form is patronising and just a money making scam, but what do you expect from the UK. It should be a set course, run by a proper accreditation board with a real qualification at the end.

So what makes JAUPT not proper compared with SQA who do the ADR?
The qualification at the end - the DQC is a proper qualification. Can’t drive without it :wink:

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
It should contain useful information for drivers, such as a full course on tacho hours

Already there

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
the WTD and use of digital tachograph.

Already there

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
There could be a course designed round correct walk round checks and vehicle maintenance.

Yep there as well

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
What about a hands on load security course with different types of trailers and different types of loads.

Probably exists but just might prove more expensive due to what is involved. Plus the variety of loads across the industry is huge. I can see employers that run their own DCPC doing this but on the ‘open’ market difficult. There are courses cover the theory and legal side.

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
A first aid course

Definitly exists

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
some kind of course to help with geography.

Excellent idea … I like it. (makes note to look into this :smiley: )

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
As long as there is a recognised qualification that would guarantee a rise wages to reflect your qualification.

Ahhh … now you’ve got me.
That’d be up to the employers wouldn’t it? And in most cases they can’t afford it. So they put the prices up so they can pay for a proper qualified drivers. The supplier they carry for puts the price of the goods up to pay for the extra delivery charge. The supermarket (or whoever) does the same then your wife spends your extra wages paying for the stuff that costs more because of the extra haulage costs :unamused: :wink:

I think the only thing the qualification guarantees is that you would be legal to apply for a driving job.

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
The way it stands at the moment we are being taken for a ride by JAUPT and the DSA, the only ones who will actually benefit from this joke are the trainers and the treasury

Yes

dafinator:
Get someone other than smug ex vosa knobbers to teach them

I’m not ex VOSA :wink:

I am new on this site, and haven’t read all the replies to this thread yet, BUT…

I think it says it all in your posting.

You said you were going to give 4, then gave us 5 :unamused:

Speaks volumes as a “trainer” if you ask me :laughing:

Sorry for my first post to be an attack on a fellow forumite, I am obsessed against this DCPC carnage.

Will try harder from now on. :grimacing:

Spit Roast:
I am new on this site, and haven’t read all the replies to this thread yet, BUT…

I think it says it all in your posting.

You said you were going to give 4, then gave us 5 :unamused:

Speaks volumes as a “trainer” if you ask me :laughing:

Sorry for my first post to be an attack on a fellow forumite, I am obsessed against this DCPC carnage.

Will try harder from now on. :grimacing:

What is it with drivers and complaining? I gave you an extra for FREE and you complain■■? :unamused: :wink:

Had I realised I had given a point away for free … being a DCPC trainer I would have of course made sure I charged an extortionate amount for the extra.

We are a moaning ■■■■■■■■ lot (well some of us are)

Sorry, but I am right against this ridiculous carry on (driver for 25 years) I am all for updates on rules and regs and that is it.

Sorry I can’t offer more constructive input just yet, when I get more time I will chip in my 10 pence worth (well, a quids worth nowadays what with inflation and all)

shep532:
What is it with drivers and complaining? I gave you an extra for FREE and you complain■■? :unamused: :wink:

Drivers and complaining has always gone hand in hand. Problem is…some never seem to do anything about it other than complain. :laughing:

The DCPC is a start, I work in the domestic heating industry and hold qualifications for Gas, Electricty, Solid Fuel and Refrigeration. All of which are only valid for 5 years, when I first took my exams for gas it was turn up and pass, now most assessments are 100% pass mark (3 attempts allowed). To me having a high standard makes the qualification more worthwhile, you cannot expect anyone to respect a qualification that you don’t have to work for. As I said at the start it’s a start, once the cut off date has passed and a base level has been set the assessment needs to become progressively harder. This will progressively weed out those who are not up to the standard and improve both the public and self image of Truck Drivers.

To keep my qualifications up to date works out at about a week per year and about £500 in fees every year, and some of you in better paid jobs probably earn more than me, now both Truck Drivers and Gas Fitters do a job that if done badly can result in fatalitys.

I will be doing my DCPC soon as if the right job comes up I will go back to driving as I enjoy the lifestyle. Maybe sniffing the gas has damaged my brain.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

shep532:

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Can’t be bothered reading all the posts, but here’s my two pen’orth.
The DCPC in it’s present form is patronising and just a money making scam, but what do you expect from the UK. It should be a set course, run by a proper accreditation board with a real qualification at the end.

So what makes JAUPT not proper compared with SQA who do the ADR?
The qualification at the end - the DQC is a proper qualification. Can’t drive without it :wink:

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
It should contain useful information for drivers, such as a full course on tacho hours

Already there

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
the WTD and use of digital tachograph.

Already there

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
There could be a course designed round correct walk round checks and vehicle maintenance.

Yep there as well

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
What about a hands on load security course with different types of trailers and different types of loads.

Probably exists but just might prove more expensive due to what is involved. Plus the variety of loads across the industry is huge. I can see employers that run their own DCPC doing this but on the ‘open’ market difficult. There are courses cover the theory and legal side.

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
A first aid course

Definitly exists

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
some kind of course to help with geography.

Excellent idea … I like it. (makes note to look into this :smiley: )

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
As long as there is a recognised qualification that would guarantee a rise wages to reflect your qualification.

Ahhh … now you’ve got me.
That’d be up to the employers wouldn’t it? And in most cases they can’t afford it. So they put the prices up so they can pay for a proper qualified drivers. The supplier they carry for puts the price of the goods up to pay for the extra delivery charge. The supermarket (or whoever) does the same then your wife spends your extra wages paying for the stuff that costs more because of the extra haulage costs :unamused: :wink:

I think the only thing the qualification guarantees is that you would be legal to apply for a driving job.

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
The way it stands at the moment we are being taken for a ride by JAUPT and the DSA, the only ones who will actually benefit from this joke are the trainers and the treasury

Yes

Already there yes, but you can go to the course with a pillow, fall asleep for 7 hours times 5 and you can still drive.
JAUPT are a quango set up to take more money out of drivers pockets. Probably to help VOSA pay back the 12 million budget shortfall.


I am here: tapatalk.com/map.php?pxtwoi
It’s not theirs anymore,
This is our England now.
Paaaaarrrrrrttttttttyyyyyyyy

Tim1962:
The DCPC is a start, I work in the domestic heating industry and hold qualifications for Gas, Electricty, Solid Fuel and Refrigeration. All of which are only valid for 5 years, when I first took my exams for gas it was turn up and pass, now most assessments are 100% pass mark (3 attempts allowed). To me having a high standard makes the qualification more worthwhile, you cannot expect anyone to respect a qualification that you don’t have to work for. As I said at the start it’s a start, once the cut off date has passed and a base level has been set the assessment needs to become progressively harder. This will progressively weed out those who are not up to the standard and improve both the public and self image of Truck Drivers.

To keep my qualifications up to date works out at about a week per year and about £500 in fees every year, and some of you in better paid jobs probably earn more than me, now both Truck Drivers and Gas Fitters do a job that if done badly can result in fatalitys.

I will be doing my DCPC soon as if the right job comes up I will go back to driving as I enjoy the lifestyle. Maybe sniffing the gas has damaged my brain.

Nice post - well put and I think a fair comparison.

There are plenty of other trades where you have to have the right qualifications and you have to pay to get them.

Maybe the current DCPC is just to start of the process. Kind of makes sense.

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Already there yes, but you can go to the course with a pillow, fall asleep for 7 hours times 5 and you can still drive.
JAUPT are a quango set up to take more money out of drivers pockets. Probably to help VOSA pay back the 12 million budget shortfall.

Please don’t bring a pillow to my courses … I supply them as part of the fee :smiley:

But you don’t normally get chance to use them because it’s all just tooooo exciting :unamused: