Driver cpc - what do you want?

[shep532]

OK - bit of a daft question 'cos the most common answer is going to be “Scrap it” But … I run a JAUPT Approved DCPC Training Centre and I think the current DCPC setup is less than perfect and needs some attention.

It’s OK drivers coming on this excellent forum and voicing their opinions - but where does that get you and what does it achieve?

As I have said - I would like to see some changes made and I would like to get feedback from Drivers on here and see what (apart from scrap it - 'cos that aint gonna happen) you would like to see. My intention is then to take that information, put it into a presentable format - get together with other JAUPT Approved Centres and take it to the people that need to know, whether that be JAUPT, DSA or some MP(s) somewhere.

If as drivers (and yes I have been a driver and who knows, may become one again) we are going to be stuck with this DCPC then let’s try to have some kind of influence over it and see if we can’t make it something like it should be.

If you just want to moan and groan or belittle Trainers … Please go start you own ‘Trainer Bashing’ thread and go air your opinions in there. But if you have some valid points or a valid criticism, feedback etc then put it into writing here and I’ll gather it all up and start from there.

It all may come to nothing and I never get to speak to the powers that be … but I don’t give in easily, I like to have my say and certainly don’t shy away from confrontation - so I reckon I’ll enjoy passing on all your feedback - but it needs to be sensible guys

So what changes would you like to see?

I’ll start the ball rolling with 4 off my wish list;

1. Stop allowing courses to be repeated ‘willynilly’ and place some sort of timescale on a course (i.e Drivers Hours rules 24 months)

2. Make it compulsory to complete a minimum of 1 course per year (or 12 months)

3. Introduce some sort of testing or assessment of trainees. Maybe not an exam with a pass/fail as such as in ADR but at least have Training Centres give a test or assessment and then file the results away so they can be checked or monitored at a later date

4. Rate/Score training centres when they have been audited and publish these scores (and the audit reports) on the JAUPT website allowing drivers/employers to select a training service based on merit rather than having to try them to find out if they are any good

5. Make the whole DCPC thing MORE of the employers responsibility than the drivers. Not sure how that’d work - not thought about that bit yet but I know I hate that it is the drivers responsibility.

So that’s my top 5 things I’d like to see looked at.

Now before anyone has a go just 'cos I’m a trainer and what do I know etc (heard it all before) - this isn’t about ME or the other trainers. The training centres and trainers just work within the framework and rules given to them and most of the real issues aren’t their doing. This is about the ORGANISATION, the RULES and the REGULATIONS

No I’m not trying to sell my services … ask me for a booking on a course and I’ll say no I’m just a little fed up of the moans and groans - where’s the positive stuff? Where’s the useful feedback that can make things better?

Lets keep it sensible. If you can’t … if you’re fingers are already hovering over the keyboard ready to vent your anger at this insult to professional drivers that they call the DCPC - just take a deep breath, sit back and think for a few minutes. What can be done to make it better?

If the only thing you can come up with is SCRAP IT - then at least give a decent answer as to why rather than just “Because I’ve been doing this job 20 years, what can you teach me you’ve never even driven”

Thanks
Pete

[happydaze]

I want to actually learn something I didn’t already know, or be shown something from a different perspective perhaps.

I don’t want to be patronised by a person in a shiny hi-viz spouting yet another load of government sponsored rubbish, as they take part in yet another great Pan-European job creation programme.

What’s wrong with somebody saying they’ve been doing their job for 20 years anyway? If it’s true and the person taking the course cannot teach them something new, there’s very little point in them being there.

Let’s have it right, if we’re going to be made to do this then let’s actually learn something, not just go through the motions.

[theonlybigman]

I heard a guy a couple of months back telling me he sat the same course 5 times and got his DCPC card. Surely the same course should not be allowed?

[scaniason]

I’ll stick my head above the parapet!

I’ve only just passed my C & CE tests, and know next to nothing about operating a lorry - I use the term operating, as I think there’s a lot more to it than just aiming it down the road. What experience I have of HGVs is limited to going overseas with my Dad 30 odd years ago. However, because I passed my car test pre-97, I have grandfather rights and don’t need to do the Initial CPC!

So for me, I need to know about hours & tachos, safe loading, daily inspections, how the truck works etc. For somebody who has been driving for donkey’s years, most of those subjects are going to be old hat, and they might need guidance on, I don’t know, new legislation, rather than how to load a trailer. Maybe this where it needs to be some sort of staged thing - basic for the likes of me, more advanced for the more experienced. Certainly being able to do the same course 5 times to get a ticket is ludicrous.

I also agree that there should be more feedback, rather than just sitting there being talked at for 7 hours. I don’t know whether a test is the answer, or a more informal quiz, or just a simple means of checking understanding. When I did my Hours course, one guy on there turned up and promptly went to sleep for the day. The only time he stirred was a breaktime and when his phone (repeatedly) bleeped with a new text, which he’d respond to before dropping back off to sleep!

Just my 2p worth.

Gary

[shep532]

Happydaze:
I want to actually learn something I didn’t already know, or be shown something from a different perspective perhaps.

Such as? What topics would you like to see available? This is exactly what I am trying to get at … what do you want to see?

How many different perspectives can there be on the general topics such as Drivers Hours Rules etc?

Happydaze:
What’s wrong with somebody saying they’ve been doing their job for 20 years anyway? If it’s true and the person taking the course cannot teach them something new, there’s very little point in them being there.

Let’s have it right, if we’re going to be made to do this then let’s actually learn something, not just go through the motions.

Yep - couldn’t agree more. But if you’ve been doing the job 20 years - why book that particular course?
I have come across quite a few of the “What can you teach me” brigade and some of them actually left the session having learnt something - so it can work But it’s about booking the right course I suppose.

[shep532]

theonlybigman:
I heard a guy a couple of months back telling me he sat the same course 5 times and got his DCPC card. Surely the same course should not be allowed?

Yes it happens and it shouldn’t. Two parties at fault. The authorities for allowing it and the driver for doing it. Either him or his company wasted their money

[shep532]

scaniason:
I’ll stick my head above the parapet!

I’ve only just passed my C & CE tests, and know next to nothing about operating a lorry - I use the term operating, as I think there’s a lot more to it than just aiming it down the road. What experience I have of HGVs is limited to going overseas with my Dad 30 odd years ago. However, because I passed my car test pre-97, I have grandfather rights and don’t need to do the Initial CPC!

So for me, I need to know about hours & tachos, safe loading, daily inspections, how the truck works etc. For somebody who has been driving for donkey’s years, most of those subjects are going to be old hat, and they might need guidance on, I don’t know, new legislation, rather than how to load a trailer. Maybe this where it needs to be some sort of staged thing - basic for the likes of me, more advanced for the more experienced. Certainly being able to do the same course 5 times to get a ticket is ludicrous.

All excellent points that clarify it is about booking the right course. FInd out the course content before booking - if it is something you don’t need to learn don’t book it. Of course if you know everything you’re gonna struggle

scaniason:
I also agree that there should be more feedback, rather than just sitting there being talked at for 7 hours. I don’t know whether a test is the answer, or a more informal quiz, or just a simple means of checking understanding. When I did my Hours course, one guy on there turned up and promptly went to sleep for the day. The only time he stirred was a breaktime and when his phone (repeatedly) bleeped with a new text, which he’d respond to before dropping back off to sleep!

I do run ‘quizzes’ and question and answer sessions, interactive learning checks etc. I also give written tests (which aren’t allowed under DCPC) and file the answer sheets - this should be standard training practice, not just stand there and read out from a flamin book or screen. This really pees me off and it’s nobodies fault but the trainer and his boss.

As for going to sleep in the class - shouldn’t be happening and someone should report that training centre or it’ll never improve.

[happydaze]

shep532:

Happydaze:
I want to actually learn something I didn’t already know, or be shown something from a different perspective perhaps.

Such as? What topics would you like to see available? This is exactly what I am trying to get at … what do you want to see?

How many different perspectives can there be on the general topics such as Drivers Hours Rules etc?

Happydaze:
What’s wrong with somebody saying they’ve been doing their job for 20 years anyway? If it’s true and the person taking the course cannot teach them something new, there’s very little point in them being there.

Let’s have it right, if we’re going to be made to do this then let’s actually learn something, not just go through the motions.

Yep - couldn’t agree more. But if you’ve been doing the job 20 years - why book that particular course?
I have come across quite a few of the “What can you teach me” brigade and some of them actually left the session having learnt something - so it can work But it’s about booking the right course I suppose.

Quite a few I’d say. Between the Operator, Driver, Police, VOSA, Lawyers, Judiciary and the EU I’d say there were an awful lot of perspectives on Drivers Hours.

I’d like to see the perception of HGVs and their Drivers from the woman who pulled out in front of me on a horse in Wimbledon a few weeks ago, for example. Maybe an Equine awareness day, where horse riders drive a lorry and drivers have a go on a horse.

[solly]

It’s simple really.
The DCPC is a legal reqirement if you wish to continue driving a truck as a vocation…is it not?. Then it would be easier to bite the bullet, and attend. Drivers…and… I don’t care how long any of you have been driving…don’t know everything. eg look at some of the questions asked on this forum by “Professional Drivers”! DCPC could and probably would answer most of them for you.
Going “Back to school” can be daunting but it doesn’t have to be dergrading as some consider it. There’s nothing degrading about it. I’m sure the instructors won’t consider it degrading or make you feel degraded.
The whole trucking industry is changing about your ears and most drivers aren’t being kept up to speed with it. The DCPC looks to be one way of keeping you all abreast of the changes. Grab the chance and be on level pegs with those who are “Up to speed”.
Remember you are not the only industry or profession who have to attend regular courses like… or similar to this to continue to do their job of work.

[happydaze]

Solly:
It’s simple really.
The DCPC is a legal reqirement if you wish to continue driving a truck as a vocation…is it not?. Then it would be easier to bite the bullet, and attend. Drivers…and… I don’t care how long any of you have been driving…don’t know everything. eg look at some of the questions asked on this forum by “Professional Drivers”! DCPC could and probably would answer most of them for you.
Going “Back to school” can be daunting but it doesn’t have to be dergrading as some consider it. There’s nothing degrading about it. I’m sure the instructors won’t consider it degrading or make you feel degraded.
The whole trucking industry is changing about your ears and most drivers aren’t being kept up to speed with it. The DCPC looks to be one way of keeping you all abreast of the changes. Grab the chance and be on level pegs with those who are “Up to speed”.
Remember you are not the only industry or profession who have to attend regular courses like… or similar to this to continue to do their job of work.

See what I mean about being patronised? ^^ This is what puts people off.

[solly]

Happydaze:
See what I mean about being patronised? ^^ This is what puts people off.

PATRONISING■■? FFS 'Daze.
Grow some. There’s nothing patronising about it.
Look. If you don’t do the DCPC there are …to use the usual get-out-clause on this forum…plenty out there who will do your job…and if you don’t do it. Serves you all ■■■■■■■ right. Personally I couldn’t give a ■■■■.

[wheel_nut]

Solly:
It’s simple really.
The DCPC is a legal reqirement if you wish to continue driving a truck as a vocation…is it not?. Then it would be easier to bite the bullet, and attend. Drivers…and… I don’t care how long any of you have been driving…don’t know everything. eg look at some of the questions asked on this forum by “Professional Drivers”! DCPC could and probably would answer most of them for you.
Going “Back to school” can be daunting but it doesn’t have to be dergrading as some consider it. There’s nothing degrading about it. I’m sure the instructors won’t consider it degrading or make you feel degraded.
The whole trucking industry is changing about your ears and most drivers aren’t being kept up to speed with it. The DCPC looks to be one way of keeping you all abreast of the changes. Grab the chance and be on level pegs with those who are “Up to speed”.
Remember you are not the only industry or profession who have to attend regular courses like… or similar to this to continue to do their job of work.

Interesting viewpoint.

However, the training should come from within and start with some of the managers and planners.
They talk to drivers like crap and would do well with a man management course.

They send millions of pounds worth of goods out on the road with not a care for driver or load security.

Their geographical knowledge is poor or non existent.

They don’t allow enough time for extra duties, like load securing, vehicle checks or unavoidable traffic delays

Unfortunately, the days of the drivers going for a pint with the boss are very rare when grievances can be ironed out, beer drunk, jokes told which lightened the evening. I come from the old school and don’t particularly care for the new community learning. I will do it if necessary but as I can make as much noise in protest as possible. I will do just that until 2016 when the foreigners go home.

[gogzy]

I would like to see some sort of course where you can take a truck to its limits and what to do in a skid etc like a skid pan sort of thing.

or is it just me who has a thing for taking anything with wheels on it sideways?

[happydaze]

Solly:

Happydaze:
See what I mean about being patronised? ^^ This is what puts people off.

PATRONISING■■? FFS 'Daze.
Grow some. There’s nothing patronising about it.
Look. If you don’t do the DCPC there are …to use the usual get-out-clause on this forum…plenty out there who will do your job…and if you don’t do it. Serves you all [zb] right. Personally I couldn’t give a [zb].

Where did I say I wasn’t going to do it? Quite the opposite, I want to actually learn something. Read your post again, you sound like a Diane Abbott soundbite.

I look forward to you proffering the same advice to our tanker drivers if they decide to “not go to work” eventually.

[solly]

@wheelnut.

I understand what you are saying thats why I quoted "Grab the chance and be on level pegs with those who are “Up to speed”. Maybe I should have said “Who think they are up to speed”.

Yes the traffic office should be shaken up. Nobody would argue with that. Maybe their time is just around the corner, but as the OP ask… DRIVER CPC - WHAT DO YOU WANT?
Let these people know what you want then maybe you’ll get it and benefit from it. Worth a try at least.

[solly]

Happydaze:

Solly:

Happydaze:
See what I mean about being patronised? ^^ This is what puts people off.

PATRONISING■■? FFS 'Daze.
Grow some. There’s nothing patronising about it.
Look. If you don’t do the DCPC there are …to use the usual get-out-clause on this forum…plenty out there who will do your job…and if you don’t do it. Serves you all [zb] right. Personally I couldn’t give a [zb].

Where did I say I wasn’t going to do it? Quite the opposite, I want to actually learn something. Read your post again, you sound like a Diane Abbott soundbite.

I look forward to you proffering the same advice to our tanker drivers if they decide to “not go to work” eventually.

Then do the DCPC then and stop whinging.

As for the Tanker drivers…they will do as they wish. Simples.

[happydaze]

Solly:

Happydaze:

Solly:

Happydaze:
See what I mean about being patronised? ^^ This is what puts people off.

PATRONISING■■? FFS 'Daze.
Grow some. There’s nothing patronising about it.
Look. If you don’t do the DCPC there are …to use the usual get-out-clause on this forum…plenty out there who will do your job…and if you don’t do it. Serves you all [zb] right. Personally I couldn’t give a [zb].

Where did I say I wasn’t going to do it? Quite the opposite, I want to actually learn something. Read your post again, you sound like a Diane Abbott soundbite.

I look forward to you proffering the same advice to our tanker drivers if they decide to “not go to work” eventually.

Then do the DCPC then and stop whinging.

As for the Tanker drivers…they will do as they wish. Simples.

If there is a whinge in what I have said, point it out. If I have said I wouldn’t do it, show me where.

[speedy_duck]

Yes Pete good question ‘what do you want?’

Something that adds to my skill base.

Hope you get constructive answers.

Have you thought about asking the people who came up with the idea of making it a requirement.

While you are asking them, ask them how the thought process went. Did they pick on truck and bus drivers because of a perception to improve casualties? Did they have any specific form of training in mind when formulating the requirement?

SD

[happydaze]

Speedy Duck:
Yes Pete good question ‘what do you want?’

Something that adds to my skill base.

Hope you get constructive answers.

Have you thought about asking the people who came up with the idea of making it a requirement.

While you are asking them, ask them how the thought process went. Did they pick on truck and bus drivers because of a perception to improve casualties? Did they have any specific form of training in mind when formulating the requirement?

SD

I’ll second you asking those questions too please!

[wheel_nut]

gogzy:
I would like to see some sort of course where you can take a truck to its limits and what to do in a skid etc like a skid pan sort of thing.

or is it just me who has a thing for taking anything with wheels on it sideways?

I can elaborate on that plan. I am going to get a couple of tractor units, 3 or 4 old trailers and some electronic height markers, let the driver take a trundle round my track and for every “bridge” he hits, he pays me £50

I think skid pan testing is a great idea and Transalliance have their own circuit in France for teaching the drivers some extra skills.