Brentanna:
This is a government act or regulation that requires these errrrr refresher courses right ?
Hi Brentanna,
Yes, that’s correct.
Brentanna:
We all know how totally logical all government mandated things are. Need I say more.
Nope, point taken.
Brentanna:
Actually I will maybe this is something you can nicely bring to their attention that it is not fair to the people instructing the stuff if they dont get any credit for the hours they put in , for the DCPC.
There wouldn’t be any point, because they wouldn’t listen when we first tried pointing this out to them when the consultation for this DCPC nonsense came out two(ish) years ago.
You probably wouldn’t believe the real travesty about this, but here goes…
In the case of ADR (hazmat,) the providers (not me) have to pay the same Govt. dept. TWICE for the for the dubious privilege of their course approval, and the guys here think that the providers are raking in the cash, or the other complete myth doing the rounds is that the providers invented the DCPC.
Ok so you have to sit in as a errr Student to get credit for the hours right ? Well if you know someone else in the same boat do a bit of barter. Sit in on his classed he sits in on yours as students. Then you both will get hours credited.
But, I’m now out of work, when I went to sign on the dole I asked about any funded training and a dCPC course was just starting, so I’ve done another 35hrs, so I’ve now done 42 of my 35 hrs lol.
With grandfather rights too, I’m good till 2019 now. And I’m still out of work
FarnboroughBoy11:
He said if there is an accident on say the M25 and the police close it and your sitting there stationary for an hour and the digi display records “other work” you should make a manual recording of “driving” as your still in control of the vehicle on a public highway. If the police open it again and VOSA take your reg as your passing through and you continue your day in the manner that you spent that hour under “other work” instead of “driving time” then they turn up at your base they will do you for falsification.
Total ■■■■■■■■. You could, for example, recline the seat and have a nap or read a book in which case it would tick all the boxes for this -
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006, Article 4 (d) ‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation;
He shouldn’t be teaching tacho stuff as he clearly doesn’t know basic stuff, such as what constitutes driving for the tacho regulations.
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006, Article 4 (j) ‘driving time’ means the duration of driving activity recorded:
– automatically or semi-automatically by the recording equipment as defined in Annex I and Annex IB
of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85, or
– manually as required by Article 16(2) of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85;
Article 16(2) of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 mentioned above with regard to manual entries is what to do in the event of the equipment or drivers card being unserviceable or malfunctioning and nothing to do with being stuck in a traffic jam.
Following his advice could lead to an offence of falsifying tachograph records, an offence which if found guilty of could carry up to 2 years imprisonment.
Of course the biggest clue this bloke was talking ■■■■■■■■ is that when making a manual entry on a digital tachograph you have three modes to choose from for the entry you are making, Break, Other Work and POA, you cannot enter driving as a manual entry.
But, I’m now out of work, when I went to sign on the dole I asked about any funded training and a dCPC course was just starting, so I’ve done another 35hrs, so I’ve now done 42 of my 35 hrs lol.
With grandfather rights too, I’m good till 2019 now. And I’m still out of work
You are? I thought the training was valid for 5 years…?
I did my first 7 hours yesterday. It was obviously useful as a proportion of it was devoted to drivers hours and WTD and it was clear that many in the class were lacking in the basics. Didn’t cost me a thing and I got 7 hours at time and a half for being there plus bacon sarnies!
I have done a grand total of sweet FA towards my DCPC,my ADR runs out next year,so my retake will be a big chunk of the DCPC out the way,paid for by the company so kills three birds with one stone I’ll worry about the remaining hours once my ADR is done,company are offering free DCPC sessions on a Fri afternoon and Sat morning so probably finish it off at one of those.Not sure if we get paid for the training,but it’s free so can’t really complain.Personally I think this whole DCPC thing is a crock,but thems the rules so what can we do.I did raise the point that our office staff/planners/trained monkeys could probably benefit from doing this training,as they seem to have no concept of tacho regs,WTD,etc,surely they should also have to be “qualified” if they’re going to be running us?
But, I’m now out of work, when I went to sign on the dole I asked about any funded training and a dCPC course was just starting, so I’ve done another 35hrs, so I’ve now done 42 of my 35 hrs lol.
With grandfather rights too, I’m good till 2019 now. And I’m still out of work
You are? I thought the training was valid for 5 years…?
It is. However as you have until September 2014 to complete the training no one will be penalised for completing early and all DCPC cards issued now will have an expiry date in September 2019, I think it is 9th or 10th September.
Also something I remember ROG pointing out on here a while back. If you spent the last week before the cut off date in September 2014 doing 35 hours training you would be issued with a card valid until September 2019. If the next week you did another 35 hours training that will then get you a card with the expiry date in September 2024, I think it is issued automatically when the 2019 card expires. You could then leave any further training until the week before the expiry date in 2024 and that would be 10 years between training, September 2014 - September 2024. Not really ongoing training in that case.
FarnboroughBoy11:
He said if there is an accident on say the M25 and the police close it and your sitting there stationary for an hour and the digi display records “other work” you should make a manual recording of “driving” as your still in control of the vehicle on a public highway. If the police open it again and VOSA take your reg as your passing through and you continue your day in the manner that you spent that hour under “other work” instead of “driving time” then they turn up at your base they will do you for falsification.
Total ■■■■■■■■. You could, for example, recline the seat and have a nap or read a book in which case it would tick all the boxes for this -
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006, Article 4 (d) ‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation;
He shouldn’t be teaching tacho stuff as he clearly doesn’t know basic stuff, such as what constitutes driving for the tacho regulations.
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006, Article 4 (j) ‘driving time’ means the duration of driving activity recorded:
– automatically or semi-automatically by the recording equipment as defined in Annex I and Annex IB
of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85, or
– manually as required by Article 16(2) of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85;
Article 16(2) of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 mentioned above with regard to manual entries is what to do in the event of the equipment or drivers card being unserviceable or malfunctioning and nothing to do with being stuck in a traffic jam.
Following his advice could lead to an offence of falsifying tachograph records, an offence which if found guilty of could carry up to 2 years imprisonment.
Of course the biggest clue this bloke was talking ■■■■■■■■ is that when making a manual entry on a digital tachograph you have three modes to choose from for the entry you are making, Break, Other Work and POA, you cannot enter driving as a manual entry.
Thanks for clearing that up mate, i didn’t want to keep pressing him obviously in front of everyone and questioning him but i was so adamant he was wrong. He said he was a driver and operator for 20 plus years and I don’t disbeleive him but it makes you wonder how many other instructors have got little bits wrong as well.
When he said make a manual entry I think he was reffering to write it in a log book. The more you think about it the more daft it sounds. The wheels are not turning the engine is off, how are you driving
…it makes you wonder how many other instructors have got little bits wrong as well.
Judging by posts on here far too many of them.
FarnboroughBoy11:
When he said make a manual entry I think he was reffering to write it in a log book.
So even worse he was telling you to make a manual entry in a way that means nothing for the tacho rules.
FarnboroughBoy11:
The more you think about it the more daft it sounds. The wheels are not turning the engine is off, how are you driving
The engine doesn’t even have to be off. If the tacho unit is not recording it as driving then it simply isn’t driving for the purpose of the EU Driver’s Hours Regulations.
‘driving time’ means the duration of driving activity
recorded:
– automatically or semi-automatically by the recording
equipment as defined in Annex I and Annex IB
of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85, or
– manually as required by Article 16(2) of Regulation
(EEC) No 3821/85;
Domestic regs in GV262-02 =
Driving is defined as being at the controls of a vehicle for the purposes of controlling its movement,
whether it is moving or stationary with the engine running, even for a short period of time.
I wonder if the trainer only drove under domestic regs !!
FarnboroughBoy11:
Thanks for clearing that up mate, i didn’t want to keep pressing him obviously in front of everyone and questioning him but i was so adamant he was wrong. He said he was a driver and operator for 20 plus years and I don’t disbeleive him but it makes you wonder how many other instructors have got little bits wrong as well.
Probably loads.
I hear loads of stories about 15hrs + 11 off is ok, you can do 3x 15hrs and 3x 9hrs rest and they don’t associate the 2 of them.
Then, on my course, they brought in about split daily rest, but (and I have this in writing) it was stated that you could do 6hrs work, have 3hrs rest, 6hrs work then 9hrs rest. This must then be followed by a 12hr rest within the next 24hrs??
I’ve never heard that and can’t find that anywhere other than in the book given by this trainer, as far as I knew, if you had a 3hr rest and a 9hr rest it was the equivelent of a normal rest instead of a reduced and as far as I knew, you could do this everyday of the week if you wanted (subject to normal driving and working hours regs of course)
So, if anyone else has heard that 1 or wants to tell me that he’s right and I’m wrong (which I’m happy enough to get told if I am), post here
waynedl:
Then, on my course, they brought in about split daily rest, but (and I have this in writing) it was stated that you could do 6hrs work, have 3hrs rest, 6hrs work then 9hrs rest. This must then be followed by a 12hr rest within the next 24hrs??
I can only GUESS he meant to say that it must be 12 hours off in 24 using a 3 + 9 to make a split daily rest
You also have the option to split a regular daily rest period into two periods. The first period must be at least three hours of continuous rest and taken at any time during the day. The second must be at least nine hours of continuous rest, giving a total minimum rest of 12 hours.
waynedl:
Then, on my course, they brought in about split daily rest, but (and I have this in writing) it was stated that you could do 6hrs work, have 3hrs rest, 6hrs work then 9hrs rest. This must then be followed by a 12hr rest within the next 24hrs??
I can only GUESS he meant to say that it must be 12 hours off in 24 using a 3 + 9 to make a split daily rest
Denis F:
what he should have said was :-
You also have the option to split a regular daily rest period into two periods. The first period must be at least three hours of continuous rest and taken at any time during the day. The second must be at least nine hours of continuous rest, giving a total minimum rest of 12 hours.
which he very nearly did but he tried to simplfy it and ended up making a muddle of it
Yes, this is how I work it, 3 + 9 = 12 and doesn’t count as reduced, counts as split daily rest.
His words were, “minimum of 3 + minimum of 9, this must then be FOLLOWED by a 12hr rest within 24hr period”
As I said, confusing the ■■■■ out of people that either don’t know because they’ve not used tacho’s, or (in the case of 1 driver on our course) those who don’t know the new rules due to being out of the industry for a while (he’d been workng on sites driving plant machinery).
Also, the drivers CPC currently states “Each new five-year period will begin from the expiry date of your current Driver CPC qualification, and not from the date on which you reached the 35 hours minimum training requirement”, which sounds like you could do 70hrs and not have to worry about it till 2024, I’m sure that doesn’t work though.
I’ve actually done 42 hrs, because I did 7 myself, then got a full course paid for by the social, so am I 7hrs in on my next 1, or does it all reset?
Rob K:
Rog, do you know if they test you on the UK tacho regs or the EU tacho regs?
No testing at all for the dcpc periodic courses - there may be exams if the dcpc course is covering the training time for something like an ADR course but the test/EXAM time is not part of the dcpc bit
If there was a test then maybe a lot of the trainers spouting rubbish would be weedled out as there would be a record.
On the dcpc course I attended there was time given to the EU regs and the UK domestic regs but they were done one after the other with no break inbetween - this confused a few who got them mixed up - would have been better to have a coffee break between the two sets of regs - again, testing would have shown if any trainee was still not sure on the info
ROG:
On the dcpc course I attended there was time given to the EU regs and the UK domestic regs but they were done one after the other with no break inbetween - this confused a few who got them mixed up - would have been better to have a coffee break between the two sets of regs - again, testing would have shown if any trainee was still not sure on the info
Ours did similar but also included AETR regs, he pointed out that they’re not used by the countries mentioned, but still let the video show, so we had EU, then AETR, then domestic rules shown 1 after the other.
Not bad for us old gits, I started on busses, so knew domestic rules, AETR is basically how we used to run tacho’s before 2006. But, for some of the newer guys, that must’ve been cofusing to hell.
