drink driving

[duffus]

sorry but put your self in tc position
drink drive ban twice in a car
are you will to be resonsable for tellin a family that you thort he had learnt his lesson after 2 times of DD
are you goin to give him a licence for a 44 ton weapon or stop a potental RTA
sorry but there are to many accidents to do with DD
so in my opinion i wouldnt want to feel that if gave him his hgv i could be one of the causes of a death or RTA
so id say no to provented a death or RTA

sorry but im a driver not a tc an i wouldnt want to see an RTA an feel responsible for it
on offence

[bigandy]

rog,a quick google search came up with this,

I. OVERVIEW

A. Absorption
Alcohol is primarily absorbed through the stomach and the small intestines. It is considered a food because it has calories, but does not need to be digested and proceeds directly into the body through the digestive system. After ingestion it is carried through the blood stream and crosses the blood—brain barrier, at which time impairment begins. A greater amount of ingestion causes greater impairment to the brain, which, in turn, causes a person to have a greater degree of difficulty in functioning.

B. Metabolism/Elimination
The majority of alcohol in the body is eliminated by the liver. Ninety percent is eliminated through the body, while ten percent is eliminated (unchanged) through sweat and urine. Before the liver can process alcohol, a threshold amount is needed and can occur at the rate of one 12 oz. can of beer, one 5 oz. glass of wine, or 1 1/2 oz. shot of whiskey per hour.

C. Brief Overview

Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant.

Alcohol is among the most abused drugs in our society.

Alcohol can be as potent as many other illegal drugs.

Alcohol can cause severe damage to a developing fetus.

People often do not realize that they are becoming dependent on alcohol.

D. Short-term Effects

Reduces sensitivity to pain.

Affects vision in the following ways: narrows the visual field, reduces resistance to glare, interferes with the ability to differentiate intensities of light, and lessens sensitivity to colors.

E. Long-term Effects

Damage to vital organs; including liver, heart and pancreas.

Linked to several medical conditions; including gastro intestinal problems, malnutrition, high blood pressure, and lower resistance to disease. Also linked to several types of cancer; including esophagus, stomach, liver, pancreas and colon.

F. Special Hazards Involving the Driving Task
Specific elements to the hazards of alcohol use and driving are listed in a separate section of the curriculum. However, alcohol impairs one’s ability to drive or operate machinery safely.

G. Effects with Other Drugs

Alcohol produces a synergistic effect when taken with other central nervous system depressants. These include: sedative hypnotics, barbiturates, minor tranquilizers, narcotics, codeine, methadone, and some analgesics.

Alcohol can be additive in nature when taken with antipsychotic medications, antihistamines, solvents or motion sickness preparations. When used on a daily basis, in conjunction with aspirin, it may cause gastro intestinal bleeding. Also, when used with acetaminophen, an increase in liver damage could occur.

II. BLOOD ALCOHOL CONCENTRATIONS

Alcohol begins to affect individuals prior to reaching the legally intoxicated Blood Alcohol Concentration level of .08%. If a 150 lb. person consumes one drink equal to twelve ounces of beer (5 percent alcohol), five ounces of wine (12 percent alcohol) or one-and-a-half ounces of hard liquor (40 percent alcohol), all would contain about the same amount of alcohol and would raise the person’s Blood Alcohol Concentration about .02%. It takes the liver approximately one hour to oxidize or metabolize one drink.

A. Factors Influencing Blood Alcohol Concentrations

Weight

Gender

Food in Stomach

Duration of Administration

Dosage

note the last part on weight and gender.

[cruise_control]

Well ask you self this question…

If you were that TC who had the job of deciding if that person should get their HGV licence back or not and you had that evidence in front of you (that’s been mentioned on here) what would you do

Personally going on the evidence I wouldn’t give it back, but that’s my opinion. They have done it twice so like others have said what it stopping them from potentially driving a 44ton truck while three sheets to the wind .

[alexc]

ROG, See also the DfT’s own advice.

Regarding the OP’s question, my view in general would be that after a second ban, I wouldn’t consider a person fit to hold a vocational licence. That said, if both bans were a long time ago (>10 years), and that person has had an impeccable driving record since, then it’s probably safe to say that the lesson has been learned.

[billybigrig]

ROG:

billybigrig:
My good lady is of a medical background and her inference is that as everyones body is different, that is not the case. Everyones liver functions at a different metabolic rate

I can only suggest that your good lady asks an expert on the liver function this question -
Does the liver filter out alcohol at the same rate in everyone?
Perhaps you could get back to us with the answer she gets

Well I called her and asked ROG

She confirms that no 2 livers Metabolise (they dont’ filter apparently that’s the kidneys job after the metabolisation ) alcohol at the same rate.
She says to think of it in simple terms. No 2 livers are the same size or efficiency. If you are having Liver or Kidney difficulties you are given certain tests and then given a score, so to speak, like “you only have 60% liver function” for example.
As to the other factors, barked down the phone at me, in no specific order.
The following affect your ability to metabolise alcohol :

Body temperature
Metabolic body rate
Hydration levels
Body mass index
General fitness level

Forgot the rest

She did say that the whole eating with it thing is a grossly over stated point though, as if you had eaten a rich meal then your liver would also be busy dealing with that too and so less able to deal with the booze

A more critical thing is in fact general health in terms of cardio vascular (so that’s most of us knackered then), cholesterol and arterial plaque etc. As best as I could understand it it this : the reaction in your liver to break down alcohol requires oxygen and so if you for example smoke or have poor heart/lung health your not able to carry as much oxygen in your blood so you can’t break down alcohol as fast. She says she has some study figures somewhere at work that say basically someone with 90% liver function but who has smoked for x years and thus only has a reduced oxygen carriage level can metabolise less alcohol per unit of time than say a non smoking fit person with 80% liver function.

OK I think that’s basically what she said, apologies if it’s not word for word but she started going on about shopping and the hoovering needing to be done so I kind of tuned out

It’s basically in her words “how long is a peice of string” question. I did ask Rikki if he had any research on the piece of string thing the other night but he hasn’t got back to me yet

[ohterry]

some good replies here…(apart from rog’s dribble)

iirc his last ban was about 7 yrs ago and 3 yrs from previous one.

i to think he should consider himself lucky if he were to get it on appeal, he aint a bad lad tbh just liked a drink.

thanks for the replies so far…

[kenny1975]

While there is a difference between different people and their body types etc… of how much drink will put them over the limit, its not a great amount.

Like a large guy maybe take 1/2 pint more to go over the limit compared to a small female, there is a difference but in reality its not that much and certainly not well i’m a big bloke with lots of tollerance so i can drink 6 drinks and be under the limit.

The amount of drink you can drink before going over the limit is vague on purpose, to stop people gambling with their licences.

The reality is you can drink quite a bit more than most people think and still be under the limit.

Another one off traffic cops program, the guy pulled in Hull his younger brother driving with no insurance, he was driving his older brother who had been in the pub all night. The police where ok with him and said car would be towed because no one insured was able to drive, they asked him how much he had to drink he thought about 5 pints over the course of the night, they let him take a breath test to see if he was fit to drive and he was just under it. They told him they would let him drive home cause it was just along the road instead of getting it towed, but to go straight home and don’t drive the rest of the night.

[delboytwo]

this link is to a blood alcohol content calculator

drinkdriving.org/drink_drivi … ulator.php

this is a quote from the same website

FACTORS THAT AFFECT YOUR BAC - Blood Alcohol Content

Numerous factors can affect an individuals BAC, these include:

• The amount of alcohol a person consumes, the more they drink, the higher their BAC will become

• The speed at which a person consumes alcohol, the faster a person drinks, the faster their BAC will rise

• A persons gender. Alcohol is highly water soluble and a persons BAC is directly proportional to their total body water content. Females generally have less water in their bodies than males, this means that a female who drinks exactly the same amount of alcohol as a male, in the same space of time, will generally have a higher BAC.

• A persons weight. The more a person weighs generally means the more water they will have in their bodies, meaning any alcohol ingested will produce a lower alcohol to blood ratio than that of a person weighing less. This is because the alcohol is “spread out” more “thinly”.

• A persons fat/muscle content. Fatty tissue does not absorb alcohol very well, alcohol will be absorbed a lot more into other tissues which are rich in water such as muscle. If two people weighing 90kg, one a tall thin person and the other a small fat person consumed the same amount of alcohol, the small fat person would have a higher BAC than the thin person.

• A persons metabolism (the rate at which alcohol is processed and eliminated by the body). This can vary from person to person, however, the average person will eliminate 15ml of alcohol per hour. Heavy drinkers may have more active livers and can therefor eliminate more alcohol than average. People with liver disease may have less active livers and will therefor eliminate alcohol slower. Medication and the amount of food in the stomach can also have an effect on the rate at which alcohol is absorbed into the body and subsequently eliminated. Younger people also tend to metabolise alcohol more quickly than older people.

[ady1]

yes id give him back his licence no problem , he was only doing what we all do which is have a few social pints after a hard weeks work , he was just unlucky enough to get stopped by coppers who should be doing something usefull like catching real criminals rather than preying on hard working truck drivers having a pint or two.
and ROG , were in the real world here , and in that world some can hold there beer, some cant , im a good boy now[proved by the breath test the other week] , but i could tip down pint after pint of cider and it had no effect , wheras some blokes are on there knees after a one or two, fact.

[rog]

There does seem to be a differing of opinion between experts on alcohol absorbtion and effect levels.

I suppose the only thing they do agree on is - Don’t drink if driving or going to drive within 12 hours of the last drink.
I think the last bit about 12 hours would depend on the amount but seems to be a safe timespan.

[shortfatbaldbloke]

ROG:
I remember another post on this site about speeding where a lot of members commented that the driver obviously was not learning from their errors as they kept getting speeding fines - is this any different

I was one of the drivers with the speeding fines Rog, In my opinion it is quite different, I never set out to speed but was careless enough to end up doing so, someone who is DUI must know they are DUI and set out to DUI as soon as they get in that drivers seat…

I know both offences can end in the same way but you get a three year ban for a 2nd DUI nothing like it for a 2nd speeding, 6 months for TT99.

I know someone that has 2 Drink driving on his licence but has an HGV licence.

I think it’s a case of different TC’S in different areas being more choosey.

I’m Not judging anyone but I would never drink and drive.

[bigandy]

the general concencus is one hour for one unit to be out of the system.

[rog]

ady1:
and ROG , were in the real world here , and in that world some can hold there beer, some cant , im a good boy now[proved by the breath test the other week] , but i could tip down pint after pint of cider and it had no effect , wheras some blokes are on there knees after a one or two, fact.

would you care to see if an intoximeter agreed with you as that is the only way to prove that the machine would agree with your statement.
There is a difference, as I pointed out earlier, between the effect it has on a person and what will be determined by an intoximeter machine.

I saw one of those traffic cop programmes where one person was over 5 times the legal limit but seemed stone cold sober in all other respects - have also seen where one person has had 2 pints, again was over the limit, but seemed smashed out of their head.

The only way to do a true test between the two would be to put them both in a driving simulator and actually see what effect it had on their respective driving abilities

[bigandy]

ROG:

ady1:
and ROG , were in the real world here , and in that world some can hold there beer, some cant , im a good boy now[proved by the breath test the other week] , but i could tip down pint after pint of cider and it had no effect , wheras some blokes are on there knees after a one or two, fact.

would you care to see if an intoximeter agreed with you as that is the only way to prove that the machine would agree with your statement.
There is a difference, as I pointed out earlier, between the effect it has on a person and what will be determined by an intoximeter machine.

I saw one of those traffic cop programmes where one person was over 5 times the legal limit but seemed stone cold sober in all other respects - have also seen where one person has had 2 pints, again was over the limit, but seemed smashed out of their head.

The only way to do a true test between the two would be to put them both in a driving simulator and actually see what effect it had on their respective driving abilities

which is why they get tested again at the police station with more accurate equipment.in my opinion there should be a zero tolerance to drinking and driving.

[billybigrig]

Coincidentally …

telegraph.co.uk/motoring/new … e-cut.html

Mick Giannasi, Britain’s top traffic policeman, calls for drink drive limit to be cut

[jan_m]

Sorry . almost all of you just looking for an excuse to drink or to say “there is nothing wrong”. Stupid questions: how much I can, what is metabolism, halford testers? bla bla bla.
If YOU ARE professional driver then YOU should NOT to drink day before your work.
That means professional driver not an average drunk jeanny after party going home with friends in small micra.

In canada is zero tolerance - the same should be in Europe.
If the gay has been banned twice for DD then he should not even apply for HGV license, Too risky to give him 44tonner.

[garnerlives]

jan_m:
If the gay has been banned twice for DD then he should not even apply for HGV license, Too risky to give him 44tonner.

Don’t bring being queer into it

[alamcculloch]

Maybe if the lad was a boozed up youth and got his DDs.Now he may be a family man with responsibilities and keeping himself in order.I would let him have the licence if and only if he can prove fundamental change has taken place.

[thetaff]

garnerlives:

jan_m:
If the gay has been banned twice for DD then he should not even apply for HGV license, Too risky to give him 44tonner.

Don’t bring being queer into it

Thats what i thought his ■■■■■■ preference has nothing to do with the fact he likes a drop of the hard stuff!!!

[cruise_control]

Thetaff:

garnerlives:

jan_m:
If the gay has been banned twice for DD then he should not even apply for HGV license, Too risky to give him 44tonner.

Don’t bring being queer into it

Thats what i thought his ■■■■■■ preference has nothing to do with the fact he likes a drop of the hard stuff!!!

I bet he likes a stiff drink after a hard day’s work

yeah yeah i know…