Right… if you drive part of the day under domestic rules, and part under EU rules… can you exceed the domestic duty time of 11 hours?
Or am I mis reading totally?
Jenson Button:
Right… if you drive part of the day under domestic rules, and part under EU rules… can you exceed the domestic duty time of 11 hours?
- Can you drive under domestic rules 10 hours a day for as many days as you want, as domestic rules and WTR don’t work together?
Or am I mis reading totally?
There was a big discussion thread on this very issue
The general consensus among VOSA is that the EU regs takes preference on this issue and the reason given was that the old 1968 domestic regs have not been updated for the modern era
There is nothing written officially so you would be entirely at the opinion of the official if it was noticed but as far as I know there has never been a problem with a driver exceeding the 11 hour duty limit when mixing regs in the same shift
Right… if you drive part of the day under domestic rules, and part under EU rules… can you exceed the domestic duty time of 11 hours?
Driving limits
GB domestic limit (a maximum of 10 hours of driving a day) must always be obeyed. But at any time
when you are actually driving under the EU rules you must obey all the rules on EU driving limits.Other duty limits
GB domestic limit (i.e. no more than 11 hours on duty) must always be obeyed. But when working under EU rules you must also obey all the rules on breaks, daily rest (only on those days when actually driving) and weekly rest.
Rest periods and breaks
Again, you must always obey the EU rules on rest periods and breaks on days and weeks in which driving in scope of EU rules is carried out.
Based on this above i would say no.
A weekly rest period is not required in a fixed week where a driver does not drive under EU rules.
Where a driver works under EU rules in one week and under GB domestic rules in the following week, the driver may take either a regular or a reduced weekly rest in the first week. If the driver takes a reduced weekly rest, compensation will be required by the end of the third week following the week in question. If this working pattern continues, the driver may take either a regular or reduced weekly rest period every other week.
- Can you drive under domestic rules 10 hours a day for as many days as you want, as domestic rules and WTR don’t work together?
you can drive for 10 hours in a 24 hour period from max ( Day: The day is the 24-hour period beginning with the start of duty time.)
so based on that if you start at 6 am you can driver 10 hours up to 6am next day the clock does not reset because you had a rest as it does in EU, there is no weekly rest requirement in domestic drivers hours except for safety reasons you would want one.
Jenson Button:
Right… if you drive part of the day under domestic rules, and part under EU rules… can you exceed the domestic duty time of 11 hours?
No you cannot legally exceed the maximum domestic duty time of 11 hours.
Page 30 - Rules on Drivers Hours and Tachographs
Jenson Button:
2. Can you drive under domestic rules 10 hours a day for as many days as you want, as domestic rules and WTR don’t work together?
There is no compulsory weekly rest period for domestic regulations however under the Working Time Regulations 1998 you are entitled to a period of at-least 24 hours rest in each 7 day period.
ROG:
There was a big discussion thread on this very issueThe general consensus among VOSA is that the EU regs takes preference on this issue and the reason given was that the old 1968 domestic regs have not been updated for the modern era
There is nothing written officially so you would be entirely at the opinion of the official if it was noticed but as far as I know there has never been a problem with a driver exceeding the 11 hour duty limit when mixing regs in the same shift
Could you give us a link to any information that suggests that VOSA think the domestic duty limit can be ignored ?
There own booklet GV262 says differently.
GB domestic limit (i.e. no more than 11 hours on duty) must always be obeyed. But when working under EU rules you must also obey all the rules on breaks, daily rest (only on those days when actually driving) and weekly rest.
tachograph:
ROG:
There was a big discussion thread on this very issueThe general consensus among VOSA is that the EU regs takes preference on this issue and the reason given was that the old 1968 domestic regs have not been updated for the modern era
There is nothing written officially so you would be entirely at the opinion of the official if it was noticed but as far as I know there has never been a problem with a driver exceeding the 11 hour duty limit when mixing regs in the same shift
Could you give us a link to any information that suggests that VOSA think the domestic duty limit can be ignored ?
There own booklet GV262 says differently.
GB domestic limit (i.e. no more than 11 hours on duty) must always be obeyed. But when working under EU rules you must also obey all the rules on breaks, daily rest (only on those days when actually driving) and weekly rest.
I specifically stated that it was UNWRITTEN and the only way for anyone to confirm what I said is for them to ask many VOSA officials for their VIEWPOINT on this issue
ROG:
tachograph:
ROG:
There was a big discussion thread on this very issueThe general consensus among VOSA is that the EU regs takes preference on this issue and the reason given was that the old 1968 domestic regs have not been updated for the modern era
There is nothing written officially so you would be entirely at the opinion of the official if it was noticed but as far as I know there has never been a problem with a driver exceeding the 11 hour duty limit when mixing regs in the same shift
Could you give us a link to any information that suggests that VOSA think the domestic duty limit can be ignored ?
There own booklet GV262 says differently.
GB domestic limit (i.e. no more than 11 hours on duty) must always be obeyed. But when working under EU rules you must also obey all the rules on breaks, daily rest (only on those days when actually driving) and weekly rest.
I specifically stated that it was UNWRITTEN and the only way for anyone to confirm what I said is for them to ask many VOSA officials for their VIEWPOINT on this issue
But you also suggested that it’s “The general consensus among VOSA”, unless you know a lot of VOSA people I’m curious to know how you would know this, especially as their own booklet gv262 says that the domestic duty limit must be obeyed (so it is WRITTEN) which kind of suggests that it’s not the general consensus of VOSA at-all 
tachograph:
But you also suggested that it’s “The general consensus among VOSA”, unless you know a lot of VOSA people I’m curious to know how you would know this, especially as their own booklet gv262 says that the domestic duty limit must be obeyed (so it is WRITTEN) which kind of suggests that it’s not the general consensus of VOSA at-all
Knowing one or two who know many more got me to that answer - those two gave me the general consensus from their workmates on this issue
Its all word of mouth without anything official
all we can go on is whether anyone has ever been done for it
ROG:
Jenson Button:
Right… if you drive part of the day under domestic rules, and part under EU rules… can you exceed the domestic duty time of 11 hours?
- Can you drive under domestic rules 10 hours a day for as many days as you want, as domestic rules and WTR don’t work together?
Or am I mis reading totally?
There was a big discussion thread on this very issue
The general consensus among VOSA is that the EU regs takes preference on this issue and the reason given was that the old 1968 domestic regs have not been updated for the modern era
There is nothing written officially so you would be entirely at the opinion of the official if it was noticed but as far as I know there has never been a problem with a driver exceeding the 11 hour duty limit when mixing regs in the same shift
I was doing mixed driving few years back and we all were told by TM that the domestic duty limit took president and there was told this by vosa in a meeting
delboytwo:
I was doing mixed driving few years back and we all were told by TM that the domestic duty limit took president and there was told this by vosa in a meeting
I believe you DEL - it seems that there is a difference in opinion within the authorities
ROG:
delboytwo:
I was doing mixed driving few years back and we all were told by TM that the domestic duty limit took president and there was told this by vosa in a meetingI believe you DEL - it seems that there is a difference in opinion within the authorities
the trouble is Rog you will never get a definite answer only the get out as there all same to say.
The Department cannot give an authoritative interpretation of the law; that is a matter for the courts. Enforcement of road traffic law is an operational matter for individual Chief Police Officers and their officers can issue verbal warnings, fixed penalty notices or report the motorist for formal prosecution
delboytwo:
ROG:
delboytwo:
I was doing mixed driving few years back and we all were told by TM that the domestic duty limit took president and there was told this by vosa in a meetingI believe you DEL - it seems that there is a difference in opinion within the authorities
the trouble is Rog you will never get a definite answer only the get out as there all same to say.
Unless you know of some regulation that says otherwise then the definitive answer has to be that legally you should comply with both sets of regulations.
Failing any legal document that says you can ignore one or the other sets of regulations on mixed days then the answer has to be that legally you can’t.
What you can or cannot get away with as far as the authorities are concerned is another story, and I would say is the only place for confusion in this discussion.
But others may disagree, who knows 
The question has to be, would you want to risk being penalised if you got stopped by a VOSA bod who insisted on sticking strictly to the law, or prefer to stick to the regulations as they’re written ?
It should be noted that if question 2 in the opening post is also about mixing the regulations, then in a week where you drive to EU regulations even for a short time you should comply with the weekly rest requirement even if the rest of the week is on domestic regulations.
tachograph:
It should be noted that if question 2 in the opening post is also about mixing the regulations, then in a week where you drive to EU regulations even for a short time you should comply with the weekly rest requirement even if the rest of the week is on domestic regulations.
I would thing that if you do mixed as I have we were told that the driver hours would follow the EU regs and we have to have rests but if were drove using both regs on same day the duty would be 11 hours and that had to be obeyed, and there would be a rest of more, as it was very rare to go over a 12 hour day anyway, so days it would be 6 hours in the van and then a few hours in the truck.
Using the old 1968 domestic reg laws is like using the laws on cycling on pavements - they were good at the time but in todays society there are unapropriate so get ignored - that seems to be the way they are seen by the authorities with common sense
simply my observations on these issues
So, sorry if I keep asking in different ways but it takes me ages to finally get something… so
If i drive under dom rules in the morning - say for 6 hours - I then go on to EU regs to drive in the afternoon… I can count the 6 hours as “other work”, but even though I could then drive for as many hours as i can get in on my “EU duty” so this could be an overall total of a 13 hour or a 15 hour day depending what rests I had already taken, but I am still limited by the 11 hours duty time■■?.. BUT if i drive for 4 hours under EU rules in a morning and then go onto Dom rules for the rest of the day, my 4 hours counts towards the 10 hours driving and the 11 hours duty takes precident?
Jenson Button:
So, sorry if I keep asking in different ways but it takes me ages to finally get something… soIf i drive under dom rules in the morning - say for 6 hours - I then go on to EU regs to drive in the afternoon… I can count the 6 hours as “other work”, but even though I could then drive for as many hours as i can get in on my “EU duty” so this could be an overall total of a 13 hour or a 15 hour day depending what rests I had already taken, but I am still limited by the 11 hours duty time■■?.. BUT if i drive for 4 hours under EU rules in a morning and then go onto Dom rules for the rest of the day, my 4 hours counts towards the 10 hours driving and the 11 hours duty takes precident?
Domestic driving counts as other work for the EU regulations but EU driving counts as driving for the domestic regulations.
So if you do 6 hours driving in the morning under domestic regulations, then in the afternoon you can only do 4 hours driving under EU regulations, this is because the EU driving will count as driving for the domestic regulations.
The fact that you change regulations at say mid-day does not mean that you can now forget the domestic regulations, it’s the same working day so the driving in the afternoon still counts for the domestic regulations even though they’re done under EU regulations.
You should also note that as Del said earlier the driving time for domestic regulations is calculated over a 24 hour period which does not reset when you start a new shift like the EU regulations do.
If you mix domestic regulations and EU regulations in the same working day you are limited to an 11 hour duty period.
To be honest rather than mixing the regulations in the same day, if the vehicle you’re doing the domestic driving in is in-scope of EU regulations you would normally be better off sticking to EU regulations all day.
Given that the EU regulations are for the most part more restrictive than domestic regulations I doubt anyone would bother even if they had a way of knowing.
If something can come under domestic regs does the driver have to use them or does the driver have the choice of which regs to use ?
An interesting senario …
Driver is under EU regs from the start of the shift but has to drop the truck off at the dealers for service/repair near the end of the shift
The dealer lends the driver a van of 3.5 tonnes MAM so he can go to base which is abut 30 mins away
When the driver drops off the truck he has so far completed a shift of 9 hours driving and 3 hours other work making a total of 12 hours working time with a total shift timme of 13.5 hours so far
If he has a 9+ driving day under EU regs he can drive a LGV back to the yard because he will have both driving and work time left to use
Does the van come under domestic regs?
If yes, can he drive the van back to the yard?
If yes for domestic regs which would also be a yes for the driving time then what about the duty/work time ? - are we saying that he cannot do any domestic work because he has already done 12 hours work time ?
I can see why VOSA are tending to ignore this issue because it does not make sense
ROG:
An interesting senario …Driver is under EU regs from the start of the shift but has to drop the truck off at the dealers for service/repair near the end of the shift
The dealer lends the driver a van of 3.5 tonnes MAM so he can go to base which is abut 30 mins away
When the driver drops off the truck he has so far completed a shift of 9 hours driving and 3 hours other work making a total of 12 hours working time with a total shift timme of 13.5 hours so far
If he has a 9+ driving day under EU regs he can drive a LGV back to the yard because he will have both driving and work time left to use
Does the van come under domestic regs?
If yes, can he drive the van back to the yard?If yes for domestic regs which would also be a yes for the driving time then what about the duty/work time ? - are we saying that he cannot do any domestic work because he has already done 12 hours work time ?
I can see why VOSA are tending to ignore this issue because it does not make sense
Rog the van does not come under domstic regutions it come under other work
- Any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle which falls
outside the scope of this Regulation to or from a vehicle
which falls within the scope of this Regulation, which is not at
the driver’s home or at the employer’s operational centre
where the driver is normally based, shall count as other work.
Are you certain DEL ?
What comes under domestic regs in regards to vehicles under 3.5 tonnes ?
cars
small car derived vans
transit type vans
■■?