What comes under domestic regs in regards to vehicles under 3.5 tonnes ?
cars
small car derived vans
transit type vans
■■?
lets see
Any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle which falls
outside the scope of this Regulation to or from a vehicle
which falls within the scope of this Regulation, which is not at
the driver’s home or at the employer’s operational centre
where the driver is normally based, shall count as other work.
the bit in red is the van is it not as it does not have to use EU regs.
the bit in blue it the work part
Rog the driver does not use domestic regs at all in his job the van in this case is a form of transport to get home it could even be a car, and also hes only using the van for the purpose of traveling home not goods carrying.
Driver is under EU regs from the start of the shift but has to drop the truck off at the dealers for service/repair near the end of the shift
The dealer lends the driver a van of 3.5 tonnes MAM so he can go to base which is abut 30 mins away
When the driver drops off the truck he has so far completed a shift of 9 hours driving and 3 hours other work making a total of 12 hours working time with a total shift timme of 13.5 hours so far
If he has a 9+ driving day under EU regs he can drive a LGV back to the yard because he will have both driving and work time left to use
Does the van come under domestic regs?
If yes, can he drive the van back to the yard?
If yes for domestic regs which would also be a yes for the driving time then what about the duty/work time ? - are we saying that he cannot do any domestic work because he has already done 12 hours work time ?
I can see why VOSA are tending to ignore this issue because it does not make sense
Rog the van does not come under domstic regutions it come under other work
Correct, the van driving will for all intent and purpose be exempt from the domestic regulations and will only be required to be recorded as other work for the EU regulations.
The GB domestic rules, as contained in the Transport Act 1968, apply to most goods vehicles that are exempt from the EU rules.
that is from GV 262-03
If tha van is a goods vehicle then it certainly fits the criteria
his he using the van for the carrying of good in the line of a business, and the said van does not belong to him there have lent it to the firm so a driver can get home
I don’t believe anyone will find common ground and agree on the final outcome.
The 2 sets of rules simply do not work together. They contradict each other. I believe the answer is to make your own decision and operate that way keeping accurate records until someone in authority says otherwise. As long as records are maintained and it is clear you made a conscious decision and can explain why that decision was made I can’t see there being a problem.
Lets look at a scenario. I drive 5 hours in a 3.5t van. At this point no records required. I now get in a 7.5t vehicle and manually enter 5 hours of work. I cannot possibly enter 5 hours of driving so the digi tacho just sees work. At this point I have done nothing wrong.
I now seem to have two choices of which none are technically correct.
1. Ignore the 5 hours van driving and continue working under EU rules as though I just completed 5 hours of other work (which I have). if stopped by VOSA they will see 5 hours of work entered manually. Would they ask what this was■■? I don’t know. Even if they did ask - at that point i may not have exceeded any limits.
2. I consider the 5 hours van driving counts towards my EU driving limit (even though recorded as other work on my manual entry) and therefore restrict my driving of the 7.5t to only a further 5 hours. I also observe all EU rules for rest - and of course the RT WTD rules.
Of course with both 1 and 2 above there are potential issues of the 11 hour duty limit that VOSA say must be obeyed on mixed activity days. Personally I would think VOSA would be OK with my option 2. This would mean I have not exceeded a safe amount of hours for my driving (across both vehicles) but have stuck to the EU rules for daily rest. This seems safe to me.
However - above is only my opinion and it may of course differ from others.
As a matter of interest I have asked the FTA this questions three times. The answers were different on all three ocassions. Each time I then presented my alternative answer I got a “Ah, well yes but I think it means this”. In other words nobody can make sense of it.
So - ultimatley I suppose to play it safe, on a day of mixed activities stick to 10 hours driving (including driving both vehicles) and a total of 11 hours duty. can’t go wrong then.
Any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle which falls
outside the scope of this Regulation to or from a vehicle
which falls within the scope of this Regulation, which is not at
the driver’s home or at the employer’s operational centre
where the driver is normally based, shall count as other work.
The above is a very interesting point that I had not picked up on when reading the various documents. Again the 2 sets of rules clash. The extract above says one thing and the domestic rules contradict it.
I like the rules above. This solves many problems for drivers being collected when out of driving time but not duty. They can simply drive the van and apparent;ly do not then need to comply with the domestic limits. I had previously advisede companies they could let the driver drive a 3.5t van back but must watch the 10 hour domestic driving limit.
shep532:
3. Any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle which falls
outside the scope of this Regulation to or from a vehicle
which falls within the scope of this Regulation, which is not at
the driver’s home or at the employer’s operational centre
where the driver is normally based, shall count as other work.
The above is a very interesting point that I had not picked up on when reading the various documents. Again the 2 sets of rules clash. The extract above says one thing and the domestic rules contradict it.
I like the rules above. This solves many problems for drivers being collected when out of driving time but not duty. They can simply drive the van and apparent;ly do not then need to comply with the domestic limits. I had previously advisede companies they could let the driver drive a 3.5t van back but must watch the 10 hour domestic driving limit.
Now I just don’t know what the answer is!
This is how I see this
The vehicle that used is out of scope therefor not classed as driving its other work, countable for duty time under EU regulations, if it was not there would count it as driving if driving was done.
As the driver is working EU regs and he all intended purposes as finish his shift at the garage ( the garage is not his home nor operating centre were he is normally based )he still as to get home the van as been give for the driver to use and come back to collect his truck so the journey home and back to the garage forms part of is working day under EU regs as the drive to and from the garage is other work.