If I start my working week driving a commercial vehicle fitted with a tacho am I correct in thinking that if I then drive a standard size Sprinter/Transit van on one of the other days of the same week I have to obey tacho laws even though there is no real way of recording my work. Seem to remember reading about it a while back but cant remember. Or do I have to revert to domestic hours ?
I know you can probably get away with obeying no hours laws while driving a van but could do with knowing what the ‘Official’ line is.
It says ERF not RAF:
If I start my working week driving a commercial vehicle fitted with a tacho am I correct in thinking that if I then drive a standard size Sprinter/Transit van on one of the other days of the same week I have to obey tacho laws even though there is no real way of recording my work. Seem to remember reading about it a while back but cant remember. Or do I have to revert to domestic hours ?
I know you can probably get away with obeying no hours laws while driving a van but could do with knowing what the ‘Official’ line is.
Same employer? - Either way, the van driving is other work
Few rules when doing two jobs and one of them comes under EU regs -
A ‘week’ is mon 0000 to sun 2400
In any week where you come under EU regs your work in the other job must be recorded
That other work can be recorded on a digi tacho, seperate printouts or on seperate analogue charts - one for each day worked
Each recorded work day must contain your name, date, start & finish time.
You do not need to record anything if you do not come under EU regs in that week
If the other work is for the same employer then recording the breaks or POA during the day should also be recorded as above
I think I remember that correctly…
ROG, we have a mixed fleet of vans and trucks and I have always been on the artics, every now and then I will nip out and do a local in the van. Recently though due to lack of work some of the drops normally done on a multi-drop artic are being done by the lads on the vans, we have more vans than drivers so occasionally we (hgv drivers) will be asked to go out in a van. Normally I will only be local but tomorrow I’m being given 2 drops that (at a guess) will take 10-11 hours driving, so was wondering about max driving etc . Have I a max 15 hr day (inc WTD) or have I a limit on driving aswell ?
Thanks for your last post
The driving time in the van does not count as driving but as other work and you stil come under the RT(WTD)R for mobile workers and not the normal WTD
The REST for the EU driver regs still needs to be adhered to so a minimum 9 hour reduced daily rest ok if you have one available
That other work can be recorded on a digi tacho, seperate printouts or on seperate analogue charts - one for each day worked
Each recorded work day must contain your name, date, start & finish time as well as any breaks or POA you had in that van driving day
I’m fairly sure I have this correct but if not a GURU will say so
cant say ive ever recorded for driving a van,
cause some weeks i could start in a truck, next day be in a van for another employer, then could be in a shunter the next day.
i still stick to the 5 day/6 day week thing though.
Cheers ROG, just out of curiosity, if I drive the van from the start of my working week (without going near an HGV) would I stick to domestic regs ?
It says ERF not RAF:
Cheers ROG, just out of curiosity, if I drive the van from the start of my working week (without going near an HGV) would I stick to domestic regs ?
I would say yes but double check with a GURU - I also think that all that time would need to be recorded on a weekly record sheet VOSA GUIDE - page 46 …
What is a ‘Commercial Traveller’ ? (they are exempt)
How would anyone Know? If it aint got a recording device in it why would you want to complicate your life by making a record of driving?
This Post highlights how silly the job as become, and in my opinion more dangerous when a driver has to worry about wether he is breaking some law or another, because he as gone from an HGV to a small van.
The one word which makes it almost impossible to keep to the letter of the law is,EXCEPT. Make it one law ,no exceptions for anything,
and make the tacho purely as a guide to a days work.I think that if drivers were to use discretion on taking breaks when they needed them, rather than when some suit in westminster tells them to, there would be less accidents.
rocky 7:
.I think that if drivers were to use discretion on taking breaks when they needed them, rather than when some suit in westminster tells them to, there would be less accidents.
Did you mean some suit in the EU parliament 
wire:
How would anyone Know? If it aint got a recording device in it why would you want to complicate your life by making a record of driving?
thats the way i see it, plus if i had to manually input all my other work on my digi card the next time i got in a truck id be there for about 6 billion years and end up pulling a shotgun out to the tacho unit.
wire:
How would anyone Know? If it aint got a recording device in it why would you want to complicate your life by making a record of driving?
Why would you need to make a record of the driving■■?
Van (under 3.5 tonnes) driving does not count as driving time for the EU regs
wire:
How would anyone Know? If it aint got a recording device in it why would you want to complicate your life by making a record of driving?
If I’m in a truck Monday , Tuesday then a van Wednesday, then get pulled by the Feds on Thursday in my truck and have to show the VOSA/Old Bill current weeks charts I will get done for not having a record of my Wednesday work/rest.
It says ERF not RAF:
wire:
How would anyone Know? If it aint got a recording device in it why would you want to complicate your life by making a record of driving?If I’m in a truck Monday , Tuesday then a van Wednesday, then get pulled by the Feds on Thursday in my truck and have to show the VOSA/Old Bill current weeks charts I will get done for not having a record of my Wednesday work/rest.
Like a jigsaw, if you don’t have all the bits when required the problems can start. Failing to record is an offence. Maybe one day your time sheets will be required by the feds etc. As highlighted then it also covers the driver in that they still have a maximum limit for work.
rocky 7:
This Post highlights how silly the job as become, and in my opinion more dangerous when a driver has to worry about wether he is breaking some law or another, because he as gone from an HGV to a small van.
The one word which makes it almost impossible to keep to the letter of the law is,EXCEPT. Make it one law ,no exceptions for anything,
and make the tacho purely as a guide to a days work.I think that if drivers were to use discretion on taking breaks when they needed them, rather than when some suit in westminster tells them to, there would be less accidents.
The first bit of your post I’m tempted to agree with in principle, although realistically it’s down to knowing the law, and in this instance it’s pretty clear-cut. The second bit… well, you might be able to use discretion but I’d bet a week’s wages your boss wouldn’t if the load was late.
Tachos are NOT your enemy… they might be a PITA but at the end of the day they exist to stop stupid drivers and hauliers taking unnecessary risks. They’ve been around now for long enough and they’re not going to go away no matter how much we wish for it. Learn to work with them not against them, it’s a lot easier. 
wire:
How would anyone Know? If it aint got a recording device in it why would you want to complicate your life by making a record of driving?
It says ERF not RAF:
If I’m in a truck Monday , Tuesday then a van Wednesday, then get pulled by the Feds on Thursday in my truck and have to show the VOSA/Old Bill current weeks charts I will get done for not having a record of my Wednesday work/rest.
They might ask what you did on Wednesday and depending on your answer they will either believe it was (1)rest or they will (2)check further - easy to do.
If (2) and you lied then have your cheque book ready
gogzy:
wire:
How would anyone Know? If it aint got a recording device in it why would you want to complicate your life by making a record of driving?thats the way i see it, plus if i had to manually input all my other work on my digi card the next time i got in a truck id be there for about 6 billion years and end up pulling a shotgun out to the tacho unit.
yeah i know mate but you still have to record it, as if you get pulled and vosa see your records and see some days are missing and you say in the yard/driving a van you still have to record the other work for the wtd?? didnt some guy on here get busted for that very thing and he got parked up for 45 hours because he didnt record his van driving work even though he only drove for 4 hours.
when im loading in the yard and not out in the truck i always fill out a manual tacho on the back with a line showing other work and when i took my 30 min break. that way your covered if vosa check your clock in/clock outs.
pain in the arse but one day you might come to regret it. 
especially now if you ever enter humberside…
It says ERF not RAF:
What is a ‘Commercial Traveller’ ? (they are exempt)
A Commercial Traveller is an old fashioned description of Travelling Salesman,Sales Rep and no doubt there’s a new buzz word these days,oh yes Sales Executive satisfies their egos.
Deathstar:
It says ERF not RAF:
What is a ‘Commercial Traveller’ ? (they are exempt)A Commercial Traveller is an old fashioned description of Travelling Salesman,Sales Rep and no doubt there’s a new buzz word these days,oh yes Sales Executive satisfies their egos.
ahhh so if you drive a flat bed/box body extended (somewhat 
) mondeo you are then exempt from tacho laws?? 