I’ m no an expert on this, but we run a mixed fleet from vans to artics via anything in between and what we do is beside the tacho and digi printout/records is keep a sheet that records work (bit like a timesheet) with colums for driving/POA/work/ferry/total hours. That way, work done in a van gets recorded as well. Sounds complicated but it only takes 10 minutes to fill in. I’ve had a full VOSA turn out on tacho hours and they had no problem with the way we recorded the info, so that’ll do for me.
We also double it up and use it for the WTD record…no idea what they will say!
I was told at the start of the year that driving a van you can only work 12 hours but can drive as much as you like as long as you have ‘adequate breaks’ but this was during my cpc course
redear:
I was told at the start of the year that driving a van you can only work 12 hours but can drive as much as you like as long as you have ‘adequate breaks’ but this was during my cpc course
Your dcpc trainer has obviously not read this - VOSA GUIDE - pages 24 & 25
wire:
How would anyone Know? If it aint got a recording device in it why would you want to complicate your life by making a record of driving?
thats the way i see it, plus if i had to manually input all my other work on my digi card the next time i got in a truck id be there for about 6 billion years and end up pulling a shotgun out to the tacho unit.
It says ERF not RAF:
What is a ‘Commercial Traveller’ ? (they are exempt)
A Commercial Traveller is an old fashioned description of Travelling Salesman,Sales Rep and no doubt there’s a new buzz word these days,oh yes Sales Executive satisfies their egos.
This must affect the CPC too.
Where does a travelling salesman fit in when he has to use a tacho and a palmtop computer. Is a Snap On salesman who is a finance rep, a tool salesman and a driver affected, when the exemptions allow a driver to use a vehicle without a CPC when his main job is not driving.
How about the pub crisp salesman or the Warburtons bread man who is taking orders on his rounds
rocky 7:
This Post highlights how silly the job as become, and in my opinion more dangerous when a driver has to worry about wether he is breaking some law or another, because he as gone from an HGV to a small van.
The one word which makes it almost impossible to keep to the letter of the law is,EXCEPT. Make it one law ,no exceptions for anything,
and make the tacho purely as a guide to a days work.I think that if drivers were to use discretion on taking breaks when they needed them, rather than when some suit in westminster tells them to, there would be less accidents.
The first bit of your post I’m tempted to agree with in principle, although realistically it’s down to knowing the law, and in this instance it’s pretty clear-cut. The second bit… well, you might be able to use discretion but I’d bet a week’s wages your boss wouldn’t if the load was late.
Tachos are NOT your enemy… they might be a PITA but at the end of the day they exist to stop stupid drivers and hauliers taking unnecessary risks. They’ve been around now for long enough and they’re not going to go away no matter how much we wish for it. Learn to work with them not against them, it’s a lot easier.
I was driving long before tachios where invented, Ok there was less traffic on the road but there where no limiters, but we took our breaks when we needed them and not when we were told we had to.Unfortunately the body does not comply with the tacho clock, tiredness comes on when its ready, not after 4.5 hours, and sometimes 15 minutes will do and sometimes you need an hour or more to get refreshed.
The working day was always a little hapazard by todays standards , but the job always got done and a a good nights rest was always had, even across the seats
rocky 7:
This Post highlights how silly the job as become, and in my opinion more dangerous when a driver has to worry about wether he is breaking some law or another, because he as gone from an HGV to a small van.
The one word which makes it almost impossible to keep to the letter of the law is,EXCEPT. Make it one law ,no exceptions for anything,
and make the tacho purely as a guide to a days work.I think that if drivers were to use discretion on taking breaks when they needed them, rather than when some suit in westminster tells them to, there would be less accidents.
The first bit of your post I’m tempted to agree with in principle, although realistically it’s down to knowing the law, and in this instance it’s pretty clear-cut. The second bit… well, you might be able to use discretion but I’d bet a week’s wages your boss wouldn’t if the load was late.
Tachos are NOT your enemy… they might be a PITA but at the end of the day they exist to stop stupid drivers and hauliers taking unnecessary risks. They’ve been around now for long enough and they’re not going to go away no matter how much we wish for it. Learn to work with them not against them, it’s a lot easier.
I was driving long before tachios where invented, Ok there was less traffic on the road but there where no limiters, but we took our breaks when we needed them and not when we were told we had to.Unfortunately the body does not comply with the tacho clock, tiredness comes on when its ready, not after 4.5 hours, and sometimes 15 minutes will do and sometimes you need an hour or more to get refreshed.
The working day was always a little hapazard by todays standards , but the job always got done and a a good nights rest was always had, even across the seats
rocky 7:
This Post highlights how silly the job as become, and in my opinion more dangerous when a driver has to worry about wether he is breaking some law or another, because he as gone from an HGV to a small van.
The one word which makes it almost impossible to keep to the letter of the law is,EXCEPT. Make it one law ,no exceptions for anything,
and make the tacho purely as a guide to a days work.I think that if drivers were to use discretion on taking breaks when they needed them, rather than when some suit in westminster tells them to, there would be less accidents.
The first bit of your post I’m tempted to agree with in principle, although realistically it’s down to knowing the law, and in this instance it’s pretty clear-cut. The second bit… well, you might be able to use discretion but I’d bet a week’s wages your boss wouldn’t if the load was late.
Tachos are NOT your enemy… they might be a PITA but at the end of the day they exist to stop stupid drivers and hauliers taking unnecessary risks. They’ve been around now for long enough and they’re not going to go away no matter how much we wish for it. Learn to work with them not against them, it’s a lot easier.
… even across the seats
you still could if you wanted to.
as for tacho laws and tiredness, maybe but remember they are there for fair competition too.
rocky 7:
I was driving long before tachios where invented, Ok there was less traffic on the road but there where no limiters, but we took our breaks when we needed them and not when we were told we had to.Unfortunately the body does not comply with the tacho clock, tiredness comes on when its ready, not after 4.5 hours, and sometimes 15 minutes will do and sometimes you need an hour or more to get refreshed.
The working day was always a little hapazard by todays standards , but the job always got done and a a good nights rest was always had, even across the seats
And of course the trains all ran on time as well!
It’s before my day of course, but it was also before the days when we had JIT delivery systems, supermarkets in every town, and the only guaranteed next day delivery was a first class letter. If you saw a lorry on the road with foreign livery he’d driven down from Scotland!
I did do some driving in my younger days when I was out all week kipping across the seats in a day-cab Leyland Chieftain. I might have slept well but that was because I was physically exhausted, not because I was warm and comfortable.
My view has always been that tachographs are there to protect drivers from greedy and stupid operators, and occasionally to protect greedy and stupid drivers from themselves.
gogzy:
what if i was in a van one week and the next week i was in a truck would i need to input the data on my digi?
You could, though there is no requirement in the rules to record if in a week 0000 mon to 2359 sun you dont do any EU work. You only need to record it in a week where you carry out EU work.
EG to keep it simple if you work mon-fri, this week you were in a transit and next week mon tues the same but wed on a tacho, you are only required to have records for mon / tues next week with you and anything falling within the last 28 days which you did in the weeks before. Does that help? I can’t ever seem to simplify it!!!
gogzy:
what if i was in a van one week and the next week i was in a truck would i need to input the data on my digi?
You could, though there is no requirement in the rules to record if in a week 0000 mon to 2359 sun you dont do any EU work. You only need to record it in a week where you carry out EU work.
EG to keep it simple if you work mon-fri, this week you were in a transit and next week mon tues the same but wed on a tacho, you are only required to have records for mon / tues next week with you and anything falling within the last 28 days which you did in the weeks before. Does that help? I can’t ever seem to simplify it!!!
This is one where I cannot be sure of because if it is for the same employer that you drive LGVs for then it might be that all the van work for that week where you did not come under EU regs will need to be recorded for the RT(WTD)R as you are still classed as a mobile worker
Van work for a seperate employer working under the normal WTD which can be opted out of would be a different issue IMO
I have not got my head around this issue so maybe a GURU can assist ■■?
you are employed as an hgv driver
if you drive under eu rules on any day then for that week you must adhere to tacho rules for the entire week ie daily rest and weekly rest
if you drive a van under 3.5 tonnes for a whole week then you are not under eu regs but you are still under working time regs
if you drive a van for one day in a fixed week there is no rule under British regs to hold a tacho but vosa would be looking for an explanation as to what you were doing that day
if you run in France then there is a requirement to carry a blank tacho with manual entries on the back for the days that you do not drive an hgv
my advice to keep yourself right and to appease vosa on the days that you drive a van,fill in a blank tacho remember to put in your breaks etc
gogzy:
what if i was in a van one week and the next week i was in a truck would i need to input the data on my digi?
You could, though there is no requirement in the rules to record if in a week 0000 mon to 2359 sun you dont do any EU work. You only need to record it in a week where you carry out EU work.
EG to keep it simple if you work mon-fri, this week you were in a transit and next week mon tues the same but wed on a tacho, you are only required to have records for mon / tues next week with you and anything falling within the last 28 days which you did in the weeks before. Does that help? I can’t ever seem to simplify it!!!
This is one where I cannot be sure of because if it is for the same employer that you drive LGVs for then it might be that all the van work for that week where you did not come under EU regs will need to be recorded for the RT(WTD)R as you are still classed as a mobile worker
Van work for a seperate employer working under the normal WTD which can be opted out of would be a different issue IMO
I have not got my head around this issue so maybe a GURU can assist ■■?
Do we start taking these guru jibes as a dig ROG?
Anyway the original post mentioned tacho rules. WTD will complicate this but…
zippy!:
Do we start taking these guru jibes as a dig ROG?
No mate - there are those on here that know a lot more than me on this issue
zippy!:
Anyway the original post mentioned tacho rules. WTD will complicate this but…
It seems that the answer is linked to the drivers type of employment - WTD or RT(WTD)R- from what I can see so far…
The Basic EU regs bit is easy -
no tacho required in vehicle as under 3.5 tonnes so the usual EU regs daily driving time limits do not apply but the daily rest times would be as the driver in the OP does LGV driving on other days in that week.
As the driver in the OP is under EU regs on other days in that week then the ‘other work’/breaks/POA must be recorded for the EU regs
zippy!:
Do we start taking these guru jibes as a dig ROG?
No mate - there are those on here that know a lot more than me on this issue
zippy!:
Anyway the original post mentioned tacho rules. WTD will complicate this but…
It seems that the answer is linked to the drivers type of employment - WTD or RT(WTD)R- from what I can see so far…
The Basic EU regs bit is easy -
no tacho required in vehicle as under 3.5 tonnes so the usual EU regs daily driving time limits do not apply but the daily rest times would be as the driver in the OP does LGV driving on other days in that week.
As the driver in the OP is under EU regs on other days in that week then the ‘other work’/breaks/POA must be recorded for the EU regs
Sorry ROG just seem to get an ask a GURU answer after posts lol. I know the basics but as posted above its hard getting it accross sometimes!!!
Yes on weeks where mixed work take place you are bang on, as not recording it would look like long breaks or daily / weekly rests.
The van driving day would also be under UK domestic regs if staying in the UK. VOSA GUIDE - page 27
Section 4: Mixed EU and GB domestic driving
Many drivers spend some of their time driving under one set of rules and some under another set, perhaps even on the same day. If you work partly under EU rules and partly under GB domestic rules during a day or a week, the following points must be considered:
The time you spend driving under EU rules cannot count as an off-duty period under GB domestic rules.
Driving and other duty under GB domestic rules (including non-driving work in another employment) count as attendance at work but not as a break or rest period under the EU rules.
Driving under EU rules counts towards the driving and duty limits under GB domestic rules.
Any driving under EU rules in a week means that you must take a daily rest period on those days when you actually drive under EU rules, as well as a weekly rest period.
Driving limits
GB domestic limit (a maximum of 10 hours of driving a day) must always be ob eyed. But at any time when you are actually driving under the EU rules you must obey all the rules on EU driving limits.
Other duty limits
GB domestic limit (i.e. no more than 11 hours on duty) must always be obeyed. But when working under EU rules you must also obey all the rules on breaks, daily rest (only on those days when actually driving) and weekly rest.
Rest periods and breaks
Again, you must always obey the EU rules on rest periods and breaks on days and weeks in which driving in scope of EU rules is carried out.
A weekly rest period is not required in a fixed week where a driver does not drive under EU rules. Where a driver works under EU rules in one week and under GB domestic rules in the following week, the driver may take either a regular or a reduced weekly rest in the first week. If the driver takes a reduced weekly rest, compensation will be required by the end of the third week following the week in question. If this working pattern continues, the driver may take either a regular or reduced weekly rest period every other week.
Where a driver works under GB domestic rules in week one and the EU rules in the second week, the weekly rest required in week two must start no later than 144 hours following the commencement of duty on or after 00.00 hours on Monday.
Records
During a week in which the in-scope driving has taken place, any previous work (including out-of-scope driving since the last weekly rest period), would have to be recorded as “other work” on a tachograph chart, printout or a manual entry using the manual input facility of a digital tachograph, or a legally required GB domestic record on a log book (see page 36).
When driving a vehicle subject to EU or AETR rules, a driver is required to produce on request tachograph records (including other work records described above) for the current day and the previous 28 calendar days.
happyweetrucker:
you are employed as an hgv driver
if you drive a van under 3.5 tonnes for a whole week then you are not under eu regs but you are still under working time regs
if you drive a van for one day in a fixed week there is no rule under British regs to hold a tacho but vosa would be looking for an explanation as to what you were doing that day
my advice to keep yourself right and to appease vosa on the days that you drive a van,fill in a blank tacho remember to put in your breaks etc
I fully support this as I have been stopped by VOSA and at the time I was driving a mixture of HGV and 3.5 tonne vans. I had completed manual entires on the back of digi rolls and as such there were no questions asked as I had a complete set of records for my working week.
I spoke to the VOSTAPO officer about whether or not this was a requirement and he said that a record must be kept. He said that he would have also accepted a written diary rather than manual entries but he also said that others may not.
They only have to check your payroll to see if your telling porkies
you still could if you wanted to.
