What do you lot think !
stopped out berwick on tweed we are under ADR put a lock onto my Fire ex as no ex cant drive
they asked me to reduce my time to 9 hours rest which I did after a 14.45 day
got up ■■■■■■■ it down did my checks lock still on but at this point my tank was empty so got back in yard and transport manager had a go about having lock onmy fire ex so explained a few groups of kids knocking about so put lock on to deter thieves he said i haven’t done my checks as to see if any pressure in fire ex so got a disciplinary on monday
don’t know as to be calm or go on one and tell em to stuff it!
you try your best and get ■■■■ on but its ok to be at the same firm and still not got a contract of employment in my hand after 4 years although according to acas this is now called a written statement of employment.
i just think its a bit harsh in 4 years never had an infringement or accident ,to get a written warning
What if you needed to get that fire extinguisher with the lock on it?
I totally get why you put it on over night, but surely you should have taken it off in the morning?
Seems to me you’ve got a disciplinary for being a half wit. Well meaning, independent thinking, half wit 
■■■■ it up buttercup
Im presuming after you discharged your tank (steady this is one of my clean posts), and returning to base your boss seeing the padlock on your fire ex box has presumed you havent checked your fire ex in your dailys, understandable if bad weather but not excusable im afraid.
However you have a right to receive a contract of employment even though after 2 years you have full statutory employment rights anyway.
See how things go at the discipinary, have you been given the option to take a witness in with you.
We have members here who are better versed in employment rights than I, hopefully they will be along soon.
Whats really twists my nuts though is how a lot of big companies treat drivers as just a number and are unwilling to have an off the record chat about perceived missdeamenors.
Best of luck whatever happens.
I’d go along to the disciplinary and see what happens.
If they try and break your balls, refuse to sign anything citing that you haven’t been given the opportunity to bring along a witness, etc… If they don’t try and break your balls, then as F-reds says: ■■■■ it up and crack on…
greatdane:
What do you lot think !
stopped out berwick on tweed we are under ADR put a lock onto my Fire ex as no ex cant drive
they asked me to reduce my time to 9 hours rest which I did after a 14.45 day
got up ■■■■■■■ it down did my checks lock still on but at this point my tank was empty so got back in yard and transport manager had a go about having lock onmy fire ex so explained a few groups of kids knocking about so put lock on to deter thieves he said i haven’t done my checks as to see if any pressure in fire ex so got a disciplinary on monday
don’t know as to be calm or go on one and tell em to stuff it!
Hi greatdane,
I agree that it might sound a bit harsh, but your boss does have a point because ADR has this to say about fire-extinguishers:
ADR 8.1.4.5
The fire extinguishers shall be installed on the transport units in a way that they are easily accessible to the vehicle crew.
If you’d had a stop-check, and they found a padlock on the fire-extinguisher box, you’d have probably got a prohibition, which could affect the company’s ‘O’ licence. From that point of view, I’m afraid that your boss has got you fair and square.
I’ll just add that you shouldn’t have had the lock on the fire-extinguisher box in the first place.
greatdane:
you try your best and get [zb] on but its ok to be at the same firm and still not got a contract of employment in my hand after 4 years although according to acas this is now called a written statement of employment.
That’s understandable mate, but it’s a completely separate point.
greatdane:
i just think its a bit harsh in 4 years never had an infringement or accident ,to get a written warning
A written warning normally expires after a certain length of time, but it was probably given just in case of any enforcement enquiry at some point. The company can then point to the written warning issued as proof that they take their responsibilities seriously.
Honestly mate, I don’t think this is worth making an issue about.
I’d also not mention the lack of written terms at this point, because it’ll just look like sour grapes.
Im gonna +1 what DD says as he is the expert on this stuff.
In hindsight your boss would have preferred the kids to knick your fire extinguisher than for the padlock to be on it. After all you could have waited for a new one to be brought out rather than risk o licence problems which affect everyone.
Sometimes trying to help just makes things worse.
In the cold light of day what may seem a good idea can often backfire, just take it on the chin put your reasoning forward and adopt the submissive position.
Just tell the truth I.e. the weather was bad and you forgot to take the padlock off and only check it once in a blue moon anyway, err or less incrimminating words to that effect.
It hurts but bollox to em.
I’ve been given a unit before for an ADR run that had a cable tie on the fire extinguisher box as the normal clip was broken.
All I did was chuck another one from the stores in the cab, job done.
As Top Dave says, it needs to be easily accessible, not sure if being in the cab satisfies that though? 
P.S. That makes you “Bottom Dave” Mr Dipper! 
A written warning sounds a bit harsh, just a private chat and bit of a bollocking would suffice, maybe even a verbal and keep your nose clean for 3 months, but in my opinion a written warning is one step away from being out of the door, and for the first one in 4 years I’d say that the OP must be a decent driver and an asset to the company.
My advice is have a witness with you for the disciplinary and take it on the chin, if you’re not satisfied or it grates on you a bit then you can always look around for something else.
Evil8Beezle:
I’ve been given a unit before for an ADR run that had a cable tie on the fire extinguisher box as the normal clip was broken.
All I did was chuck another one from the stores in the cab, job done.As Top Dave says, it needs to be easily accessible, not sure if being in the cab satisfies that though?
P.S. That makes you “Bottom Dave” Mr Dipper!
This is gonna sound terrible, no mater which way I try to say this… 
The vehicle crew’s place of work is in the vehicle cab, so that means that it’s accessible to him/them. (Sorry)
I hope the extinguisher from the stores wasn’t just chucked on the floor of the passenger side so it could roll around.
I thought I’d mention that before somebody else does. 
Greatdane-How do you feel about the job mate? If you like it and it suits you, I would go down the route of " I was trying to help the company by minimising losses, but upon reflection satisfying H&S and company policy is far more important, lesson learnt I am very sorry".
But if you are not that arsed about the place, at the disciplinary you could look at the bloke and say " You actually look more stupid than you sound which is quite impressive ". If it’s a woman you could say " I have made the effort to attend this meeting, why haven’t you made any effort with your appearance? ".
thanks for all the replys
They followed procedure and asked If i wanted somebody in and said yes!..he was going to be routed local as I am on monday
we are near Leeds I have one drop Teeside they have given the other driver isle of wight ■■? somehow I don’t think he will be back
I am going down the route of hands up guilty ! but don’t ask for any favours and my next night out maybe the fire ex will vanish !!
Time to get job hunting
greatdane:
thanks for all the replys
They followed procedure and asked If i wanted somebody in and said yes!..he was going to be routed local as I am on monday
we are near Leeds I have one drop Teeside they have given the other driver isle of wight ■■? somehow I don’t think he will be back
I am going down the route of hands up guilty ! but don’t ask for any favours and my next night out maybe the fire ex will vanish !!
Time to get job hunting
Mate, try not to take it personally… It’s just one of those things. As has been mentioned before, if I was your boss I would simply have had a quiet word, informally. But would have made a note of the conversation simply in the event it crops up again.
So, yes the gaffer is probably being a little hardheaded, but he is within his rights to be. But I do see your point, in so far as you make efforts to accommodate their needs/■■■■ ups etc, but you’ve not been cut any slack at all. If I was in your position, I would make that point quite clear, diplomatically. Loyalty is a two way street…
All I can suggest is sleep on it, try and take any emotion out of the disciplinary and just give your reasoning with a hint of submission.
If the ‘what if’ brigade should turn up with their high horses just say it will never happen again etc.
Reading between the lines your boss is making a fuss over this, perhaps he is trying to feather his own nest following the company line. Unless theres more to this I would raise this with him after and enquire why he felt a disciplinary was needed. Course he will preach the safety, O licence implications but make your feelings known. After all 4 years loyalty is what this has cost him.
Maybe im to old school and hanker for the days when a gaffer could give you a bollocking without HR involved but one misstake doesnt need this drama.
I used to have a manager where, he would give you a roasting and you’d thank him for it on the way out.
Then again, I had to give a driver a bollocking, ( MY manager was listening in), and the first question I asked this driver was, “Justify your job to me” My manager nearly fell off his chair with laughter. The driver pulled his socks up and was never a problem again.
Driver-Once-More:
I used to have a manager where, he would give you a roasting and you’d thank him for it on the way out.Then again, I had to give a driver a bollocking, ( MY manager was listening in), and the first question I asked this driver was, “Justify your job to me” My manager nearly fell off his chair with laughter. The driver pulled his socks up and was never a problem again.
We had one like that he was regularly dragged over to our side of the counter and pinned against the wall if was in the wrong and tried to give a roasting
alix, this driver REALLY was hanging out the job. I, myself did the same run (don’t tell me how to do the job unless you’re willing/capable of doing it yourself), and did it a third of the time quicker, (using his vehicle).
greatdane:
What do you lot think !
stopped out berwick on tweed we are under ADR put a lock onto my Fire ex as no ex cant drive
they asked me to reduce my time to 9 hours rest which I did after a 14.45 day
got up ■■■■■■■ it down did my checks lock still on but at this point my tank was empty so got back in yard and transport manager had a go about having lock onmy fire ex so explained a few groups of kids knocking about so put lock on to deter thieves he said i haven’t done my checks as to see if any pressure in fire ex so got a disciplinary on monday
don’t know as to be calm or go on one and tell em to stuff it!
you try your best and get [zb] on but its ok to be at the same firm and still not got a contract of employment in my hand after 4 years although according to acas this is now called a written statement of employment.
i just think its a bit harsh in 4 years never had an infringement or accident ,to get a written warning
If you’re deviating from your actual duties by applying a padlock to your fire extinguishers overnight when you haven’t been asked to do this, and have then failed to remove the padlock and therefore putting the fire extinguishers out of use, you can’t really complain, can you?
Also, the fire extinguishers are not necessarily for the personal use of the vehicle’s driver - they could be just as useful to any person in relation to any fire which might threaten the ADR vehicle (for example, it is perfectly consistent with the purpose of the ADR rules that a non-ADR driver parked next to your ADR trailer, in a service area where you have gone to use the facilities, may use your fire extinguishers to attack a fire on his vehicle and prevent your load being affected).
Of course, the extinguishers do not by ADR have to be easily accessible to the general public, but your employer may take the view that they prefer them to be publicly accessible. And even if you have a key, it’s still arguable whether this means they remain sufficiently “easily accessible”.
Regards your “contract of employment”, a contract can be verbal and can also be implied (i.e. not acknowledged either in speech or writing, but nevertheless held to exist in law), or it can be a mixture of verbal, written, and implied terms.
As Acas say what you are entitled to in writing is a “written statement of the main particulars” - that statement is not necessarily an exhaustive statement of the contract. Indeed, employment contracts have many terms that are implied by law.
Driver-Once-More:
alix, this driver REALLY was hanging out the job. I, myself did the same run (don’t tell me how to do the job unless you’re willing/capable of doing it yourself), and did it a third of the time quicker, (using his vehicle).
Yep know a few like that
Never had a disciplinary in the 28 years i have been in this industry, but have had a few verbal kicks up the arse over the years (what I would call old school discipline) which I have no problem accepting if I have done wrong, but there is no way on this earth that I would attend a disciplinary hearing to beg for mercy to keep my job, i’m afraid it would be either give me a verbal bollocking or my P45, either is acceptable, there are plenty of good jobs out there where your not treated like a child.
If you are planning on looking for another job, call there bluff and tell them you will accept a verbal for your wrong doings and nothing else, drivers need to understand that we are in short supply in certain areas and good ones in even shorter supply.
Hourses for courses but theres no need to beg for mercy just get your point across and take whats coming.
Often the punishment options have been deceided but showing some remorse, logic, regret can acheive the minimal hassle.
That said weeto has a good point an experienced good driver will have other options but you may need these buggers for a reference. Im not one for burning bridges, plenty of time for revenge at a later date.