Digital tachograph rules, urgent help please

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Hello folks.

I have an unusual problem with my tacho.

I had a breakdown in my lorry last Monday on the Fettercairn to Banchory road due to bad snow and the propshaft giving up. I was taken to the local police station where I was picked up later by car.

On the way down I realise I left my digi card in the lorry but the road has been closed since last Monday due to bad weather.

My supervisor phoned fleet services and I was told that I wasn’t allowed to drive a lorry with any kind of tacho. No exceptions. I understand if the tacho was lost/stolen or not working I could drive for upto 15 days, however mine is non of the above.

I have just had an argument with my manager over the phone as he says the fleet guy was wrong and that I can drive a lorry due to the circumstances.

Does anyone know 100% what the rule is■■? I tried to search online but nothing comes up for my situation. I tried to phone the VOSA helpline but its closed.

Hope someone with the knowledge can give me a direct answer.

2

Sorry … did you say you KNOW where it is or YOU DO NOT KNOW WHERE IT IS … if you get my meaning !!

Not knowing means it is lost :smiley:

3

I know where it is, Its in the digi drawer in the lorry I broke down in.

4

big eck:
I know where it is, Its in the digi drawer in the lorry I broke down in.

You are not getting me… “are you sure you know its there ■■?” !!! :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

It could be that another person has found your card and thrown it away … how do you know that has not happened ?

5

I do know what your getting at lol. The police already know its there and have an incident number so if I’m stopped they could find out which I’m not willing to take the chance over.

The lorry is trapped between the snow gates so no one can get to it, plus its secure.

I just need to know from a legal stand point if I can drive the lorry or not.

6

big eck:
I do know what your getting at lol. The police already know its there and have an incident number so if I’m stopped they could find out which I’m not willing to take the chance over.

The lorry is trapped between the snow gates so no one can get to it, plus its secure.

I just need to know from a legal stand point if I can drive the lorry or not.

If the police have noted that it is there then it would be hard to say its lost !!

That extra info changes everything I was trying to say

7

Exactly.

I just need to know for 100% certain if I can legally drive a lorry or not. I’ve been driving the small van all week and now there saying I can drive the lorry as the info was wrong the first time round. My work have a habit of lieing to there drivers to suit the company and not give a ■■■■ what happens to the drivers liscence.

8

big eck:
I do know what your getting at lol. The police already know its there and have an incident number so if I’m stopped they could find out which I’m not willing to take the chance over.

The lorry is trapped between the snow gates so no one can get to it, plus its secure.

I just need to know from a legal stand point if I can drive the lorry or not.

if you can get to the lorry and put your card in then why do you think you are not allowed to drive it :question:

9

Directly from the regs 561/2006 … eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF

Article 15
Member States shall ensure that drivers of vehicles referred to
in Article 3(a) are governed by national rules which provide
adequate protection in terms of permitted driving times and
mandatory breaks and rest periods.

Article 15 shall be amended as follows:
– in paragraph 1, the following subparagraph shall be
added:
‘Where a driver card is damaged, malfunctions, or is
not in the possession of the driver, the driver shall:
(a) at the start of his journey, print out the details
of the vehicle the driver is driving, and shall
enter onto that printout:

etc etc etc

That will teach me to check the regs first before posting !!

10

oh dear lorry broke down recovery came out to take me home and It wouldn’t let me eject my card for what ever reason :grimacing: trucks stuck due to weather manual entries till the card can be retrieved well for at least 15days

11

Ok I get the feeling you don’t know what the situation is.

The lorry that I broke down with is in the middle of no where over 100miles away from the depot with no chance of recovery (until the police reopen the road) and my digi card is in the drawer.

In the meantime I need to know if I can drive a lorry legally. I’ve been told as its not lost or stolen I CANNOT drive any lorry with a tacho. However today over the phone my manager has said that’s NOT the case and that I can drive a lorry.

All I need to know is which one is correct. If I could phone VOSA for the answer I would but there closed.

12

nick2008:
oh dear lorry broke down recovery came out to take me home and It wouldn’t let me eject my card for what ever reason :grimacing: trucks stuck due to weather manual entries till the card can be retrieved well for at least 15days

The thing is the police know the card is in the van. They couldn’t take be back to get it as there was another emergancy. So I don’t know if that excuse would hold up.

13

From the quote in the regs I posted you can drive without your card

There are also other rules which state this can be done for a max of 15 calendar days

14

ROG:
Directly from the regs 561/2006 … eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF

Article 15
Member States shall ensure that drivers of vehicles referred to
in Article 3(a) are governed by national rules which provide
adequate protection in terms of permitted driving times and
mandatory breaks and rest periods.

Article 15 shall be amended as follows:
– in paragraph 1, the following subparagraph shall be
added:
‘Where a driver card is damaged, malfunctions, or is
not in the possession of the driver, the driver shall:
(a) at the start of his journey, print out the details
of the vehicle the driver is driving, and shall
enter onto that printout:

etc etc etc

That will teach me to check the regs first before posting !!

After reading what Rog has posted it looks like you can drive as long as you record your driving until your digi card can be returned to you

15

You can drive for up to 15 calendar days and have 7 days in which to report it to DVLA

The card is not in your possession - it doesn’t have to be lost or stolen. Doesn’t matter who knows where it is or isn’t, it isn’t in your possession.

To be honest - for £19 I’d report it as lost now. Then when you ‘find’ it you can destroy it. New card will be with you in a few days

16

If you get stopped you tell Vosa you have lost it and just snet the application off for a new one, Vosa do not know where it is and are not going to ask every police station in the country if they know where it is and you will have it back in a few days, just apply for a new one and you are sorted

17

ROG:
Directly from the regs 561/2006 … eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF

Article 15
Member States shall ensure that drivers of vehicles referred to
in Article 3(a) are governed by national rules which provide
adequate protection in terms of permitted driving times and
mandatory breaks and rest periods.===============================================
Article 15 shall be amended as follows:
– in paragraph 1, the following subparagraph shall be
added:
‘Where a driver card is damaged, malfunctions, or is
not in the possession of the driver, the driver shall:
(a) at the start of his journey, print out the details
of the vehicle the driver is driving, and shall
enter onto that printout:

etc etc etc

That will teach me to check the regs first before posting !!

hi ROG the Article 15 there have amended it from this one
COUNCIL REGULATION (EEC) No 3821/85 Article 15

Article 15

  1. Drivers shall not use dirty or damaged record sheets. The sheets shall be adequately protected on this account.

‘Where a driver card is damaged, malfunctions, or is
not in the possession of the driver, the driver shall:
(a) at the start of his journey, print out the details
of the vehicle the driver is driving, and shall
enter onto that printout:

In case of damage to a sheet bearing recordings, drivers shall attach the damaged sheet to the spare sheet used to replace it.

  1. Drivers shall use the record sheets every day on which they are driving, starting from the moment they take over the vehicle. The record sheet shall not be withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal is otherwise authorized. No record sheet may be used to cover a period longer than that for which it is intended. When, as a result of being away from the vehicle, a driver is unable to use the equipment fitted to the vehicle, the periods of time indicated in paragraph 3, second indent (b), (c) and (d) below shall be entered on the sheet, either manually, by automatic recording or other means, legibly and without dirtying the sheet.

Drivers shall amend the record sheets as necessary should there be more than one driver on board the vehicle, so that the information referred to in Chapter II (1) to (3) of Annex I is recorded on the record sheet of the driver who is actually driving.

  1. Drivers shall:

  • ensure that the time recorded on the sheet agrees with the official time in the country of registration of the vehicle,

  • operate the switch mechanisms enabling the following periods of time to be recorded separately and distinctly:

(a) under the sign : driving time;

(b) under the sign : all other periods of work;

(c) under the sign : other periods of availability, namely:

  • waiting time, i.e. the period during which drivers need remain at their posts only for the purpose of answering any calls to start or resume driving or to carry out other work,

  • time spent beside the driver while the vehicle is in motion,

  • time spent on a bunk while the vehicle is in motion;

(d) under the sign : breaks in work and daily rest periods.

  1. Each Member State may permit all the periods referred to in paragraph 3, second indent (b) and (c) to be recorded under the sign on the record sheets used on vehicles registered in its territory.

  2. Each crew member shall enter the following information on his record sheet:

(a) on beginning to use the sheet - his surname and first name;

(b) the date and place where use of the sheet begins and the date and place where such use ends;

(c) the registration number of each vehicle to which he is assigned, both at the start of the first journey recorded on the sheet and then, in the event of a change of vehicle, during use of the sheet;

(d) the odometer reading:

  • at the start of the first journey recorded on the sheet,

  • at the end of the last journey recorded on the sheet,

  • in the event of a change of vehicle during a working day (reading on the vehicle to which he was assigned and reading on the vehicle to which he is to be assigned);

(e) the time of any change of vehicle.

  1. The equipment shall be so designed that it is possible for an authorized inspecting officer, if necessary after opening the equipment, to read the recordings relating to the nine hours preceding the time of the check without permanently deforming, damaging or soiling the sheet.

The equipment shall, furthermore, be so designed that it is possible, without opening the case, to verify that recordings are being made.

  1. Whenever requested by an authorized inspecting officer to do so, the driver must be able to produce record sheets for the current week, and in any case for the last day of the previous week on which he drove.

and there amended that to be added in red

18

big eck:
Hello folks.

I have an unusual problem with my tacho.

I had a breakdown in my lorry last Monday on the Fettercairn to Banchory road due to bad snow and the propshaft giving up. I was taken to the local police station where I was picked up later by car.

On the way down I realise I left my digi card in the lorry but the road has been closed since last Monday due to bad weather.

My supervisor phoned fleet services and I was told that I wasn’t allowed to drive a lorry with any kind of tacho. No exceptions. I understand if the tacho was lost/stolen or not working I could drive for upto 15 days, however mine is non of the above.

I have just had an argument with my manager over the phone as he says the fleet guy was wrong and that I can drive a lorry due to the circumstances.

Does anyone know 100% what the rule is■■? I tried to search online but nothing comes up for my situation. I tried to phone the VOSA helpline but its closed.

Hope someone with the knowledge can give me a direct answer.

I realise this reply is too late to be of any help to you but for future reference:

If you drive on public roads you should be in possession of your driver card, I believe that it’s illegal to drive without the card unless it’s faulty/lost or stolen.

However if you were to be stopped at a road-side check, I find it difficult to believe that VOSA would not regard your situation as being of special circumstances and allow you to carry on whilst giving you the opportunity to produce your card at a later date.

Perhaps the people who are saying it’s generally OK to drive while the driver card is not in your possession and is not lost or stolen, could explain why if you get stopped by VOSA you could be parked up and fined £200 for failing to produce the required records ?

19

shep532:
You can drive for up to 15 calendar days and have 7 days in which to report it to DVLA

The card is not in your possession - it doesn’t have to be lost or stolen. Doesn’t matter who knows where it is or isn’t, it isn’t in your possession.

To be honest - for £19 I’d report it as lost now. Then when you ‘find’ it you can destroy it. New card will be with you in a few days

no! :open_mouth: he can legally drive! :unamused: then he’d have two cards! :sunglasses: and he can do some foreigners/ keep a clean card ( cough, cough! Ahem ) :grimacing: :grimacing:

20

tachograph:
Perhaps the people who are saying it’s generally OK to drive while the driver card is not in your possession and is not lost or stolen, could explain why if you get stopped by VOSA you could be parked up and fined £200 for failing to produce the required records ?

I was commenting on this case only, if a driver had left his card at home, I would expect them not to drive until it was in there possession. It was entirely up to the op if he wanted to take the risk!

Have you got your card back yet big eck?