DCPC 'acquired rights'

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

I dont no if this as been covered before but will, but will let you know any way.

If you have a D licence and a LGV licence before 10/09/2008 your ‘acquired rights’ will end on 09/09/2013 for both even if you don’t use your psv licence, so you will not be able to drive a truck form 10/09/2013 unless you have completed you 35 hours DCPC.

From here
businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … =en&r.s=sl

If adriver holds a vocational licence drive a lorry as well as bus or coach, they only need to complete one set of periodic training. To retain entitlement for both categories, this training must be completed before the expiry of Driver CPC status for the earlier category.

Hope its of help

2

I’m not sure that’s quite correct Del, my understanding is that you will lose the PSV entitlement in 2013 but could carry on driving goods vehicles until September 2014.

I could be wrong though :wink:

3

tachograph:
I’m not sure that’s quite correct Del, my understanding is that you will lose the PSV entitlement in 2013 but could carry on driving goods vehicles until September 2014.

I could be wrong though :wink:

hi tachograph :wink: :wink: yes but it says it all here in just one sentence :wink: :wink:

To retain entitlement for both categories, this training must be completed before the expiry of Driver CPC status for the earlier category

and as will all know its all in the wording check out the red bits

4

delboytwo:
To retain entitlement for both categories, this training must be completed before the expiry of Driver CPC status for the earlier category

and as will all know its all in the wording check out the red bits

AIUI this refers to the periodic training only not aquired rights.

5

The way I read that is that if you want to carry on driving both PSV and goods vehicles you need to do the training by 2013 but will only lose the PSV entitlement if you haven’t done the training by September 2013.

Like I said I could be wrong though and probably am :wink:

6

mrpj:

delboytwo:
To retain entitlement for both categories, this training must be completed before the expiry of Driver CPC status for the earlier category

and as will all know its all in the wording check out the red bits

AIUI this refers to the periodic training only not aquired rights.

if you don’t complete you periodic training for your PSV licence before your acquired rights end 09/09/2013, and have a LGV licence you will loose the right to drive a LGV from 10/09/2013 you must complete all your driver periodic training for both categories by 09/09/13 to continue to driver trucks for a living.

7

That is correct for the red bits because if the PCV is not completed by 09/09/2013 then that right is lost BUT only until it is regained again by the completion of all 35 hours within the alloted timeframe

It does mean it is lost forever

A lot of leeway is given until 10/09/2014 because that is the date when both PCV & LGV come together for one DQC expiry date

Any DQC issued from 10/09/2014 will have the same expiry dates for both LGV & PCV on it

8

delboytwo:
if you don’t complete you periodic training for your PSV licence before your acquired rights end 09/09/2013, and have a LGV licence you will loose the right to drive a LGV from 10/09/2013 you must complete all your driver periodic training for both categories by 09/09/13 to continue to driver trucks for a living.

That is incorrect - you are reading it wrong

Just because a driver has both does noot change the law
The law states that LGV drivers have until 09/09/2014 and makes no reference to having different rules applied if the driver also has PCV in regard to that expiry date

9

tachograph:
The way I read that is that if you want to carry on driving both PSV and goods vehicles you need to do the training by 2013 but will only lose the PSV entitlement if you haven’t done the training by September 2013.

Like I said I could be wrong though and probably am :wink:

you may well be wrong there mate :wink: :wink: :wink: if you read the above post it will tell you why

as you know we got 5 years acquired rights. which started on the 10/09/2008 for PCV’s and 10/09/2009 for LGV’s
so if you have a PCV and LGV your 5 years started in 10/09/2008 so you must complete all your periodic training by 09/09/2013.

to be able to drive both PCV and LGV

10

delboytwo:
To retain entitlement for both categories, this training must be completed before the expiry of Driver CPC status for the earlier category

and as will all know its all in the wording check out the red bits

Del, To retain ONE but not BOTH if you have BOTH then that is correct

The ONE lost temporarily will be PCV and the ONE retained will be LGV because the LGV has the longer expiry date

The PCV will be re-instated the moment the LGV is completed before 09/09/2014

11

Hi Rog

This was to to me by an RTITB instructor

You get 5 years to complete your driver periodic training remember that OK, you don’t get 6 years if you have both PSV and LGV before 10/09/2008 your 5 years acquired rights start on that date and end on 09/09/2013

please read this from

businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … =RESOURCES

Driver CPC periodic training for lorry, bus and coach drivers
Who needs to take Driver CPC periodic training?
All lorry, bus and coach drivers who drive professionally must renew their Driver CPC status by completing training every five years.

Professional drivers who hold a relevant licence issued before the introduction of Driver CPC have ‘acquired rights’. These ‘acquired rights’ are valid for five years from the introduction of Driver CPC.

Driver CPC introduced Licence type Licence categories
10 September 2008 Bus and coach with more than nine seats D, D+E, D1, or D1+E
10 September 2009 Lorry C, C+E, C1, or C1+E

However, drivers with D, D1, D+E and D1+E entitlement on their licence stating ‘not for hire or reward’ (Code 101) do not have acquired rights. They will have to take the initial qualification tests to drive for a living.

Drivers with ‘acquired rights’ must complete periodic training during the current five-year period to keep their Driver CPC status.

Periodic training can be completed before the current status ends. Each new five-year period will begin from when the current Driver CPC status expires. For example, if a driver with acquired rights completed periodic training for a bus licence in November 2011, their DQC will be valid until September 2018.

If a driver holds a vocational licence drive a lorry as well as bus or coach, they only need to complete one set of periodic training. To retain entitlement for both categories, this training must be completed before the expiry of Driver CPC status for the earlier category.

So example if you passed you PSV and LGV before 10/09/2008 you gained acquired rights on the 10/09/2008 for your PSV and therefore your acquired rights and on 09/09/2013 based on the red bit you first category was PSV and therefore all your 35 hour must be completed to drive for a living by 09/09/2013 to retain your driver cpc status

12

delboytwo:
So example if you passed you PSV and LGV before 10/09/2008 you gained acquired rights on the 10/09/2008 for your PSV and therefore your acquired rights and on 09/09/2013 based on the red bit you first category was PSV and therefore all your 35 hour must be completed to drive for a living by 09/09/2013 to retain your driver cpc status

For PCV you are correct but not for LGV

You are missing the meaning of the word RETAIN … it does not say LOSE

RETAINING both is not the same as LOSING both so where it says the driver will not RETAIN both means the driver will not keep both PCV & LGV but it does not say they will LOSE both LGV & PCV - it means one, not both, will be retained which in this case means the LGV will be retained but the PCV will not if all 35 hours are not completed by 09/09/2013

I cannot say it any clearer than that so I hope you now get the correct meanings

13

delboytwo:
This was to to me by an RTITB instructor

That’s where you’re going wrong. Don’t listen to trainers and instructors because apart from a few notable exceptions they generally don’t have a clue, as is proved time and time again on this forum.

14

ROG:

delboytwo:
So example if you passed you PSV and LGV before 10/09/2008 you gained acquired rights on the 10/09/2008 for your PSV and therefore your acquired rights and on 09/09/2013 based on the red bit you first category was PSV and therefore all your 35 hour must be completed to drive for a living by 09/09/2013 to retain your driver cpc status

For PCV you are correct but not for LGV

You are missing the meaning of the word RETAIN … it does not say LOSE

RETAINING both is not the same as LOSING both so where it says the driver will not RETAIN both means the driver will not keep both PCV & LGV but it does not say they will LOSE both LGV & PCV - it means one, not both, will be retained which in this case means the LGV will be retained but the PCV will not if all 35 hours are not completed by 09/09/2013

I cannot say it any clearer than that so I hope you now get the correct meanings

Rog I will tell you something I have complete all my driver DCPC now and on my last course the RTITB instructor told any driver that as a PSV on there licence as well as a LGV there most complete all the 35 hours DCPC by 09/09/2013 to retain there driver status for both, he also got this from jault and so did I cos i did not believe him

Can i ask you this which was the first category to start DCPC and when

If you have both categories on you licence which one was the earlier category

now
read this again

If a driver holds a vocational licence drive a lorry as well as bus or coach, they only need to complete one set of periodic training. To retain entitlement for both categories,this training must be completed before the expiry of Driver CPC status for the earlier category.

It can not be more clearer .

Lets say you have both and PSV and LGV and you had them both before the DCPC came in. In 10/09/2008 you got your acquired rights for your PSV 5 years the end date of this is 09/09/2013 . say you only do 21 hours DCPC by 01/01/2013 you must still do 14 hours by 09/09/2013 To retain entitlement for both categories it clear as mud mate

He also told us it was said at the commercial motor show at millbrook by jault as there did some workshops there.

15

You have done it again Del - not reading what is there and trying to fit it in with your belief of what you think it says

I suggest you call the DSA driver CPC hotline who KNOW the ruless and ask them as you are noot listening to the rest of us

0191 201 8112

16

ROG:
You have done it again Del - not reading what is there and trying to fit it in with your belief of what you think it says

I suggest you call the DSA driver CPC hotline who KNOW the ruless and ask them as you are noot listening to the rest of us

0191 201 8112

Rang them. And there looking into it as there say the website is wrong

So we will have to see whos right and who wrong

17

I’ll have one more go … for my sins …

delboytwo:
If a driver holds a vocational licence drive a lorry as well as bus or coach, they only need to complete one set of periodic training. To retain entitlement for both categories,this training must be completed before the expiry of Driver CPC status for the earlier category.

It can not be more clearer .

You are right - it cannot be clearer - but not in the way you are reading it

Let me ask you this …

If you have two vouchers with one expiry dated september 2012 and the other expiry dated december 2012 and it is now october 2012
Have you retained entitlement to both valid vouchers or have you now retained entitlement to one valid voucher?
Have you lost both valid vouchers?
If you had used both vouchers in september would you have retained valid entitlement to both vouchers?

18

I do not know what question you asked them on that hotline but I asked this one …

A driver has both PCV & LGV aquired rights and completes the last 7 hours of periodic training in early 2014.
Am I right in saying that between sept 2013 and early 2014 that driver temporarily loses the right to drive PCVs commercially, can continue to drive LGVs commercially, but gets back that PCV right after completing the last of the 35 hours in early 2014?

Answer = yes

19

As there say its all in the wording and I think I need to take English language course. So I will bow down to your answer, and say yes I will admit it that i have got it wrong :blush: again as usual.

20

delboytwo:
He also told us it was said at the commercial motor show at millbrook by jault as there did some workshops there.

JAULT (or even JAUPT) weren’t at the Millbrook event. The DSA were, but they had gone home by the time of the workshops :wink:

There were however some very interesting facts given out about the DCPC in France and Poland. Apparently the DCPC has been a legal requirement in France since 1995. Employers have to contribute something like 1.6% of turnover towards the training but in practice are contributing 2% on average and training is completed during working hours. Unemployed get DCPC for free. Periodic DCPC has to be completed either in a 5 day block, or alternatively in a 3 day block and 2 day block within a 3 month period. there is a minimum per class of 8 and a maximum of 16. trainers are given 6 months probation on application during which they must complete 8 successful sessions. if they don’t meet the standards they are banned for 12 months before they can apply again. the French will be concentrating on driver behaviour at rail level crossings and driving in tunnels :smiley:

Poland on the other hand has no upper limit to class size and the speaker told us of a perfectly legitimate course with 180 people attending :open_mouth: He also pointed out that in Poland an hour of training only lasts 45 minutes leaving 15 minutes in each hour for breaks.