CPC

[d_thompson]

You’re either a gaffer trying to ■■■■ a few in or are you jealous if the ones getting the wage rises and want it to end because you’re not worthy?

As i have posted elsewhere i am a bin wagon driver i work for a council so am on a decent wage a brilliant pension and we get a wage rise every year plus 27 days holiday and bank holidays so shove that one up your arse.

Can i again draw your attention to this as this is a thread was originally about DCPC and started by me -

There aren’t desperate drivers chasing work, there are desperate firm and desperate agencys chasing drivers

So if there are no desperate drivers chasing work why did you make such a fuss about my suggestion to stop DCPC to let these driver back into the industry to alleviate the *current shortage?

You suggested if the requirement for DCPC was scrapped these drivers would flood back in and basically stop the shortage meaning you wouldn’t get your wage rise then you say “There aren’t desperate drivers chasing work” which is it?

[stevieboy308]

D.Thompson:

You’re either a gaffer trying to ■■■■ a few in or are you jealous if the ones getting the wage rises and want it to end because you’re not worthy?

As i have posted elsewhere i am a bin wagon driver i work for a council so am on a decent wage a brilliant pension and we get a wage rise every year plus 27 days holiday and bank holidays so shove that one up your arse.

Can i again draw your attention to this as this is a thread was originally about DCPC and started by me -

There aren’t desperate drivers chasing work, there are desperate firm and desperate agencys chasing drivers

So if there are no desperate drivers chasing work why did you make such a fuss about my suggestion to stop DCPC to let these driver back into the industry to alleviate the *current shortage?

You suggested if the requirement for DCPC was scrapped these drivers would flood back in and basically stop the shortage meaning you wouldn’t get your wage rise then you say “There aren’t desperate drivers chasing work” which is it?

Ok will do, but I’ll do it later, ok?

Didn’t think this would need spelling out.

If 100k drivers are required in the country in total, to keep it simple as we’re gonna need to.

If there are 90k actually driving, then companies and agencies up the money to get their required drivers from the current 90k and to attract new and returning drivers.

If they then get to 95k actually driving then the shortfall isn’t as bad and there will be less wage increases the and the higher rates will start to disappear.

If they get to 100k of 100k required, the wage rises stop

If there’s 105k drivers wanting to drive for the 100k jobs, then agency rates crash

By artificially adding to the pool of drivers by scrapping the dcpc, then plenty even if not wanting full time driving would do odd shifts that they wouldn’t have done as they wouldn’t have been bothered to do the DCPC you say yourself, scrap it to ease the shortage, if it eases the shortage then it will also have a negative effect on the T&Cs just like if they allowed EU workers back, it would have a negative effect on T&Cs, this is supply and demand, you can not argue that it’s wrong.

No shifting of the goal posts, no stalking you, I just don’t want the shortage ended any other way than by increasing T&Cs as any other way will have a negative effect on T&Cs. This is what is happening as everyone including yourself knows wages are rising at a fast rate, you see it on Facebook groups, I’ve seen plenty of people asking questions as they’ve not driven for years on what do they need to do for their dcpc or Digi tachos and plenty are seeing the wages being banded about and wanting to find out more about how to become a wagon driver. Supply and demand, it’s working,money goes up, more people wanting to drive.

If you’re not happy with wages going up and the resulting increase at the tills, then start a group of like minded drivers and pay your 10 / 20% rise to a suitable charity. I am happy about the wages going up, so I won’t be joining your group so you don’t need to think if I’ve only joined to stalk you!

[d_thompson]

This is what is happening as everyone including yourself knows wages are rising at a fast rate, you see it on Facebook groups, I’ve seen plenty of people asking questions as they’ve not driven for years on what do they need to do for their dcpc or Digi tachos and plenty are seeing the wages being banded about and wanting to find out more about how to become a wagon driver. Supply and demand, it’s working,money goes up, more people wanting to drive.

I get that but as a member said this won’t get rid of the shortage as drivers will move for the money and as the report said even if no more drivers leave it will take 2 years to fill the gap even with the new fast track test, those drivers that left for other reasons than pay won’t come back surely this is going to cause huge problems for the country.

.

[stevieboy308]

D.Thompson:

This is what is happening as everyone including yourself knows wages are rising at a fast rate, you see it on Facebook groups, I’ve seen plenty of people asking questions as they’ve not driven for years on what do they need to do for their dcpc or Digi tachos and plenty are seeing the wages being banded about and wanting to find out more about how to become a wagon driver. Supply and demand, it’s working,money goes up, more people wanting to drive.

I get that but as a member said this won’t get rid of the shortage as drivers will move for the money and as the report said even if no more drivers leave it will take 2 years to fill the gap even with the new fast track test, those drivers that left for other reasons than pay won’t come back surely this is going to cause huge problems for the country.

.

Not true, if someone left the industry 5 years ago when they were on 30k and only slightly more than they were earning 10 years prior to that, as it wasn’t worth it for them at 30k as they could get a normal job on 25k, but now they can get 50k it all of a sudden is worth it again. Again I feel like you don’t need that explaining, again as I said even 100 or 200k wouldn’t be enough for some.

Who is the report by? RHA / FTA, remember they are not your friend, they come to that conclusion by calculating the number of new passes, required to fill the 100k shortfall plus 600 current driver’s leaving per week.

The 100k is total ■■■■■■■■ for a start it’s a plucked out of the air figure, there are not 100k jobs advertised on indeed. And they ain’t factoring the 80k with a licence and DCPC and 600k with a licence, people that are already coming back because of the increased T&C’s.

They want EU workers back to keep wages low for their members instead of having to pay the going rate, they are painting doomsday scenario to pressure the government to allow EU workers back, so far the government have seen through their ■■■■■■■■ and said no.

They’ve been claiming Xmas is cancelled because of a driver shortage every year for ages, someone has currently got a post up about this, it’s always been about getting more drivers in to keep wages low.

[d_thompson]

stevieboy308:

D.Thompson:

This is what is happening as everyone including yourself knows wages are rising at a fast rate, you see it on Facebook groups, I’ve seen plenty of people asking questions as they’ve not driven for years on what do they need to do for their dcpc or Digi tachos and plenty are seeing the wages being banded about and wanting to find out more about how to become a wagon driver. Supply and demand, it’s working,money goes up, more people wanting to drive.

I get that but as a member said this won’t get rid of the shortage as drivers will move for the money and as the report said even if no more drivers leave it will take 2 years to fill the gap even with the new fast track test, those drivers that left for other reasons than pay won’t come back surely this is going to cause huge problems for the country.

.

Not true, if someone left the industry 5 years ago when they were on 30k and only slightly more than they were earning 10 years prior to that, as it wasn’t worth it for them at 30k as they could get a normal job on 25k, but now they can get 50k it all of a sudden is worth it again. Again I feel like you don’t need that explaining, again as I said even 100 or 200k wouldn’t be enough for some.

Who is the report by? RHA / FTA, remember they are not your friend, they come to that conclusion by calculating the number of new passes, required to fill the 100k shortfall plus 600 current driver’s leaving per week.

The 100k is total [zb] for a start it’s a plucked out of the air figure, there are not 100k jobs advertised on indeed. And they ain’t factoring the 80k with a licence and DCPC and 600k with a licence, people that are already coming back because of the increased T&C’s.

They want EU workers back to keep wages low for their members instead of having to pay the going rate, they are painting doomsday scenario to pressure the government to allow EU workers back, so far the government have seen through their [zb] and said no.

They’ve been claiming Xmas is cancelled because of a driver shortage every year for ages, someone has currently got a post up about this, it’s always been about getting more drivers in to keep wages low.

Well I cannot argue with the figures as I don’t have any to back it up and , you say everyone is telling porkies about the numbers as if they have an agenda which seems ridiculous but as I said I haven’t got the figures to prove you wrong
I cannot remember ever hearing that a lack of drivers is harming the country as is being reported now.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[jeffa]

Why would the pay increases be temporary? Its only gone up to 14-15 quid an hour - still not good - you can get that doing a thousand jobs. I cant see driving attracting thousands of new young people, its mostly going to be retired guys coming back.

And as soon as the pay starts dropping they will leave anyway. I cant see pay going back to 50 pence above minimum wage like before.

[jeffa]

If this was any other time the tories would have been offering to pay the flights for EE drivers to come back - but its a bit tricky spending 4 years screaming “Great britain doesnt need europe!!” and then go crawling on your belly back to the EU for help.

[zac_a]

D.Thompson:
He said -

“Scrapping the CPC requirement will enable LGV license holders to return to driving who currently cannot do so due to not having a DCPC”

which makes perfect sense.

That’s your opinion, just as his argument is just his opinion, that’s just one reason why the petition is doomed to failure. Decisions regarding things such as legislation need to be based on a logical argument, which has to work objectively.

Example of a correct logical argument: all cats are mammals, a tiger is a cat, therefore a tiger is a mammal Very clearly true

Example of an incorrect logical argument: All firefighters know CPR, Dave knows CPR, therefore Dave is a Firefighter That’s a false argument

The guy behind the petition has intrinsically linked the driver shortage to the presence of DCPC with no evidence, it fails to meet the criteria for a logical argument, therefore it’s dead in the water.

EDIT: and, as I said in another post, there’s nothing stopping these hypothetical drivers getting their DCPC, so there’s another shot in the foot.

[wheel_nut]

JeffA:
Do you have to go on the same course every 5 years in many other line of work? Do brickies have to pay to sit in a class for 35 hours while some fat bloke on a video says “This is a brick. And this is mortar”.

My missus is a nurse and has to do compulsory training all year round, drugs, methods, devices, and procedures are changing all the time.

Teachers have to do 5 InSeT days every year.

[jeffa]

Wheel Nut:

JeffA:
Do you have to go on the same course every 5 years in many other line of work? Do brickies have to pay to sit in a class for 35 hours while some fat bloke on a video says “This is a brick. And this is mortar”.

My missus is a nurse and has to do compulsory training all year round, drugs, methods, devices, and procedures are changing all the time.

Teachers have to do 5 InSeT days every year.

Do they have to pay for it themselves?

And I can see drugs/methods changing a lot faster than driving a truck changes. Drivers hours changes once every 20 years or something? What else is there to keep up on?

[d_thompson]

JeffA:
I cant see driving attracting thousands of new young people, its mostly going to be retired guys coming back.

And as soon as the pay starts dropping they will leave anyway. I cant see pay going back to 50 pence above minimum wage like before.

That’s the problem once there is no shortage and the living wage has caught up we will be in the same place as now, it’s good that for some wages are heading in the right direction but those not willing to move for a higher wage for whatever reason will still be on a low wage.

[d_thompson]

The guy behind the petition has intrinsically linked the driver shortage to the presence of DCPC with no evidence, it fails to meet the criteria for a logical argument, therefore it’s dead in the water.

This has been discussed in the thread he should have pointed out the shortcomings of DCPC which we all are aware of and the fact scrapping it even temporarily could help with the shortage but he didn’t and so far it has 5,800 signatures and ends on 13 January 2022, i would like to see it get to 10,000 just to see the response.

At 10,000 signatures…
At 10,000 signatures, government will respond to this petition

[zac_a]

You’re missing the point, he shouldn’t have said DCPC was responsible for the driver shortage, there is no evidence for that, so his entire petition is pointless.

[d_thompson]

Zac_A:
You’re missing the point, he shouldn’t have said DCPC was responsible for the driver shortage, there is no evidence for that, so his entire petition is pointless.

I thought i covered that when i posted this -

he should have pointed out the shortcomings of DCPC which we all are aware of and the fact scrapping it even temporarily could help with the shortage but he didn’t

The wording might make the poll pointless but 5800 people have taken the time to register and sign it, as i said above i would like to see it get to 10,000 just to see the response.

[zac_a]

No you didn’t cover it; the problem is with his petition, it is illogical, he’s done the equivalent of saying 2+2=5

[d_thompson]

Zac_A:
No you didn’t cover it; the problem is with his petition, it is illogical, he’s done the equivalent of saying 2+2=5

Well 5,800 people agree with the way he worded it and i still hope it gets to 10,000 so we can see how they respond.

Scrap Drivers Certificate Professional Competence (DCPC) to ease driver shortage
Government and the Department for transport need to remove the requirement for a driver to hold a DCPC also known as drivers certificate of professional competence, this has been required since 2009.

The RHA and FTA I’ve been asking the government to help the haulage industry with the driver shortage, scrapping the CPC requirement will enable LGV license holders to return to driving who currently cannot do so due to not having a DCPC, The scheme never fulfilled the promises made when it was introduced and has exacerbated the driver shortage to the point that the economy will suffer, it’s time now to rethink this poorly thought out legislation that caused a large exodus of drivers.

Sign this petition petition.parliament.uk/petition … atures/new

[wheel_nut]

For all those named BOB with the attention span of a goldfish, you can split your 7 hours training over two days, JAUPT allow you to do it in 3.5 hour segments.

We have to remember we are an unskilled workforce and can leave school with nothing after staring out of the window for 5 or 6 years, to taking a 90 minute driving test and stare out of the window for the next 45 years.

[d_thompson]

Wheel Nut:
For all those named BOB with the attention span of a goldfish, you can split your 7 hours training over two days, JAUPT allow you to do it in 3.5 hour segments

We don’t get that option we have to do our 7 hours on a Saturday at our depot and the trainer comes to us, loads of us in the room looking forward to our one day off (on the Sunday) totally uninterested in anything the poor guy taking it has to say, the one consolation is we get overtime for doing it.

[wheel_nut]

JeffA:

Wheel Nut:

JeffA:
Do you have to go on the same course every 5 years in many other line of work? Do brickies have to pay to sit in a class for 35 hours while some fat bloke on a video says “This is a brick. And this is mortar”.

My missus is a nurse and has to do compulsory training all year round, drugs, methods, devices, and procedures are changing all the time.

Teachers have to do 5 InSeT days every year.

Do they have to pay for it themselves?

And I can see drugs/methods changing a lot faster than driving a truck changes. Drivers hours changes once every 20 years or something? What else is there to keep up on?

Drivers hours for one, there might not have been a major change since 2006 but I guarantee you that if you ask 5 drivers a question about using a ferry, you will get 5 different answers.

It’s the same with nursing, do you leave a wound to dry out in the open air or wrap it tightly in elastic bandages?

Driver CPC can be made interesting if you include some specialisms like ADR. Basic Vehicle Maintenance like how do brakes really work and why should I remove a brick from between my tyres.

I know some drivers who have sat through the same course 5 times,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[d_thompson]

Driver CPC can be made interesting if you include some specialisms like ADR. Basic Vehicle Maintenance like how do brakes really work and why should I remove a brick from between my tyres.

It should be more relevant to the people on the course and a maximum of 4 hours.

We are on record books do we really need to sit through this -

suretraininggroup.com/cours … ographs-4/

Driver’s Hours
•Regulations
•Exemptions
•Terminology
•Non driving time
•Breaks and rest periods
•Driving hours
•Trains and ferry boats
•Multi manned vehicles
•GB domestic hours
•Emergencies
•AETR

Tachographs
•Driver’s hours records
•Types of tachographs
•Analogue tachographs
•Modes
•Responsibilities
•Tampering

Digital Tachographs
•Legislations
•VU
•Displays
•Data
•Calendar minute rule
•Mixed driving
•Mode switch changes
•Pictograms
•UTC
•Driver / Company / Workshop Cards
•Enforcement
•Record keeping