A company near me are advertising for casual drivers for a converted double deck bus - they require a C1 licence holder. I believe the bus is taxed as a HGV and it is a show vehicle - it is kitted out with various computer equipment and is not used for transport of goods or passengers.
All the deckers I have seen have an unladen weight of well over 7500kg but is there any way it is possible to drive such a vehicle on a C1 licence?
Would an operators licence be required to run such a vehicle, it is certainly being used for commercial purposes but not for transport of goods or passengers?
More information about the vehicle needed. This is not straightforward. When was it 1st registered, what tax category and MOT class is it? this makes a difference. It may indeed weigh less than 7500. How many seats has it got? The answers are probably on the log book - if this is correct.
dekka:
A company near me are advertising for casual drivers for a converted double deck bus - they require a C1 licence holder. I believe the bus is taxed as a HGV and it is a show vehicle - it is kitted out with various computer equipment and is not used for transport of goods or passengers.
All the deckers I have seen have an unladen weight of well over 7500kg but is there any way it is possible to drive such a vehicle on a C1 licence?
Would an operators licence be required to run such a vehicle, it is certainly being used for commercial purposes but not for transport of goods or passengers?
Any thoughts?
thanks
Possibly Private HGV. Driver training vehicles are taxed as such although they do not carry goods they are still revenue earning vehicles. The same applies to recovery vehicles.
Most buses with seats (double deckers) tend to come in around 10t
I think it would have to be re-registered as a class 2 HGV if its not used under a bus operators O licence.
Thanks. I don’t really have a lot of precise info on the vehicle, other than it isn’t old enough to be driven as a historic bus on a car (cat B) licence.
Most double deckers I see weigh around 10 tons and I can’t see how you could remove 2.5 tons of bits and it still work.
I’ve seen photos of it and it looks like a typical decker, not a mini version that somebody’s built on a 7.5 chassis.
I suppose the question I really want a definite answer to is: Is it possible for a C1 licence holder to legally drive a vehicle which is taxed as a HGV (including private HGV or maybe even showmans haulage if that still exists) if it weighs over 7500kg?
If so, what other circumstances would have to be met?
A DD bus has a ULW of around 10500Kg and a show vehicle will be around the same (seats etc removed, and replaced with desks/PCs or in the case of the one i drive sometimes, boxes of goody bags and DJ equipment!)
as i understand it the rules are. REGARDLESS of how the vehicle is taxed it can be driven on a HGV class 2 (C) licence, the law states that a C licence holder can drive a bus as long as no passengers are Being carried HOWEVER for the vehicle to be driven on a bus (D) licence it has to be taxed as a bus! the grey are’s come in with regards to O licence’s ETC ETC… the one i drive is taxed as a PSV, but is O licence exempt (as it carries no goods or passengers), however others i have seen are taxed as PLG, and some are taxed as HGV!! Either way its CLEARLY not possible on a C1!!
the other gray area is tacho’s, I read they are exempt, but then i get told there not… hmmmm… I took no chances and asked them to retrofit one, just to be on the safeside!
NOW, it gets REALLY sketchy if your licence is over a certain age! as some people have “not for hire or reward” PSV licences, and if they are a PLG tax class, they can drive them too! although i would be VERY doubtful of being able to drive one on a C1!
the rules/laws ETC ETC for “special vehicles” as they are called are VERY VERY contradictory and unclear! (go google yourself) some are even classed as “showmans vehicles”!!
the flip side is, I have NEVER been stopped by VOSTAPO in the one i drive, and checked out! despite the fact its dayglo pink and only does 38MPH!!
heres a pic not driven her since last year, and i dont know whats happening with her
Thanks Bungle that is really interesting. Just to be clear, I do have the correct licence and experience to drive one of these, whatever it is registered as or taxed as. The company running it seem to think it can be driven by anyone with C1 including thoes who passed their car test before 97 and that they can therefore offer a stingy £7 per hour for ad-hoc casual work.
I might spend some time trying to persuade them to offer me more, but probably I’ll just leave them to it.
Hmm, do you reckon a dcpc would be needed for a show vehicle after September.
If the bus is less than 30 years old and is taxed as either a bus or PLG then a class D licence is required. If it is over 30 years old then it can be driven on a class B licence for non-commercial purposes and carrying eight or less passengers.
The law regarding licences changed a couple of times in the 80’s & 90’s.
Prior to 1987 you could drive a PSV, as they were called in those days, on car licence if no fares were charged.(I used to drive them from 1978-1987) Then it changed to requiring a class C licence and in 2000 it then required a class D as mentioned above.
When I bought my coach in 2002 it was 25 years old and until 2007 it required a class D licence to drive it, since then it is covered by a class B licence. As I bought it to take my test it wasn’t a problem.
With thanks to Bungle for pointing me in the right direction I have found the following information which I believe fits the vehicle in question, apparently it can be driven on a B licence but only for commercial purposes if that licence was acquired before 97.
Quoted from DVLA leaflet INF52
Mobile project vehicles. A vehicle which has a
Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) exceeding 3.5 tonnes,
whose primary purpose is to be used as a recreational,
educational or instructional facility when stationary, carrying:
mainly goods or burden consisting of play or
educational equipment and articles required in
connection with the use of such equipment, or
articles required for the purpose of display or of
an exhibition.
The vehicle must be constructed or adapted to carry not
more than eight persons in addition to the driver.
You must be aged 21 and have held a category B licence for
at least two years. A mobile project vehicle may only be driven
on behalf of a non-commercial organisation. If a driver passes
a (category B) car test before 1 January 1997 they may be
able to drive the vehicle commercially
dekka:
With thanks to Bungle for pointing me in the right direction I have found the following information which I believe fits the vehicle in question, apparently it can be driven on a B licence but only for commercial purposes if that licence was acquired before 97.
Quoted from DVLA leaflet INF52
Mobile project vehicles. A vehicle which has a
Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) exceeding 3.5 tonnes,
whose primary purpose is to be used as a recreational,
educational or instructional facility when stationary, carrying:
mainly goods or burden consisting of play or
educational equipment and articles required in
connection with the use of such equipment, or
articles required for the purpose of display or of
an exhibition.
The vehicle must be constructed or adapted to carry not
more than eight persons in addition to the driver.
You must be aged 21 and have held a category B licence for
at least two years. A mobile project vehicle may only be driven
on behalf of a non-commercial organisation. If a driver passes
a (category B) car test before 1 January 1997 they may be
able to drive the vehicle commercially
I have highlighted in red an important point that is certainly relevant to the bus i drive… boohoo.com is VERY much a commercial organisation!
the only way that it could be a “non commercial operation” is it if were local authority, statutory service, crown or charity use!
1st Jan 1997 is the date (i think) that DVLA stopped issuing 7.5t licence automatically, hence them advertising for 7.5t drivers!
like i said above, its a VERY, VERY gray area!
also (as an interesting aside) a lot of them mobile libraries and things are classed as Mobile project vehicles, and the person driving them usually is only on a car licence!
Category C licence holders can only drive a Category D vehicle which is less than 30 years old:
"If you hold a full category C (LGV) driving licence you
can also drive large buses as long as you have held
the licence for at least two years and the vehicle is:
damaged or faulty and being driven to a place to be
repaired, or is being road-tested after repair, and
is not used for carrying any person who is not connected
with repairing or road testing it."
A short wheelbase Routemaster officially weighs 7363kg unladen; reality is a little different.
So the company in question thinks it is worthwhile penny pinching to the extent of a few
pennies an hour so that they can potentially let someone with no experience of large vehicles
aim their expensive investment.
May they reap the rewards they deserve in that case.
There is a case going on in the European Court, brought I think in Denmark, relating to O licensing, hire and reward and in this particular case the use of a vehicle converted to carry a racing car, tools and equipment. The issue revolves around whether sponsorship money and prize money actually exceeds expenses. There is an advice leaflet from Vosa for the horsey fraternity which deals with some of this.
Oh the vehicle in question is certainly used for commercial purposes and the operator does appear to be penny pinching when it comes to finding a driver. I was asked if I would move the bus on Saturday, as the journey would have taken just under 1 hour they wanted to pay me 7 quid despite the fact it would have taken me a good 3 hours to get to it, move it and return home.
dekka:
I was asked if I would move the bus on Saturday, as the journey would have taken just under 1 hour they wanted to pay me 7 quid despite the fact it would have taken me a good 3 hours to get to it, move it and return home.
Then they’re taking the ■■■■.
Incidentally, I drove this double-decker bus on a promotional tour around 1997, unless the law has softened since then, you’d need an LGV C licence to drive it.
dekka:
I was asked if I would move the bus on Saturday, as the journey would have taken just under 1 hour they wanted to pay me 7 quid despite the fact it would have taken me a good 3 hours to get to it, move it and return home.
Then they’re taking the ■■■■.
Incidentally, I drove this double-decker bus on a promotional tour around 1997, unless the law has softened since then, you’d need an LGV C licence to drive it.
woo, MCW metrobus Harry!! I used to love these when i was at first
I have a D licence and currently do a job that involves driving a mini bus with 16 seats and towing a trailer that was made to carry 8 bicycles.I dont need an E licence because the trailer weight never exceeds 750 kg.A C licence holder can drive a bus in a voluntary capacity but not for financial gain.
not driven her since last year, and i dont know whats happening with her 
