Why is it common practice for haulage companies to give you a contract of employment with varied start times and NO finish time??? why are drivers signing this and allowing companies to abuse them and free to abuse other drivers??? this does not happen in any other business , the same haulage companies dont employ office staff, cleaners and accountants with a contracts T&Cs stating you “start when we say at different times, and finish when we say”. Yep we can drive for 9hrs in a day, but that dosnt mean they keep on a 12/13/14hr shift to accomplish that, the office staff do say 7am to 16.00pm, they could work 24hrs but never kept behind, and if they do over time its at a over time rate not a flat rate, and they get asked if they want to do over time, not presumed, given runs where the day is 12/13 hrs long.
These haulage companies not only mess and upend the drivers lifes-professional drivers who go out on the road every day at their risk and the company’s risk which they like to conveniently pass onto drivers so they are covered if things go wrong,whereupon the haulage companies receive thounds £ for delivery of items, and drivers get approx £15-£18 p.hr for the trouble. But for they also do something much worse-they ruin families/cause arguments and agro through missed time with the family because they think their profits are more important than the drivers family lives, so tell me, why do you think that they can go into OUR time without requesting or paying extra(after all they charge the customer extra for us doing over time/weekend)? why are drivers putting up with this? who is the mugg here?? £25 for a night out, thats the same as i got in the 1990’s it £2.50 p.hr to spend a night in your cab for 10hrs-less than min.wage for been on work property , which is classed as working, you save them costs by staying out, their profits go up and you get £25 + £5(a bacon baguette and coffee at Gregs) meal allowance-we get more money stacking shelves at tescos,no other work force in any other business accepts this (not even the NHS who are going on strike over this). We are professionals-we stand to to get massive fines/licence revoked so no lively hood even prison-they can just employ another driver-who stands up for us drivers? who’s the mug? Loyalty and respect goes 2 ways, the minute a driver accepts these T&C it condemns all drivers to accept them even if they want to or not.
The very nature of transport is that finish times can be open-ended due to unforeseen circumstances and simply for the reason of how far the destination is away and how long it actually takes to do a run.
What should be the case (and often isn’t) is that there should be a standard working day and any time the day extends over this should be paid at a decent overtime rate, such as time-and-a-half.
If drivers are being sufficiently compensated for all the time away, then they more are likely to put up with it and be reasonably happy.
As you say, the trouble is drivers are signing up to terms and conditions that are not very good and putting up with that.
Mixed feelings on this mate, …and I am usually the first to kick off and complain about mistreatment of drivers, and employers who take the ■■■■■
(Tbh if you say you have been in this game since the 90s, I fail to see how you do not know the answer to your own question.)
I’m assuming you are referring to day shifts or nights rather than tramping btw.
Firstly I will just say basically the job and its general t.s and c.s, is crap I accept that, and I have done for a long time.
Hate to say it though mate,most of the stuff you mention is the absolute nature of the job personified…especially undefined finish times.
This is due to unknown quantities, and unpredictable circumstances, such as…
How long you are made to wait and tip/load.
Unpredictable traffic.
General hold ups.
Adverse weather conditions…to name a few.
So virtually impossible to have a strict set finish time like other jobs.
Fact is it has always been like that, and more than likely always will be…and most guys know this before they go into the job.
On the other side of the coin, firms aint going to buy twice as many vehicles just so they can keep drivers on 8 hour shifts, when they can virtually do 1 and a half to 2 with one truck…broadly speaking.
I think you will find (and I am sure you know this) that most gen haul jobs are 12 hour day plus, and just because drivers expect and accept that, does not mean they are mugs.
Ok, maybe expecting them to absolute max out with minimal rests every week, without fail, is maybe different, and they could be in fact mugs for putting up with it.
I am with you on overtime rates that should be paid after 8 hours, but are mostly not…again though, all discussed and accepted prior to accepting a job.
As for tramping, it is virtually impossible to have a strict start/finish time for what I would think are obvious reasons.
Long hours…, yeah they are, but I just tend to work as long as I want, and only do an excess of 12 hours when it suits me.
Night out subsistence, (that is what it is…not an hourly rate.)
Yeah it could/should be more, and like you I was on a higher rate 15 + years ago working for the foreigners, than what I am on now…but what I get covers a good evening meal and sometimes a pint.
I aint saying the job is great, nor in fact even ideal, in fact it is quite unique in a lot of cases.
Best way to deal with all the crap is just look after yourself, do what is best for you, and what suits you…and f.everybody else, because they sure as hell will not back you up if push comes to shove.
Best not to get into it at all (as I told my 2 lads) than know and accept ehat you are getting into, then find out that the recognised way of doing the job, aint fir you after all.
Could be worse, could work for R T Keedwell and get £15ph drive time & £12ph for all other work.
You could also ask why is it common practice for drivers to not only agee to, but aggressively defend their “right” to, work 15 hour days with bare minimum legal breaks and rests?
Because there’s always someone else who will do it if you don’t.
No Union = no bargaining power. Therefore poor working conditions will continue.
Aye, Life of Riley for those that run a haulage company 
@robroy how many of your Ferraris and Maseratis did you keep from your days running your own transport outfit?
Haulage runs on tiny profit margins with massive overheads, and companies are going to the wall at a rate of knots hardly seen before - almost 500 in 2023 alone.
Basically to earn a better standard of living, even when not getting time and half.
You won’t get the same hours in tesco packing shelfs
Cost of transport is very competitive, if it was increased to treat drivers like humans the ripple effect hits the Cost of everyday living and other things.
Unfortunately with no unity in any form it will never change
Doing the job and not accepting that can eat away at you making the job harder
It’s when you start comparing this job to other jobs you kind of go off track
At one time it was a flat day rate and hours were never discussed
Every driver on the planet understands that we can be delayed, at drop-off point, collection points, road works, diversions etc etc- (life on the road)no one is disputing this. And all of this should be taken into account by the planners and the daily run adjusted to reflect this-not planned in regardless, after all haulage companies insist on us waiting only 20mins at drop-off/collection points then call them. If the planners need items dropping off/collecting and the driver has done his normal working day like any other business employees, then they should ask us, or organise a late/night shift to take over-not just take for granted we will stay for it- to fill their unrealistic plans.
At the end of the day, our life balance/quality revolves around good/bad planners-after all they dont stay behind for 12/13hrs on a flat rate.
Has for tramping-why are drivers still accepting to do it for £25 & £5 meal allowance, my 18yr old sleeps over at a retirement home for £80, for sleeping-she is on the company property and therefore classed AT work, we are no different just because we drive and stay in a wagon over night.
Drivers need to put their foot down with the inept planners who in most cases get bonuses for the amount of wkly/mthly deliveries been done so will push us-so in retrospect, their £ also depends on us, thats why they get upset when we return, pull our card, pack up and refuse to go back out at the last minute on some delivery they forgot about.
Dont get me wrong, more and more companies are offering drivers a sort of work/life balance, with decent hrs and home time,more in line with normal business practice as they know its the only way to keep drivers, (but a lot still dont} the sort of balance one can actually tell the missus you will be going to that anniversary dinner in 1 wks time.
We should have a drivers blacklist of companies who abuse their drivers and their loyalty/work ethics. Time we came into the next century. Drivers control their own destiny not inept planners
if haulage are running at a loss and going bankrupt-thats their problem, rubbish business plans, why should they charge customers then fleece drivers by working them more and not telling them?? they need sort themselves out, like Richi Sunack said in lock-down-“if their not sustainable they dont deserve to not to go under”, if they are making so little-then where are all the bosses/owners, because they arnt in the office working round the clock trying to make it work (like us) they are in their detached house with 2/3 cars figuring out how to increase their profits-not with a better business model good for all-but by trying to come up with new plans to save from the running cost/ drivers: less pay/flat rates for overtime/not asking them to do overtime but planning for them to do it/telematics bonuses failure/overspeeding fines/not keeping up with their in-house training-and anything else their minds can come up with.
Has for prices on the street going up-look around its already happening ,wait for your next water bill, ours isnt keeping up
It all depends what the contract states what you can be asked to do. If you are past what would be considered a normal working day and you weren’t told about going back out, don’t go back out.
Vote with your feet. Simple. Don’t agree with it then don’t do it. Nobody holds a gun to a drivers head.
It’s possible to find truck driving jobs that have more or less fixed start and finish times.
I did night trunking for around 15 years on that basis.Start around 8pm finish around 6.Also job and finish which was great doing direct trunking before limiters.
There are other types of jobs like local building materials deliveries which are governed by the opening and closing times of the merchant.But will still probably mean 7am start 6 pm finish times.
General haulage all bets are off some customers will want their collections/deliveries early morning some afternoon or evening.
The job I do now delivering cars can mean being called in at short notice sometimes same day.Sometimes early starts and early finish.Sometimes late starts late finish.Sometimes nights out hotel stops.
Shifts and shift times have never really bothered me.
But the ‘other duties’ issue is a can of worms and a totally different matter.To the point where it’s possible that the job can involve more so called ‘other duties’ than driving.
The problem occures when company’s advertised with eg-£45k p.yr but when you join it’s only possible to get that if they don’t prevent your salary been deducted via all the other rubbish excuses and doing their expected working max time, or when they point out that the contract states eg 48hrs a week , but a clause states drivers are expected to do what ever the company needs are, the biggest red flag is when they use the word “flexible”- this basically means " we don’t plan or take into consideration of your needs, so dont plan and expect a home life"
What’s the point of a contract if they state in one clause your working hrs, then in another clause stating we are expected to do whatever)whenever for the company needs"? Better been with an agency then just walk off if they break your contract.
As a driver our job is to safely and legally driven from A to B and deliver the product in good /undamaged condition, anything above that is more pay- driver & labourer, driver & loader, driver & office planner (because those in the office can’t do their job)- extra pay just like driver/ hiab,moffett etc.
If we did our job as bad as the office staff we would be constantly in RTA, vehicle breaking down and products never getting delivered intact
The only way round it is for drivers to demand a maximum limit at which demand to continue becomes optional, albeit still within legal restraints.
In other words if, say, you have an agreed X hour day but there are unavoidable delays leaving you away from base, the company can request a return to base but will accept it if you refuse and opt for a night out.
Never going to happen because drivers are drivers because thay are the sort of people who like to work alone and thus, are almost impossible to organise in the same way that other workers, always together in the same place, are organised.
I was shop steward at Econofreight Leicester depot during the only, to my knowledge, national drivers’ strike in, I think, 1970 and a gradual rolling wildcat strike started in various areas of the country. The main Union, TGWU refused to give a lead saying that their constitution was regional not national so saved them making a decision. We had a vote, more than one in fact, at Leicester and, in common with all other Leicester firms and depots, voted not to strike which put us at Econofreight in general, and me in particular, in the way of extreme pressure from the main company work force in the NE.
In the end, we did strike, and, as I and most of my mates suspected, got no advantage out of doing so. But by that time many wildcatters had been out for a long time and were exhausted so they began drifitng back to work while all of us who opposed the strike, were left as the only ones still on strike. Totally bizarre.
I would have thought it was quite simple. The job has varying start and finish times, always has, always will. If you’ve been in the industry for the amount of time you seem to imply you will have realised this. Want fixed start/finish times? Get a different job that offers one. Stacking shelves seems to be a popular one. Most don’t mind start finish times being a couple of hours different per day.
Night outs? Get a job with no night outs if you dont want it. It’s a rest period, you can do what you want. You’re getting £25 towards your expenses, it’s not a wage. You’re not a security guard. You’re not sleeping in a care home getting woken up 7 times a night because Mrs Miggins needs a ■■■■■ You’re not working.
Yep, that’s about it, and if you think you ARE being treated unfairly for whatever reason, tell THEM, not everyone in the yard unfortunate enough to have to listen…or on here for that matter.
Tbf there are more important and relavant issues of pi55 taking, unfairness, and generally being treated and talked to like schoolkids (if you are daft enough to let them that is ) in this cluster ■■■■ of an industry, than not having a standard finishing time.
It is how you make things better for yourself, (or at least try to) that is the way to deal with all the crap, as I keep saying.
Or if you want a job with fixed hours in your contract within transport, get a TM CPC and become a transport manager. Get paid a lower rate than a driver, and just because your contract says 9-5 Mon to Fri dont assume that that’s it. And if you think being a driver is stressful and there is loads of responsibility, then try being a TM. Heaps more of both!
Most jobs within this industry are long unsociable irregular hours, whether you’re the owner, TM, planner, driver, brewer upper. Actually like most jobs, including shelf stacking.
Adverts say all that because some people will believe them and apply .they paint the job as being easy anda bed of roses earn £50 k plus a year.
So you take the job then realise it’s not as advertised.
but then your kinda stuck there as like anyone else you have bills mortgage to pay so can’t afford to walk out .
So untill you find something else your stuck there.
But the catch is you can’t find anything else as your working all week and if you do happen to get an interview your unable to go as be to busy working not able take time off of finish early to go.
It’s a vicious circle
Only jobs really with set hours are hiab work for builders merchants.
But even then your expected to work every Saturday morning and it’s worked out so you just get your 45 hours off before starting again Monday moring.
Why it can’t be simpler and weekly rest 48 (2 full days) is beyond me really
I realize this post (and thread) are over 2 years old but 1st I find it hilarious that in late 2024 £15 per hour is still considered decent pay, £18 is top end this after years with inflation record high
2nd to Robroy’s points specifically delivery waiting times, this could be easily solved if the transport company says ok you have 45 mins to tip anything under full load, 1hr30mins to tip a full load, anything over that you’re getting charged for redelivery or £50 per hour waiting but they won’t do it because another one will come along and not impose such conditions…When you have a booking time if you’re early they can send you away, if you’re late they can send you away, if you’re on time they can make you wait for hours
This is why most big transport firms (Maritime, DHL, Culina etc.) are all fixed hours per week so they don’t have to pay drivers overtime
Adverse weather, really, when was the last time you were delayed due to this? Traffic etc. happen but maybe 1 hour a day total delay if you drive peak times in urban areas/M-ways. From my experience 90% of the delays (occurance and duration) are caused by own company planning/warehouse staff or customers taking the psss
Thing is lot of places have charges in there terms of carriage .for waiting over a set time to get loaded uloaded etc.
But they choose not to force it in fear of losing the contract or getting further work
You react to my mention of adverse weather delays as if I have said something ridiculous.
Have you never been stuck in snow?
Have you never pulled an empty high trailer in a heavy gale?..both causing delays.
In answer to your question, the last time I pulled over in a gale and was delayed was last year, and snow…a couple of years ago.