Could one of the more knowledgable members help please with the following.
A driver has cat D on their licence but has code 78 (restricted to auto)
They also have D1 with 101 (not for hire or reward)
Where do they stand driving a manual 16 seater for reward?
The definition of the D is ANY passenger vehicle over 8 seats. The D1 has no restrictions on type of gearbox, so can the vehicle be driven using a combination of both categories?
Example - the D for the hire/reward element and the D1 for the manual gearbox?
I know it a bit like having your cake and eating it but is it a defendable argument in defence of a prosecution?
The driver would be driving the minibus on his D entitlement as that has no 101 (hire and reward) restriction. But he cant drive a manual minibus as the same entitlement has the 78 (auto only) restriction. Good try though!
Trubster - It’s not me but a friend (my D1 is unrestricted) he has his full 35 hours and DCPC card already.
Peter - Thankyou. It’s all a bit irreverent as it was for a non profit making company so that falls within the definition of the 101 restriction. It was just a question about the situation should it have been a journey that was for reward.
Silly that the DVLA will acknowledge he can drive a manual mini bus and drive anything over 8 seats (legal definition of cat D) but not a combination of the two. I would have thought the D would superceed the D1 the same way my manual C removed the automatic restriction from my D category.
One last point - if the D1 is has the 101 restriction because of only an automatic D, then why is the D1 not issued with the same 78 restriction but no 101 restriction?
As above… DVLA mistake. To have D they must have taken a proper test, hence that should remove a 101 restriction on the D1 if I’m not up the wrong tree? You only normally see 101 when D1 or C1 is the highest entitlement on the licence, as anything above overrides it.
If its not a ■■■■ up, he can drive a small manual for fun, but can drive any auto for work.
Just had another thought… Gearbox requirements are different for a manual D1/C1 to D/C. The X1’s only require 5/6 gears but the C/D manual requires 12, so having a manual at C1/D1 wouldn’t allow a manual above that as you’ve never demonstrated yourself with a 12s or more box.
Race Trucker:
Just had another thought… Gearbox requirements are different for a manual D1/C1 to D/C. The X1’s only require 5/6 gears but the C/D manual requires 12, so having a manual at C1/D1 wouldn’t allow a manual above that as you’ve never demonstrated yourself with a 12s or more box.
Which goes back to my original question - it’s recognised he can drive a 16 seater with a manual gearbox (D1) and its recognised he can carry passengers for hire/reward (D) so why can’t he carry passengers for H/R in a 16 seater?
There are changes being made to the gearbox requirements in training vehicles.At the moment you can do a C test with 4 over 4 range change.,thats 8 gears in total.
Like I said- sounds like a ■■■■ up- your logic sounds good, but I’m much less hot on PCV laws than LGV. It may be he can only drive for hire and reward in an auto, as part of the vocational test is providing a smooth ride with a manual. Mabey that’s BS, but phone DVLA and question it as it sounds like a balls up unles there is some technical reason like my guess above.
alamcculloch:
There are changes being made to the gearbox requirements in training vehicles.At the moment you can do a C test with 4 over 4 range change.,thats 8 gears in total.
But a D1 manual still wouldn’t have that would it? I think my 12s thing was for C…
Just called DVLA and a pre 1997 C1 manual does not upgrade D1 auto to manual
Had the C1 been gained by passing a DSA test which covered that category then it will do
There are proposals in the pipeline to upgrade all autos to manual if the driver has passed any test, including car test, in a manual and if brought in they will be retrospective … bet thats a few years away from happening as it would need a few changes in the UK laws
Race Trucker:
It may be he can only drive for hire and reward in an auto, as part of the vocational test is providing a smooth ride with a manual.
That was the only reason I could think of (unless DVLA oversight)
That leads to the question why not make the D1 a code 78 and not 101? Looks like a call to Swansea after all
Race Trucker:
As above… DVLA mistake. To have D they must have taken a proper test, hence that should remove a 101 restriction on the D1 if I’m not up the wrong tree? You only normally see 101 when D1 or C1 is the highest entitlement on the licence, as anything above overrides it.
If its not a ■■■■ up, he can drive a small manual for fun, but can drive any auto for work.
The reason for this I think is that if a driver ‘loses’ his vocational entitlement to drive Cat. D (maybe his medical is not renewed, or not passed - for instance) he could still drive minibuses - not for hire & reward (restriction 101). I think that makes sense■■?
Whilst he holds Cat D. he may still drive auto. minibuses (restriction 78) for hire & reward.
Rog, sorry for any confusion but my friend doesn’t have C on his licence just the D and D1. I was using myself as an example of the manual/auto ‘upgrade’ when passing a manual C test (cat D 1999 cat C 2004)
m1cks:
Rog, sorry for any confusion but my friend doesn’t have C on his licence just the D and D1. I was using myself as an example of the manual/auto ‘upgrade’ when passing a manual C test (cat D 1999 cat C 2004)
I was not confused by what you wrote in the first post
You mentioned the driver had a D1 101 which meant that they must also have a pre 1997 LGV C1 manual
Passing auto D also gives auto D1 without the 101
Passing a DSA LGV manual test will upgrade any comparable auto D test no matter in which order it is done
Passing the DSA manual C test will upgrade both auto D and D1 to manuals
Passing the DSA manual C1 test will upgrade only the auto D1 to manual and not the D
Having a manual C1 without passing the DSA test for that category (or a C test which inludes C1) will not upgrade
