I think your head is so far up your arse that no matter what people say who do the job you’ll never listen have a good night
You could run on fresh air a train to move 200 boxes will beat you on economy of scale to move boxes over a set fixed route. Road wins on flexibility. However I realize this is a waste of my time typing as the nealy man of British transport will tell us how we are wrong.
kr79:
You could run on fresh air a train to move 200 boxes will beat you on economy of scale to move boxes over a set fixed route. Road wins on flexibility. However I realize this is a waste of my time typing as the nealy man of British transport will tell us how we are wrong.
I realise that this is a waste of my time typing with such an ironic situation of more support for the rail freight industry on a truck forum than I’ve ever heard even from the rail freight industry itself. 
Unless the customers are all at the rail head it’s not going to be a fixed route.Which is why there has been such a thing as the long haul sector of the British road transport industry,for the government to need a policy of switching road freight from,over to rail.As I’ve said the trading environment ( should be as in any other type of market ) one of competition between the modes which would mean getting rid of road fuel taxation or equalising it between road and rail if not and allowing LHV’s to run throughout europe.Assuming that even with that the rail freight industry could still beat the long haul sector of the road transport industry then that would be fair competition and the rail freight industry would have nothing to worry about and therefore no objections to any of that.Yeah right.
One
I agree with you a lot of it is political bs like when they dredged the canals in east London and all the spoil from the Olympic site and all the aggregates been used were going to leave and arrive by canal. I think the first load did for camera then it was the good old 8 wheel tipper to the rescue.
The train will never beat a truck on flexibility that’s fact. But a container takes weeks to get here felixstowe especially is hampered by poor road connections the a14 should have been a motorway years ago. So a train taking containers to half a dozen inland terminals isn’t changing things much unless you are based round the ports.
Containers has been a notoriously hard game to make money in for hauliers for years. The work is changing its just a case of adapting With the times.
You are comparing chalk with cheese again, of course the rail industry do not pay road fuel excise duty, they do not use the roads, they use their own infrastructure which they design, build, and maintain.
The ships do not pay fuel duty as they use the waterways and seaways, they pay to enter the ports and use the berths.
So the rail freight operators aren’t paying uk taxes in the sense of road fuel taxes which truck operators/customers,like other road fuel users,are paying.
You also forget the economies of scale, quite surprisingly after wanting to run an ELV on your pinprick chosen and untried routes.
your mention of drivers having to tranship, load, shovel the load on and off for nothing, you are being paid to move the load, not sit in the cab while someone else does the work. That is my road transport industry!
You really need to visit Europe and see how a true intermodal system works, almost every factory entrance also has a rail entrance and a siding, yet there are still lorries loading in and out. However that will never happen here because we do not have that facility and neither do the end users. The greens and lefties can call for freight to go back on rail as much as they want, it cannot happen, what we can do is learn to work well together.
That pretty much sums it up.
Wheel Nut:
You are comparing chalk with cheese again, of course the rail industry do not pay road fuel excise duty, they do not use the roads, they use their own infrastructure which they design, build, and maintain.The ships do not pay fuel duty as they use the waterways and seaways, they pay to enter the ports and use the berths.
So the rail freight operators aren’t paying uk taxes in the sense of road fuel taxes which truck operators/customers,like other road fuel users,are paying.
You also forget the economies of scale, quite surprisingly after wanting to run an ELV on your pinprick chosen and untried routes.
your mention of drivers having to tranship, load, shovel the load on and off for nothing, you are being paid to move the load, not sit in the cab while someone else does the work. That is my road transport industry!
You really need to visit Europe and see how a true intermodal system works, almost every factory entrance also has a rail entrance and a siding, yet there are still lorries loading in and out. However that will never happen here because we do not have that facility and neither do the end users. The greens and lefties can call for freight to go back on rail as much as they want, it cannot happen, what we can do is learn to work well together.
The fact is diesel engined road vehicle fuel taxation has always just been used as a way of piling more costs onto road transport to provide an artificial competitive advantage to the rail freight industry.On top of which is vehicle excise duty.Those taxes exceed anything which is spent on roads and just go into the general tax take.Every time a container or trailer load goes by rail that is a loss to the tax take and just acts as a way to avoid tax in order to make rail freight more economically viable than it really is.Which is effectively an anti competitive subsidy which would be illegal in any other industry.Trucks only need to cover their contribution to the roads they use nothing more and there’s no more reason as to why road vehicle users should need to pay any form of tax on their fuel just like any other type of transport.
As for transhipping loads between rail and road by hand that was just an example of the situation of the road transport industry in the early 20th century.However the general case,that the short haul sector of the road transport industry,was and always will be viewed as something to be taken advantage of,by the rail freight industry,while competition with the long haul sector is viewed as competition that the rail freight industry needs to be protected from,will always apply and needs to be fought off by the road transport industry.
Which is why the rail freight industry is all for intermodal but fights tooth and nail against the long haul sector of the road transport industry because,contrary to all the economies of scale bs of road v rail,given a level playing field,the rail freight industry knows that it would lose against that sector.
It makes no difference where it is the road transport industry isn’t there to work ‘together’ with the rail freight industry.The fact is they are,and always will both be,competitors often for the same share of the transport market.All the present bs issues,concerning so called ‘integrated transport’,and the use of anti competitive government policies in favour of the rail freight industry,go against that fact and aren’t in the long term interests of the road transport industry whatsoever.
Carryfast:
Which is why the rail freight industry is all for intermodal but fights tooth and nail against the long haul sector of the road transport industry because,contrary to all the economies of scale bs of road v rail,given a level playing field,the rail freight industry knows that it would lose against that sector.It makes no difference where it is the road transport industry isn’t there to work ‘together’ with the rail freight industry.The fact is they are,and always will both be,competitors often for the same share of the transport market.All the present bs issues,concerning so called ‘integrated transport’,and the use of anti competitive government policies in favour of the rail freight industry,go against that fact and aren’t in the long term interests of the road transport industry whatsoever.
You have to decide what you mean before typing, your rambles go around in circles. The transport industry exists to move a commodity for a profit. The commodity producers agree to pay a part of their profits/costs to the transport industry.
The transport office of a new manufacturer gets a production report, they need 1000 tonnes of steel coils delivered before they can start work. They need a new cutting machine and a fork lift truck. They also need some empty pallets. Common sense would suggest that a train could carry the 1000 tonnes of steel from Italy up to Manchester. The cutting machine cannot be found in the UK because the Unions have made it impossible to compete with the EU. That is coming from Germany on a lorry and the Japanese forklift is being delivered from the local depot tomorrow morning.
The road vehicle is sat in the yard or tramping up the Route du Solei, either way it is costing road tax 365 days per year. It only pays fuel duty when it is moving, when it is earning, when it ideally makes a profit too.
For the factory it has cost less money to get the steel delivered to Manchester than the empty pallets and the cutting machine. The steel is on call off in a local warehouse and the local haulier has agreed to bring it in with 1 hours notice. In return he has been given all the distribution from the factory. They are looking at 240 deliveries to their own outlets. Would you choose a 44 tonne artic, a train or a mixed fleet?
Do you take your household rubbish to the wheelie bin in your car, by cycle or taxi?
On Sunday I will be mostly eating roast pork, carrots, cabbage and potatoes and would like a nice apple crumble to go with it. I don’t care how the ingredients get here, I don’t even care that they will be sharing the same space in the oven. All I care about is that everything gets here, on time and is ready at 2pm
I imagine you would have been a fantastic luddite or involved in beard chopping attacks on the amish.
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
Which is why the rail freight industry is all for intermodal but fights tooth and nail against the long haul sector of the road transport industry because,contrary to all the economies of scale bs of road v rail,given a level playing field,the rail freight industry knows that it would lose against that sector.It makes no difference where it is the road transport industry isn’t there to work ‘together’ with the rail freight industry.The fact is they are,and always will both be,competitors often for the same share of the transport market.All the present bs issues,concerning so called ‘integrated transport’,and the use of anti competitive government policies in favour of the rail freight industry,go against that fact and aren’t in the long term interests of the road transport industry whatsoever.
You have to decide what you mean before typing, your rambles go around in circles. The transport industry exists to move a commodity for a profit. The commodity producers agree to pay a part of their profits/costs to the transport industry.
The transport office of a new manufacturer gets a production report, they need 1000 tonnes of steel coils delivered before they can start work. They need a new cutting machine and a fork lift truck. They also need some empty pallets. Common sense would suggest that a train could carry the 1000 tonnes of steel from Italy up to Manchester. The cutting machine cannot be found in the UK because the Unions have made it impossible to compete with the EU. That is coming from Germany on a lorry and the Japanese forklift is being delivered from the local depot tomorrow morning.
The road vehicle is sat in the yard or tramping up the Route du Solei, either way it is costing road tax 365 days per year. It only pays fuel duty when it is moving, when it is earning, when it ideally makes a profit too.
For the factory it has cost less money to get the steel delivered to Manchester than the empty pallets and the cutting machine. The steel is on call off in a local warehouse and the local haulier has agreed to bring it in with 1 hours notice. In return he has been given all the distribution from the factory. They are looking at 240 deliveries to their own outlets. Would you choose a 44 tonne artic, a train or a mixed fleet?
Do you take your household rubbish to the wheelie bin in your car, by cycle or taxi?
On Sunday I will be mostly eating roast pork, carrots, cabbage and potatoes and would like a nice apple crumble to go with it. I don’t care how the ingredients get here, I don’t even care that they will be sharing the same space in the oven. All I care about is that everything gets here, on time and is ready at 2pm
I imagine you would have been a fantastic luddite or involved in beard chopping attacks on the amish.
Whatever.
Regardless of all that in view of your obvious knowledge of the intermodal road/rail sector of the transport industry,just answer the following questions.
-
Would the rail freight industry object to LHV’s being allowed to do long haul work throughout Europe if any road transport operator chooses to use them.
.Yes or no.If yes why . -
Would the rail freight industry object to road fuel duty and VAT on that duty being removed
.Yes or no.If yes why .
Angus25:
I’m sorry to say we will never agree I run a truck on container work and it pays and I’d rather a British train take a load then a bloody forien truck and if the pole could under cut the rail industry after 2014 when cabotage is supposed to end the we will have to get militant and make there jobs hell remember only the strong survive
What you suggest? Biting? Smashing windows, lights and mirrors? Slashing tires? Keying the bodywork?
That would be quick then, half of British militiant truckers in jail, others still in the job can’t compete on the cost, due to high taxes they will have to pay to keep the other half locked in… 
Have you ever actually considered COMPETING? There is still plenty of British and Irish companies that go over the water, and they somehow manage to keep afloat despite this huge competition. Ask Simon, Switchlogic or other people on this forum if you don’t believe me, but to me they don’t seem to be complaining too much about their working conditions.
Cabbotage laws are supposed to be scrapped when the salaries and running cost in Western and Eastern Europe will be about even. It’s already happening, read this forum, many people recently wrote that Polish drivers who used to work with them went back home. Do you think they are all idiots and they decided “No, I am fed up with that earning decent British wage, from now on I want to work for 20 pounds per week again, I am going home” suddenly? No, they came back, as in Poland now a good truck driver can earn a decent wage now.
Yes, influx of Eastern Europeans shaked your transport industry, that is true and (despite what Harry Monk imputes me on numerous occasions) I never denied it. But this is not the ONLY problem that British Haulage industry have to face…
One problem that needs attention is for example tendence to lightly blame Eastern Europeans for everything. I happen to work for the company to which Polish companies are the biggest competition and I see enourmous amounts of money wasted on stupid things. But noone is doing nothing about it, yet I hear it all the time “Poles are killing us, they drive too cheap”. And actually (at least in that bit of market I happen to be familiar with) if they stop sitting around and complain about Poles and look into their businesses to see what they could improve, they would be able to compete as equals already.
Carryfast:
Whatever.Regardless of all that in view of your obvious knowledge of the intermodal road/rail sector of the transport industry,just answer the following questions.
Would the rail freight industry object to LHV’s being allowed to do long haul work throughout Europe if any road transport operator chooses to use them.
Would the rail freight industry object to road fuel duty and VAT on that duty being removed
For those answers you would need to ask your spokesman, your support group or your MP
I am still looking for the subsidies and protectionism you keep banging on about. But one thing is correct, yes I have used the railways to move freight. I have collected an urgent load from the terminal and had it delivered quicker than it could have been lifted by road. I have put my vehicle on a train and travelled through the night when other vehicles could not move.
Several of us on this forum and others have worked the terminals for a week or a month about, much like travelling to Felixstowe on a Sunday to collect a trailer and work out of the south all week.
Bertschi have made millions of pounds using the railways, and they have made it work in every other country than their own.
Carryfast you seem to have an obsession with trains. Wouldn’t your parents let you have a train set as a kid or something
orys:
Angus25:
I’m sorry to say we will never agree I run a truck on container work and it pays and I’d rather a British train take a load then a bloody forien truck and if the pole could under cut the rail industry after 2014 when cabotage is supposed to end the we will have to get militant and make there jobs hell remember only the strong surviveWhat you suggest? Biting? Smashing windows, lights and mirrors? Slashing tires? Keying the bodywork?
That would be quick then, half of British militiant truckers in jail, others still in the job can’t compete on the cost, due to high taxes they will have to pay to keep the other half locked in…
Have you ever actually considered COMPETING? There is still plenty of British and Irish companies that go over the water, and they somehow manage to keep afloat despite this huge competition. Ask Simon, Switchlogic or other people on this forum if you don’t believe me, but to me they don’t seem to be complaining too much about their working conditions.
Cabbotage laws are supposed to be scrapped when the salaries and running cost in Western and Eastern Europe will be about even. It’s already happening, read this forum, many people recently wrote that Polish drivers who used to work with them went back home. Do you think they are all idiots and they decided “No, I am fed up with that earning decent British wage, from now on I want to work for 20 pounds per week again, I am going home” suddenly? No, they came back, as in Poland now a good truck driver can earn a decent wage now.
Yes, influx of Eastern Europeans shaked your transport industry, that is true and (despite what Harry Monk imputes me on numerous occasions) I never denied it. But this is not the ONLY problem that British Haulage industry have to face…
One problem that needs attention is for example tendence to lightly blame Eastern Europeans for everything. I happen to work for the company to which Polish companies are the biggest competition and I see enourmous amounts of money wasted on stupid things. But noone is doing nothing about it, yet I hear it all the time “Poles are killing us, they drive too cheap”. And actually (at least in that bit of market I happen to be familiar with) if they stop sitting around and complain about Poles and look into their businesses to see what they could improve, they would be able to compete as equals already.
You’ll find you don’t have to damage trucks or get violent but you can block ports in and out you can block wagons from moving but foreign trucks will never under cut the trains
The thing is we can not compete with forine trucks on the fact that they have large fuel tanks using cheap fuel
orys:
Angus25:
I’m sorry to say we will never agree I run a truck on container work and it pays and I’d rather a British train take a load then a bloody forien truck and if the pole could under cut the rail industry after 2014 when cabotage is supposed to end the we will have to get militant and make there jobs hell remember only the strong surviveWhat you suggest? Biting? Smashing windows, lights and mirrors? Slashing tires? Keying the bodywork?
That would be quick then, half of British militiant truckers in jail, others still in the job can’t compete on the cost, due to high taxes they will have to pay to keep the other half locked in…
Have you ever actually considered COMPETING? There is still plenty of British and Irish companies that go over the water, and they somehow manage to keep afloat despite this huge competition. Ask Simon, Switchlogic or other people on this forum if you don’t believe me, but to me they don’t seem to be complaining too much about their working conditions.
Cabbotage laws are supposed to be scrapped when the salaries and running cost in Western and Eastern Europe will be about even. It’s already happening, read this forum, many people recently wrote that Polish drivers who used to work with them went back home. Do you think they are all idiots and they decided “No, I am fed up with that earning decent British wage, from now on I want to work for 20 pounds per week again, I am going home” suddenly? No, they came back, as in Poland now a good truck driver can earn a decent wage now.
On ‘this’ issue I’d agree with you orys.No surprise that the intermodal sector of the road transport industry is diverting attention from the real issue which is the one of competition between the long haul sector of the road transport industry and the rail freight industry.Their issue is all about supporting protectionist policies for the rail freight industry ( because it obviously benefits those in the intermodal sector of the road transport industry ) against both the long haul sectors of the east european ‘and’ the British road transport industries.
The intermodal sector are actually saying,that they want to see as much freight as possible being transferred from road to rail,just so they can get their few miles worth of work at the end of the freight journey.In most cases it’s the idiotic British government’s bias,towards rail transport,at the expense of long haul road transport,that caused much of the situation,which wrecked much of the long haul/international sector of the British road transport industry before EU enlargement even took place.
IE the issue of our government wanting to tax the British long haul fleet off the road,in order to provide rail freight with an adavantage,is nothing new and started years ago with the Thatcher government.No surprise that she was one of the supporters of the Channel Tunnel rail link for it’s implications for the big business european rail freight industry.
Angus25:
orys:
Angus25:
I’m sorry to say we will never agree I run a truck on container work and it pays and I’d rather a British train take a load then a bloody forien truck and if the pole could under cut the rail industry after 2014 when cabotage is supposed to end the we will have to get militant and make there jobs hell remember only the strong surviveWhat you suggest? Biting? Smashing windows, lights and mirrors? Slashing tires? Keying the bodywork?
That would be quick then, half of British militiant truckers in jail, others still in the job can’t compete on the cost, due to high taxes they will have to pay to keep the other half locked in…
Have you ever actually considered COMPETING? There is still plenty of British and Irish companies that go over the water, and they somehow manage to keep afloat despite this huge competition. Ask Simon, Switchlogic or other people on this forum if you don’t believe me, but to me they don’t seem to be complaining too much about their working conditions.
Cabbotage laws are supposed to be scrapped when the salaries and running cost in Western and Eastern Europe will be about even. It’s already happening, read this forum, many people recently wrote that Polish drivers who used to work with them went back home. Do you think they are all idiots and they decided “No, I am fed up with that earning decent British wage, from now on I want to work for 20 pounds per week again, I am going home” suddenly? No, they came back, as in Poland now a good truck driver can earn a decent wage now.
Yes, influx of Eastern Europeans shaked your transport industry, that is true and (despite what Harry Monk imputes me on numerous occasions) I never denied it. But this is not the ONLY problem that British Haulage industry have to face…
One problem that needs attention is for example tendence to lightly blame Eastern Europeans for everything. I happen to work for the company to which Polish companies are the biggest competition and I see enourmous amounts of money wasted on stupid things. But noone is doing nothing about it, yet I hear it all the time “Poles are killing us, they drive too cheap”. And actually (at least in that bit of market I happen to be familiar with) if they stop sitting around and complain about Poles and look into their businesses to see what they could improve, they would be able to compete as equals already.
You’ll find you don’t have to damage trucks or get violent but you can block ports in and out you can block wagons from moving but foreign trucks will never under cut the trains
The thing is we can not compete with forine trucks on the fact that they have large fuel tanks using cheap fuel
Yet more hypocritical bs.When it comes to cheap untaxed fuel it’s the rail freight industry which gets the most benefit from that being that every rail freight journey is subject to that advantage.While all european road journeys are subject to road fuel taxation to a certain level dependent on local taxation policies.You obviously don’t seem to have any issues when it’s the train using untaxed fuel to put British trucks off the road when it suits you.
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
Whatever.Regardless of all that in view of your obvious knowledge of the intermodal road/rail sector of the transport industry,just answer the following questions.
Would the rail freight industry object to LHV’s being allowed to do long haul work throughout Europe if any road transport operator chooses to use them.
Would the rail freight industry object to road fuel duty and VAT on that duty being removed
For those answers you would need to ask your spokesman, your support group or your MP
I am still looking for the subsidies and protectionism you keep banging on about.
Why would I need to ask anyone who agrees with me or my MP a question directed at the rail freight industry which obviously mean that the answer would need to be provided by the rail freight industry.
By the way here’s a clue.Ironically the government and the rail freight industry don’t seem to share kr’s etc view in regards to the superiority of the economies of scale of the rail freight industry v road given a more level playing field.
commercialmotor.com/big-lorr … e-house-of
As for looking for subsidies given to the rail freight industry see question 2.
All very interesting but it says where possible containers are fees able to put on a train to central hubs as they are not generally time critical. The uk and to a certain extent European road haulage industry has evolved in to such a streamlined operation a train could never compete with a lot of its work.
I think you will find the British international haulage operation collapsed long after Mrs T left number 10.
There still are and always be British and Irish trucks going over the water but on jobs where the customer is willing to pay for a premium service.
It’s a fact despite what orys will tell us the Eastern European haulage industry destroyed the Western European one due to much lower costs. First it was the poles now as there costs are rising its the bg and ro registered trucks doing it.
Look at the amount of German hauliers that followed hitlers lead and invaded the east and reregistered there fleets there.
Carry fast what’s your problem with the rail industry they probably do pay fuel duty but did you get turned down for a job or were you abused by savils train driving friend and if we are going on about fuel duty those bloody farmers only using red diesel when moving between farms in your world we probably put the tracktor on a truck so trucker don’t feel left out
No wonder the poles are going home. It’s not so much that standards have improved there as they (and the natives here) have succeeded in driving British wages down to their levels.