Carryfast and that Elite transport post

I’ve encountered rail as a driver and as a “customer”

Alot of the railway infrastructure is old we used to pull IFF boxes out of Donny and a few other railheads.
I once spent a day shuttleing boxes from Hull to Donny for the train.
We went back the next day to pick them up and run them direct to Portsmouth as they were found to be to tall to go under railbridges on route.

There is much more planning to be done if your sending it by rail a 6 - 7 hour road journey can take at least twice as long by train.
Normally you load the trailer and despatch it on it’s way.
With rail you have to load it take it to the rail head get it loaded on the train - then reverse the process at the oher end.
Loading and tipping the isn’t a quick process either it can take hours you don’t just pull up and ask for your box to be lifted on.
That’s weather permitting I know we’ve missed timed deliveries because the crane can’t operate due to high winds.
Plus trains get hit by snow as well
If they’ve already tipped the train it could be buried in a stack somewhere.
I seem to remember it could take a while at places such as O conners to get a box if you arrived slap bang at the back of a big queue.
Plus your kit is being handled 3 or 4 more times than it normally would be and is out of your control.

Also the train dosen’t belt along at 100MPH it has to pull over to let passenger trains through it’s a lot of stop start.
Plus they have to have a fair few boxes on to make it pay.
IIRC you can’t get as much stock in a ral box as a box trailer due to height and width restrictions.
Didn’t Mr Dixon race one of Stobart’s in one of the episodes and beat it door to door?

I think haulage is safe for the time being

Soldier z:
I’ve encountered rail as a driver and as a “customer”

Alot of the railway infrastructure is old we used to pull IFF boxes out of Donny and a few other railheads.
I once spent a day shuttleing boxes from Hull to Donny for the train.
We went back the next day to pick them up and run them direct to Portsmouth as they were found to be to tall to go under railbridges on route.

There is much more planning to be done if your sending it by rail a 6 - 7 hour road journey can take at least twice as long by train.
Normally you load the trailer and despatch it on it’s way.
With rail you have to load it take it to the rail head get it loaded on the train - then reverse the process at the oher end.
Loading and tipping the isn’t a quick process either it can take hours you don’t just pull up and ask for your box to be lifted on.
That’s weather permitting I know we’ve missed timed deliveries because the crane can’t operate due to high winds.
Plus trains get hit by snow as well
If they’ve already tipped the train it could be buried in a stack somewhere.
I seem to remember it could take a while at places such as O conners to get a box if you arrived slap bang at the back of a big queue.
Plus your kit is being handled 3 or 4 more times than it normally would be and is out of your control.

Also the train dosen’t belt along at 100MPH it has to pull over to let passenger trains through it’s a lot of stop start.
Plus they have to have a fair few boxes on to make it pay.
IIRC you can’t get as much stock in a ral box as a box trailer due to height and width restrictions.
Didn’t Mr Dixon race one of Stobart’s in one of the episodes and beat it door to door?

I think haulage is safe for the time being

Exactly right Soldier, and you only need a single mishap on the track and the whole network is closed for 12 hours, what good are rail replacement buses here?

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ox … e-20892607

Soldier z:
I’ve encountered rail as a driver and as a “customer”

Alot of the railway infrastructure is old we used to pull IFF boxes out of Donny and a few other railheads.
I once spent a day shuttleing boxes from Hull to Donny for the train.
We went back the next day to pick them up and run them direct to Portsmouth as they were found to be to tall to go under railbridges on route.

There is much more planning to be done if your sending it by rail a 6 - 7 hour road journey can take at least twice as long by train.
Normally you load the trailer and despatch it on it’s way.
With rail you have to load it take it to the rail head get it loaded on the train - then reverse the process at the oher end.
Loading and tipping the isn’t a quick process either it can take hours you don’t just pull up and ask for your box to be lifted on.
That’s weather permitting I know we’ve missed timed deliveries because the crane can’t operate due to high winds.
Plus trains get hit by snow as well
If they’ve already tipped the train it could be buried in a stack somewhere.
I seem to remember it could take a while at places such as O conners to get a box if you arrived slap bang at the back of a big queue.
Plus your kit is being handled 3 or 4 more times than it normally would be and is out of your control.

Also the train dosen’t belt along at 100MPH it has to pull over to let passenger trains through it’s a lot of stop start.
Plus they have to have a fair few boxes on to make it pay.
IIRC you can’t get as much stock in a ral box as a box trailer due to height and width restrictions.
Didn’t Mr Dixon race one of Stobart’s in one of the episodes and beat it door to door?

I think haulage is safe for the time being

Unfortunately the figures,concerning the present rates of growth in rail freight ( a lot of which is owing to the switch from road to rail ) and government policy regarding it’s plans for rail freight,don’t support that view.Road transport ( would be ) a lot safer if the industry had the guts to look after it’s own interests like the rail freight industry does.As things stand no chance in the medium-long term and I wouldn’t bet a pound,let alone the start up capital as an owner driver,on the industry’s chances v the rail freight industry.

Carryfast:

Soldier z:
I’ve encountered rail as a driver and as a “customer”

Alot of the railway infrastructure is old we used to pull IFF boxes out of Donny and a few other railheads.
I once spent a day shuttleing boxes from Hull to Donny for the train.
We went back the next day to pick them up and run them direct to Portsmouth as they were found to be to tall to go under railbridges on route.

There is much more planning to be done if your sending it by rail a 6 - 7 hour road journey can take at least twice as long by train.
Normally you load the trailer and despatch it on it’s way.
With rail you have to load it take it to the rail head get it loaded on the train - then reverse the process at the oher end.
Loading and tipping the isn’t a quick process either it can take hours you don’t just pull up and ask for your box to be lifted on.
That’s weather permitting I know we’ve missed timed deliveries because the crane can’t operate due to high winds.
Plus trains get hit by snow as well
If they’ve already tipped the train it could be buried in a stack somewhere.
I seem to remember it could take a while at places such as O conners to get a box if you arrived slap bang at the back of a big queue.
Plus your kit is being handled 3 or 4 more times than it normally would be and is out of your control.

Also the train dosen’t belt along at 100MPH it has to pull over to let passenger trains through it’s a lot of stop start.
Plus they have to have a fair few boxes on to make it pay.
IIRC you can’t get as much stock in a ral box as a box trailer due to height and width restrictions.
Didn’t Mr Dixon race one of Stobart’s in one of the episodes and beat it door to door?

I think haulage is safe for the time being

Unfortunately the figures,concerning the present rates of growth in rail freight ( a lot of which is owing to the switch from road to rail ) and government policy regarding it’s plans for rail freight,don’t support that view.Road transport ( would be ) a lot safer if the industry had the guts to look after it’s own interests like the rail freight industry does.As things stand no chance in the medium-long term and I wouldn’t bet a pound,let alone the start up capital as an owner driver,on the industry’s chances v the rail freight industry.

All rail freight in the uk is good for is shifting stuff between England and Scotland and between coastal ports and midland railheads. From DIRFT you can hit the south coast, Newcastle, Carlisle, Wales, and get back in a day. Except you wouldn’t need to do the south coast because that would come under the purview of local deliveries direct from the port.

Rail freight can’t match the flexibility of a pallet network, you can’t load a 16’ double decker with lightweight high volume goods and send it by rail. Building new railway lines is more difficult than building roads, you couldn’t run a major distribution centre by rail. All the tesco one at Dirft does is save them the cost of having a warehouse up in Scotland as well. There are plenty of trucks coming and going out of there as well as the train.

Rail cannot and will not replace road haulage. I would like to see more rail freight coming and going between the UK and Europe, hopefully then the Eastern Europeans might stay on their side of the channel. You harp on about conspiracies and subsidies for rail freight, but I think the end of cabotage will have more of an impact for the UK road haulage sector than rail.

starfighter:

Carryfast:

Soldier z:
I’ve encountered rail as a driver and as a “customer”

Alot of the railway infrastructure is old we used to pull IFF boxes out of Donny and a few other railheads.
I once spent a day shuttleing boxes from Hull to Donny for the train.
We went back the next day to pick them up and run them direct to Portsmouth as they were found to be to tall to go under railbridges on route.

There is much more planning to be done if your sending it by rail a 6 - 7 hour road journey can take at least twice as long by train.
Normally you load the trailer and despatch it on it’s way.
With rail you have to load it take it to the rail head get it loaded on the train - then reverse the process at the oher end.
Loading and tipping the isn’t a quick process either it can take hours you don’t just pull up and ask for your box to be lifted on.
That’s weather permitting I know we’ve missed timed deliveries because the crane can’t operate due to high winds.
Plus trains get hit by snow as well
If they’ve already tipped the train it could be buried in a stack somewhere.
I seem to remember it could take a while at places such as O conners to get a box if you arrived slap bang at the back of a big queue.
Plus your kit is being handled 3 or 4 more times than it normally would be and is out of your control.

Also the train dosen’t belt along at 100MPH it has to pull over to let passenger trains through it’s a lot of stop start.
Plus they have to have a fair few boxes on to make it pay.
IIRC you can’t get as much stock in a ral box as a box trailer due to height and width restrictions.
Didn’t Mr Dixon race one of Stobart’s in one of the episodes and beat it door to door?

I think haulage is safe for the time being

Unfortunately the figures,concerning the present rates of growth in rail freight ( a lot of which is owing to the switch from road to rail ) and government policy regarding it’s plans for rail freight,don’t support that view.Road transport ( would be ) a lot safer if the industry had the guts to look after it’s own interests like the rail freight industry does.As things stand no chance in the medium-long term and I wouldn’t bet a pound,let alone the start up capital as an owner driver,on the industry’s chances v the rail freight industry.

All rail freight in the uk is good for is shifting stuff between England and Scotland and between coastal ports and midland railheads. From DIRFT you can hit the south coast, Newcastle, Carlisle, Wales, and get back in a day. Except you wouldn’t need to do the south coast because that would come under the purview of local deliveries direct from the port.

Rail freight can’t match the flexibility of a pallet network, you can’t load a 16’ double decker with lightweight high volume goods and send it by rail. Building new railway lines is more difficult than building roads, you couldn’t run a major distribution centre by rail. All the tesco one at Dirft does is save them the cost of having a warehouse up in Scotland as well. There are plenty of trucks coming and going out of there as well as the train.

Rail cannot and will not replace road haulage. I would like to see more rail freight coming and going between the UK and Europe, hopefully then the Eastern Europeans might stay on their side of the channel. You harp on about conspiracies and subsidies for rail freight, but I think the end of cabotage will have more of an impact for the UK road haulage sector than rail.

I harp on about subsidies and conspiracies because the facts show that I’m right.Unless you’re saying that the rail freight industry has no objections whatsoever to fair competition between road transport and rail freight in the sense of long distance LHV container type operations etc,running on fuel with all road fuel taxes removed,and government transport policy which reflects that. :bulb:

Rail is ( gradually ) replacing road haulage in the sense of it taking,and planning to take in the future,sufficient amounts of long haul work to cause a knock on effect of lost work and resulting over capacity in the industry to,as I’ve said,put the industry back to where it was before the mid 20th century.Just like all the rest you’re under the mistaken notion that the industry can survive on niche type operations,light but high volume loads and local zb work which is total bs.

The idea that you’d prefer to see international work go by train than road says everything about the bonkers Brit road transport industry workers who seem to be saying instead of trying to get a better deal in regards to British-European road freight traffic let’s give it all to the rail freight industry instead. :unamused: :unamused:

With such attitudes my view is the British road transport industry ( and many of those who work in it ) deserves everything that’s coming to it.Which just leaves the fight between the East European road transport industry and the European rail freight industry.In which case I think my support would be with the Poles etc.In other words I’d prefer to see an international load go by Polish truck than British and French train and if the Poles can then use that advantage to pick up some uk cabotage at the expense of the rail freight loving Brits then that’s even better. :imp: :unamused:

The views which I’ve read here seem to show that many British truck drivers are more interested in the looking after the rail freight industry’s interests than those of their own industry. :open_mouth: :unamused: :imp: :imp:

( Carryfast) Rail is ( gradually ) replacing road haulage in the sense of it taking,and planning to take in the future,sufficient amounts of long haul work to cause a knock on effect of lost work and resulting over capacity in the industry to,as I’ve said,put the industry back to where it was before the mid 20th century.Just like all the rest you’re under the mistaken notion that the industry can survive on niche type operations,light but high volume loads and local zb work which is total bs.

I think you need to run a truck on container work I’d rather the train do the long runs I’d spend less on fuel and get more loads in for a higher rate that’s how I work know for me short runs equal more money and the rail industry will never be like the mid 20 th century as most of the track went in the 60s have you ever done this work or are you just a know it all

Have you got a therapist Carryfast?

switchlogic:
Have you got a therapist Carryfast?

Doubtful ! the people reading his posts will need the therapist :laughing: :laughing:

Angus25:
( Carryfast) Rail is ( gradually ) replacing road haulage in the sense of it taking,and planning to take in the future,sufficient amounts of long haul work to cause a knock on effect of lost work and resulting over capacity in the industry to,as I’ve said,put the industry back to where it was before the mid 20th century.Just like all the rest you’re under the mistaken notion that the industry can survive on niche type operations,light but high volume loads and local zb work which is total bs.

I think you need to run a truck on container work I’d rather the train do the long runs I’d spend less on fuel and get more loads in for a higher rate that’s how I work know for me short runs equal more money and the rail industry will never be like the mid 20 th century as most of the track went in the 60s have you ever done this work or are you just a know it all

I don’t think you’ve read any of my previous posts or at least if you did you didnt understand them.As you don’t seem to understand that just doing local intermodal work,isn’t going to pay in the longer term,in an environment where everyone else is doing the same thing,because they’ve all had to decide to join your way of seeing it,and the fact that you don’t seem to understand that the fuel cost issue is all about the government and the rail freight industry,forcing the road transport industry into seeing it your way,then hopefully the Poles etc will find a way of keeping freight where it belongs on the road,by undercutting both the rail freight industry and the gutless British intermodal freight supporters who seem to be working on the idea of instead of trying to beat the rail freight industry let’s help them to wreck the road transport industry instead. :unamused:

It seems to me that all the comments,in support of the current status quo,are all about the intermodal sector of the British road transport industry,acting in it’s own interests.Which are obviously more about looking after the rail freight industry’s interests than the road transport industry’s.In which case,as I’ve said,I’m hoping that the east european road transport industry can put up a better fight than it’s British counterpart against the rail freight industry and it’s obviously intermodal lot supporters.So as it stands cabotage bring it on and,as I’ve said,I’d rather see a container go by Polish truck from port to destination than by train on intermodal.In which case it’ll be east european rate cutting v the fuel tax advantage,but rail company profit margin and ( at present until the rail freight lot impose mileage rates ) effectively paying well over the odds for the truck sector of an intermodal journey.In which case all bets are off and I might even bet a pound on the Poles etc. :imp: :smiling_imp: :unamused:

I’m sorry to say we will never agree I run a truck on container work and it pays and I’d rather a British train take a load then a bloody forien truck and if the pole could under cut the rail industry after 2014 when cabotage is supposed to end the we will have to get militant and make there jobs hell remember only the strong survive

Angus25:
I’m sorry to say we will never agree I run a truck on container work and it pays and I’d rather a British train take a load then a bloody forien truck and if the pole could under cut the rail industry after 2014 when cabotage is supposed to end the we will have to get militant and make there jobs hell remember only the strong survive

You’d rather see a British (more like French) train take the load than a truck.Says everything.Yeah the Brits don’t mind getting militant when it suits the rail freight industry but not when it doesn’t.So if it’s an east euro registered but Brit owned and driven wagon v the train what then :question: :question: .No surprise you’d still be against the idea because no surprise,as I’ve said,the intermodal sector of the uk ‘road transport’ industry is all about looking after itself (which means the rail freight industry) and zb everyone else. :imp:

Mickyblue said he was sure people just googled stuff.

Here is something I googled for you earlier.

The list of commodities carried by rail makes even better reading, suffice to say it is something that hasn’t affected the road haulage industry since the miners strike.

Wheel Nut:
Mickyblue said he was sure people just googled stuff.

Here is something I googled for you earlier.

The list of commodities carried by rail makes even better reading, suffice to say it is something that hasn’t affected the road haulage industry since the miners strike.

Don’t see anything there which wouldn’t support my case that jobs in the long haul sector of the road transport industry are being lost and/or are under threat because of the government’s wish to switch freight from road to rail using unfair anti competitive trading practices.

The key part of intermodal is that it is more than one mode of transportation. You seem to think it means rail freight. Just let the trains move the boxes and then trucks can take them to the end user. Rail can’t duplicate pallet networks, the goods sidings, offices etc are gone. Even Royal Mail don’t use the train.

God Carryfast I know you have wet dreams about the long haul you missed out on but its not the be all and end all. Aren’t you retired? Shouldn’t you take up an interesting pastime instead of getting so wound up about an industry you no longer work in and seemingly didn’t have much experience of when you did.

starfighter:
The key part of intermodal is that it is more than one mode of transportation. You seem to think it means rail freight. Just let the trains move the boxes and then trucks can take them to the end user. Rail can’t duplicate pallet networks, the goods sidings, offices etc are gone. Even Royal Mail don’t use the train.

Intermodal road/rail operations actually just means that rail can’t deliver stuff because rail lines don’t go to where the customers are.So it’s stuck with having to use trucks for the delivery from the rail heads to the customers which from the rail freight industry’s point of view is just an inconvenience and it’s nothing new.Whereas the road transport industry can do the whole job from collection to delivery and most of the productivety that’s actually paid for is the mileage in between the further the better.

What those who support intermodal are saying is that trucks should be barred from doing the most productive part of the job in order to let the big business interests in the rail freight industry get their nose in the trough.It’s being helped to do that by unfair government trading policies directed at road transport in order to make doing that most productive sector of the job uneconomic by road.

Make no mistake the whole bs idea of intermodal road/rail freight movement is all about profit for the rail freight industry at the expense of the road transport industry and it’s only a matter of time before the idea sets the road tranport industry back to where it was in the early 20th century relative to the rail freight industry.The road sector of intermodal freight transport industry is,at present,subject to totally unsustainable rates relative to the distance it’s shifting loads and you can bet that going back to the 1920’s/30’s ideas of freight transport,in which rail dominates,will eventually mean similar types of work opportunities,rates and incomes,in real terms,from road haulage,to those times. :unamused:

Carryfast:

starfighter:
The key part of intermodal is that it is more than one mode of transportation. You seem to think it means rail freight. Just let the trains move the boxes and then trucks can take them to the end user. Rail can’t duplicate pallet networks, the goods sidings, offices etc are gone. Even Royal Mail don’t use the train.

Intermodal road/rail operations actually just means that rail can’t deliver stuff because rail lines don’t go to where the customers are.So it’s stuck with having to use trucks for the delivery from the rail heads to the customers which from the rail freight industry’s point of view is just an inconvenience and it’s nothing new.Whereas the road transport industry can do the whole job from collection to delivery and most of the productivety that’s actually paid for is the mileage in between the further the better.

Intermodal means ports, ships, inland clearance depots, freight depots, trains, warehousing, rivers and lorries.

Barges and inland waterways are the losers in the UK as they are too slow and the infrastructure is poor or used for leisure. In the mid 20’s where CF seems to live, the local farmer takes his goods to market by horse and cart, they are loaded on a small lorry and taken to the railway station. They sit in a siding for a day while the train is loaded and arrive at their destination damaged, in poor condition because they have been handled by the farmer, the lorry driver, the railway worker, another lorry driver, the customer and finally the end consumer. we moved on a bit because the rail infrastructure was proven to be slow. The new motorways were able to be used to move freight quickly from the farm gate to the city markets. The city markets are closed, the motorways are congested and the warehouses are hungry for stock.

What is needed is a new approach whether that means rewriting the rule book and using local hauliers to do the local movements and let the best vehicle for the job move the bulk, that may be a lorry, it may be a barge, it could be a train.

Just remember that even Carryfast when he was a highly skilled night trunker was only a small part of the jigsaw. His company relied on the local driver to collect the goods, the warehouseman to sort them, the forward depot to distribute them using another local driver.

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:

starfighter:
The key part of intermodal is that it is more than one mode of transportation. You seem to think it means rail freight. Just let the trains move the boxes and then trucks can take them to the end user. Rail can’t duplicate pallet networks, the goods sidings, offices etc are gone. Even Royal Mail don’t use the train.

Intermodal road/rail operations actually just means that rail can’t deliver stuff because rail lines don’t go to where the customers are.So it’s stuck with having to use trucks for the delivery from the rail heads to the customers which from the rail freight industry’s point of view is just an inconvenience and it’s nothing new.Whereas the road transport industry can do the whole job from collection to delivery and most of the productivety that’s actually paid for is the mileage in between the further the better.

Intermodal means ports, ships, inland clearance depots, freight depots, trains, warehousing, rivers and lorries.

Barges and inland waterways are the losers in the UK as they are too slow and the infrastructure is poor or used for leisure. In the mid 20’s where CF seems to live, the local farmer takes his goods to market by horse and cart, they are loaded on a small lorry and taken to the railway station. They sit in a siding for a day while the train is loaded and arrive at their destination damaged, in poor condition because they have been handled by the farmer, the lorry driver, the railway worker, another lorry driver, the customer and finally the end consumer. we moved on a bit because the rail infrastructure was proven to be slow. The new motorways were able to be used to move freight quickly from the farm gate to the city markets. The city markets are closed, the motorways are congested and the warehouses are hungry for stock.

What is needed is a new approach whether that means rewriting the rule book and using local hauliers to do the local movements and let the best vehicle for the job move the bulk, that may be a lorry, it may be a barge, it could be a train.

Just remember that even Carryfast when he was a highly skilled night trunker was only a small part of the jigsaw. His company relied on the local driver to collect the goods, the warehouseman to sort them, the forward depot to distribute them using another local driver.

I actually said intermodal ‘road/rail’ freight movements as opposed to ‘road transport’.What you’re describing,even in the case of night trunking,involved/s long haul ‘road transport’ over the type of distance which the present levels of road fuel taxation are there to force onto rail transport wherever possible.

What’s needed is a new approach in which road transport is allowed to do it’s job of competing with the rail freight industry with a level playing field on fuel taxation and which allows the full range of the most efficient truck design possible to do that with.Instead of which we’ve got protectionism for the rail freight industry and no suprise those with an interest in the intermodal road/rail freight transport industry supporting the status quo in regards to that protectionist policy.

As for the 1920’s/30’s I think you’re forgetting that most types of transport,including freight,was done using a system of intermodal road/rail although the only difference was that freight etc etc was transhipped usually involving the lowly truck driver handballing,or shovelling etc,the load for nothing with his pittance for driving the truck,as I’ve said,being based on the short distance he was driving relative to the much more highly regarded and paid train driver.Which,as I’ve said,is a similar situation to what the rail freight industry would like to re create for the 21’st century.

The fact is those with an interest in the road transport industry should just be interested in the interests of that industry while the rail lot are more than capable of looking after themselves.

I think you should open your curtains have a coffee put a set of work boots on and get behind the wheel doing container tramping and see the job as it is very competitive were ever mode of transport has its place if I had to run from Southampton to Glasgow all week I’d make no money I’d loose loads were the train can take it to Glasgow for another driver to pick up some times we get loads that the rail company’s can’t take for what ever reason so we help them out and about the train company being French one is German but still pays uk taxes un like johnny foriner who doesn’t so if you an expert get out there with your own waggon and prove all of us who disagree with you wrong. End of have a nice night well some of us work

Angus25:
I think you should open your curtains have a coffee put a set of work boots on and get behind the wheel doing container tramping and see the job as it is very competitive were ever mode of transport has its place if I had to run from Southampton to Glasgow all week I’d make no money I’d loose loads were the train can take it to Glasgow for another driver to pick up some times we get loads that the rail company’s can’t take for what ever reason so we help them out and about the train company being French one is German but still pays uk taxes un like johnny foriner who doesn’t so if you an expert get out there with your own waggon and prove all of us who disagree with you wrong. End of have a nice night well some of us work

I think you’ve obviously missed the bit where I’ve said that the government is applying protectionist policies in regards to the rail freight industry.Which explains why running a single box from Southampton to Glasgow probably doesn’t pay at present road fuel taxation levels and length and gross weight limits.As I’ve said it’s only a matter of time until running boxes over short distances,while letting the train do most of the job,doesn’t pay wether for unemployed drivers or for operators.

But no the rail freight operators aren’t paying uk taxes in the sense of road fuel taxes which truck operators/customers,like other road fuel users,are paying.