kr79:
Did you know people who were in senior positions of government after ww2 then
Why would I want to trust the politicians’ version of history rather than those who were part of the British occupying forces in Germany at the end of WW2 and those who actually worked and lived here in Britain with first hand knowledge of it’s shortages and under funded manufacturing industry at the time.
I don’t think that Germany would have even been a factor in the post war economy and resulting competiton with us,‘if’ the place had been left as the smoking ruin that we’d bombed back to the stone age which it was at the time and left for the Germans to sort out themselves with no help from us.Or if the place had been been wiped off the map and given to the jews and the Germans made stateless.Or ‘if’ the British politicians and bankers had been working in the interests of their own country,in regards to re building Britain’s economy,instead of putting what little money British money we had into the pockets of ze Germans which was then used against us in economic competiton.
tiptop495:
About germany,it is built up after WW II with American money it never had can rebuild his country alone.I will never blame them they are very clever but have a real look. It was the country at the wall to the east. Look what work they have given Germany by building lots miltary basis and so on and on Our belgian factories built works there for the women of the belgian soldiers,and in each work were Germans at work too and all by all everything was good for feeding the German treasury.So they lived there and bought their livilihood that’s only something they did. But it were and are still very clever men they developed and developed. And they are very chauvinists and when all work together you can reach very much as working alone of course there was competition too. You can always buy at them but selling to them you have to be very very strong. But in lots of branches the japs or other have taken over their business too.
And in lorries only two have survived but are real world players with quality. I think Leyland bought up so many so it must had been possible to survive by using the best engineers and best parts of the bought marques. Look MAN has bought Büssing and became so a very good quality builder.Merc bought Henschel and learnt lots from their engineers. This two had a big money back grounds and bought and used the competitions know-how.
None of that changes the facts that Germany caused a european war which cost loads of lives and wrecked the economies of the countries it invaded and Britain’s because of the expense involved in fighting the place and saving europe.Or that Germany wouldn’t have been a factor in the post war economy ‘if’ the place had been left the smoking ruin bombed back to the stone age which it was at the end of ww2 for the Germans to sort out themselves with no help whatsoever from the Allies.Or if it had been wiped from the map and given to the Jews and the Germans made stateless.Or that the growth of the German economy in the post war years,at the expense of the victims in that war like Britain,was one of the biggest travesties of justice of all time and was an insult to all those who died and were injured fighting the zb’s.
You cannot blame the Germans for WW2, not all of them, yes there were some serious nutcases in charge there, but the people were coerced into supporting the ■■■■ Party by a very clever strategy of propaganda, which on the surface gave them a restored national pride, obviously there was a more sinister side to it all, but the German People never had much chance of doing anything about that.
Look at the way the British Government has continually led the British People down a path it does not want to go down. Especially in recent years, you have your own thoughts on Maggie and blame her for everything, I personally think that Blair should be tried for treason for the crimes he committed against the nation while he was in office. Not a lot either of us could do about it other than whine on the internet, so what choices did the German People have
You can point to the camps and the brutality in them, but today’s Britain would have a line of volunteers from Land’s End to John O’Groats if a similar nutcase was to get in power and start ethnic cleansing in Britain, that doesn’t mean that all British People are racist murderers
To bring this around to the topic in question, did any Ergo cabbed lorries ever get sold into Germany The fundamentals of the BL lorry range and the German manufacturers ranges were very similar at the time
Wasnt Hitlers promise to Germany (dont forget he was Austrian) that every working man would own a car (VW Beetle) and would have a job ? This was at a time when inflation had gone through the roof and you needed a wheelbarrow of money for a loaf of bread,well im sure in their situation you would vote for a leader who promised the same .What they didnt vote for and werent aware of was the brutality torture and slaughter of millions of people throughout the world.This was his hidden agenda and no one who wasnt in the know could have predicted this.As for Newmercmans comments on Blair well,what can you say ? The mans a slimeball who lined his wifes pockets with the introduction of the barmy human rights law ffs .They should be made to pay back every penny shes pocketed from this scandalous law .As for the best ergo ,well i still would have liked a V8 Mandator or a Marathon TL12
kr79:
Did you know people who were in senior positions of government after ww2 then
Why would I want to trust the politicians’ version of history rather than those who were part of the British occupying forces in Germany at the end of WW2 and those who actually worked and lived here in Britain with first hand knowledge of it’s shortages and under funded manufacturing industry at the time.
I don’t think that Germany would have even been a factor in the post war economy and resulting competiton with us,‘if’ the place had been left as the smoking ruin that we’d bombed back to the stone age which it was at the time and left for the Germans to sort out themselves with no help from us.Or if the place had been been wiped off the map and given to the jews and the Germans made stateless.Or ‘if’ the British politicians and bankers had been working in the interests of their own country,in regards to re building Britain’s economy,instead of putting what little money British money we had into the pockets of ze Germans which was then used against us in economic competiton.
I know quite a bit about this period i know the winter of 47/48 was brutal and people were probaly worse off than in the war apart from the air raids and rationing didnt end until 1954.
I also know from this book austin waa on of britains biggest exporters bringing in cash but also couldnt afford to update a lot of its worn out machinery as it wasbringing revenue in but with little profit left for itself
It’s a terrible thing to say Carryfast that the Germans should have been left to their own devices after the war. Millions of innocents would have died. The Marshall plan was not capricious, it was a very generous gesture from the Americans to prevent absolute disaster in Europe and it worked. You do tend to be a rewriter of history my friend. The Berlin airlift was a different thing altogether. The Soviets were illegally blockading the city. The airlift broke that blockade and taught Stalin a salutary lesson!
I just wonder how long we can go on banging on about the Ergo cab. It was basically a good cab for its’ time - end of story!
Jazzandy:
It’s a terrible thing to say Carryfast that the Germans should have been left to their own devices after the war. Millions of innocents would have died. The Marshall plan was not capricious, it was a very generous gesture from the Americans to prevent absolute disaster in Europe and it worked. You do tend to be a rewriter of history my friend. The Berlin airlift was a different thing altogether. The Soviets were illegally blockading the city. The airlift broke that blockade and taught Stalin a salutary lesson!
I just wonder how long we can go on banging on about the Ergo cab. It was basically a good cab for its’ time - end of story!
Why would there have been ‘absolute disaster’ in europe assuming the Marshall Plan had still gone ahead ‘but’ with the exclusion of Germany.As for us the Marshall Plan didn’t work at all because it wasn’t a gift that money had to be paid back.So effectively,as I’ve said,Germany caused a war in europe that cost us a fortune and wrecked our industrial capacity in addition to the lost and wrecked lives. Then to add insult to injury it’s industries and country were rebuilt at our expense both directly in the form of British aid and indirectly in the form of competition against our own wrecked industrial capability using the investment provided to German industry by the former Allied forces.Such as the example which I gave of Volkswagen.
Ironically it was the British government that actually wanted extra investment in German industry and to allow it to grow against the terms of the Potsdam agreement which ( rightly ) originally intended to keep German industry out of the frame in future to make sure that it couldn’t compete with the allied victors.The reason for Britain’s stupid position was to get Germany back on it’s feet so that we no longer needed to provide the levels of aid which we were lumbered with having to provide the place because of those bleeding heart German sympathisers like you.The Americans then supported that position in the attempt to win the ‘hearts and minds’ of the German people for fear of them turning to communism. Instead of just doing as I’ve said in making the zb’s pay for what they’d done by either leaving them in the stone age where bomber command had put them or just wiping the place from the map by giving it to the jews and making the Germans stateless.
It’s actually successive British governments who’ve tried to re write history by using propaganda to make all that look like a good thing and then to add insult to injury blamed the inevitable results on so called ‘militant’ ‘lazy’ British workers v their so called ‘better’ more ‘efficient’ German competitors remembering that many of those so called ‘militant’ ‘lazy’ British workers in question were those who’d defeated those so called ‘better’ ‘more efficient’ German ones some years previously both in terms of fighting and engineering ability.
All of which is relevant to the topic in that if you really want to know where the seeds of the loss of Britain’s manufacturing industry,including that of the Leyland Truck Group,were sown,the blame for that can mostly be put on successive post war British governments and the British bankers and those post war bleeding heart German sympathisers.
In keeping with that no the ERGO wasn’t a good cab at all.Considering,as I’ve shown,it’s foreign ( German ) opposition,in the form of at least the Merc LP’s development during the production life of both the ERGO and the Marathon.
The Marshall Plan’s loans were distributed in similar amounts to Britain and Germany and France, plus a few other countries. IIRC, the interest rate was 1.5%, with no repayment period. In other words, they were a godsend to any business, wherever it was in Europe. Consider the relative states of Leyland and MAN’s factories after the war: MAN was devastated, Leyland was running almost normally. Given that the cheap American loans were available to all European countries, Leyland entered peacetime with a huge advantage over its German competitor. The loon’s suggestion that GB funded the success of Germany’s manufacturing industry is simply wrong.
If any extra money was gifted to Germany, it was given as humanitarian aid, to prevent famine and plague. The loon’s suggestion that this aid should have been withheld is vile. Ban him now, moderators- this is your opportunity.
In keeping with that no the ERGO wasn’t a good cab at all.Considering,as I’ve shown,it’s foreign ( German ) opposition,in the form of at least the Merc LP’s development during the production life of both the ERGO and the Marathon.
[/quote]
Gentlemen…irrespective of Carryfasts “bluring” of time frames, and strange views of history, and perverse views on commercial vehicle design and engineering, the above statement really sums it all up…an empty vessel making a lot of noise I fear!
[zb]
anorak:
Ban him now, moderators- this is your opportunity.
Well its ok banning him but who will be able to take over his position and tell us where weve all gone wrong in the past with his relentless use of hindsight (and google of course :laughing: ) the mans a legend or is it a leg end? … not sure on that one .But if he as to go well ok then we will struggle through without him,it will be hard though i kid you not but i think we will pull through.The references to big red fire engines and 2 stroke DD V8s (turbos of course) could you really live without it anorak ? , dont answer that. It will be a sad day if he goes ,flags at half mast people mourning all over the country tears (of joy ) … yeah ban the clown
Saviem:
In keeping with that no the ERGO wasn’t a good cab at all.Considering,as I’ve shown,it’s foreign ( German ) opposition,in the form of at least the Merc LP’s development during the production life of both the ERGO and the Marathon.
Gentlemen…irrespective of Carryfasts “bluring” of time frames, and strange views of history, and perverse views on commercial vehicle design and engineering, the above statement really sums it all up…an empty vessel making a lot of noise I fear!
Cheerio for now.
[/quote]
Are you reffering to the mercs, carryfast or both sir ?
[zb]
anorak:
The Marshall Plan’s loans were distributed in similar amounts to Britain and Germany and France, plus a few other countries. IIRC, the interest rate was 1.5%, with no repayment period. In other words, they were a godsend to any business, wherever it was in Europe. Consider the relative states of Leyland and MAN’s factories after the war: MAN was devastated, Leyland was running almost normally. Given that the cheap American loans were available to all European countries, Leyland entered peacetime with a huge advantage over its German competitor. The loon’s suggestion that GB funded the success of Germany’s manufacturing industry is simply wrong.
If any extra money was gifted to Germany, it was given as humanitarian aid, to prevent famine and plague. The loon’s suggestion that this aid should have been withheld is vile. Ban him now, moderators- this is your opportunity.
Firstly not only were a lot of our factories devastated just like the Germans but those that remained were left with worn out tooling and machinery which needed to be replaced without the money to do so.Just as was the case in investment in development and production of new products and paying the British workforce decent wages.
Then you’re saying that the fact that we were left with massive debts to the US totalling around $1.8 trillion in todays terms which took until 2006 to pay off,all because of a war caused by Germany,was a good thing because of some so called bs relative ‘advantage’ ( as you see it ) which Leyland supposedly had over MAN who’s factories were of course a target owing to their supply of engines for Hitler’s submarine fleet for example and therefore ( rightly ) paid the price for that ( at the time ) but just like the rest of the country was then rebuilt with new investment and a well paid workforce allowing it to eventually put what remained of Britain’s automotive industry out of contention.
What I call vile is your documented attacks against British workers ( many of them having fought in that war ) in regards to all those facts while obviouly being sympathetic to the generation of Germans who put them in that position.The fact is we had no responsibility for the situation which the Germans found themselves in at the end of WW2 and then to add insult to injury we never held the place accountable for the costs caused to us in the form of direct and indirect aid given to them,to appease the bleeding heart sympathisers, and US political objectives in the region,which Germany should have been made liable for not us.
Saviem:
In keeping with that no the ERGO wasn’t a good cab at all.Considering,as I’ve shown,it’s foreign ( German ) opposition,in the form of at least the Merc LP’s development during the production life of both the ERGO and the Marathon.
Gentlemen…irrespective of Carryfasts “bluring” of time frames, and strange views of history, and perverse views on commercial vehicle design and engineering, the above statement really sums it all up…an empty vessel making a lot of noise I fear!
Cheerio for now.
[/quote]
So are you saying that the Merc LP range wasn’t in production during the production life of the ERGO and that the ERGO was a better product at least from the point of view of cab design during that period .
