I’ve just been on Commercial Motor’s ‘Biglorryblog’ and I notice that they’re asking what were the best motors for the M/E run in the '70s! They should have asked on this forum because we can give them loads of answers! Here’s the link if you are logged into biglorryblog:
commercialmotor.com/big-lorr … glorryblog
If not, feel free to express your opinions on this thread and I’m sure Biglorryblog will harvest opinions from here! Oh, and needless to say, I’d vote for the ERF NGC ‘European’ - 'nuff said!
Cheers,
Robert
As said elsewhere a well specced 6x4 Kenworth would take some beating in first place.
Then although heart says Bedford TM head says Scania 140 but preferably with a Fuller box conversion.Also bearing in mind it was a drawbar outfit which was the star of Destination Doha not an artic. 
farm4.static.flickr.com/3323/341 … 213e8e.jpg
My vote would go to the V10 Mercedes Benz 1632. Not fast, not economical but ultra reliable and simple to work on if things went wrong. Decent cab. Warewell had a small fleet of them running to northern Cyprus and we had one on Archers.
Got to be the 141, a Scandinavian spec 6x2 like GS Overland’s one, pulling a CF spreadaxle tilt. The 141 is an unscratched itch for me.
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ex brs marathon with m/e spec my 1st trip in one will never forget then drove one in later life but 141 /f89 gotta be up there
ChrisArbon:
My vote would go to the V10 Mercedes Benz 1632. Not fast, not economical but ultra reliable and simple to work on if things went wrong. Decent cab. Warewell had a small fleet of them running to northern Cyprus and we had one on Archers.
If this is the one you meant, Chris, it had LHD and a 13-speed Fuller in it! So ideal, then apart from the twin-steer. Robert
Mack F786. 290 BHP loads of torque, huge bunk and repairable on the side of the road in most cases although, as Nick Carter will confirm, not when you’ve got a seized UV joint on the propshaft on the far side of Adapazari !
Jazzandy:
Mack F786. 290 BHP loads of torque, huge bunk and repairable on the side of the road in most cases although, as Nick Carter will confirm, not when you’ve got a seized UV joint on the propshaft on the far side of Adapazari !
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I loaded two brand new Turkish-built Toyota Carollas in my tilt trailer at Adapazri once. They were destined for UK crash testing at the government site in Nuneaton! Robert
Jazzandy’s post reminded me of another interesting contender, because he mentions the OHS Macks. OHS also ran some Seddon-Atkinson 400 ‘Internationals’. Not many were made, but they were better spec’d than the domestic model having LHD, a ■■■■■■■ 335 lump and a 9-speed Fuller. They ran on Middle-East work and drivers of them have spoken well of them on these threads. I did start a thread about this particular model a while ago. Here’s the link:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=114826&hilit=lhd+seddon+atkinson+400s
Robert
robert1952:
Jazzandy’s post reminded me of another interesting contender, because he mentions the OHS Macks. OHS also ran some Seddon-Atkinson 400 ‘Internationals’. Not many were made, but they were better spec’d than the domestic model having LHD, a ■■■■■■■ 335 lump and a 9-speed Fuller. They ran on Middle-East work and drivers of them have spoken well of them on these threads. I did start a thread about this particular model a while ago. Here’s the link:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=114826&hilit=lhd+seddon+atkinson+400s
Robert
Purely hypothetical, of course, but I wonder how an Australian Atkinson might have fared!
240 Gardner:
robert1952:
Jazzandy’s post reminded me of another interesting contender, because he mentions the OHS Macks. OHS also ran some Seddon-Atkinson 400 ‘Internationals’. Not many were made, but they were better spec’d than the domestic model having LHD, a ■■■■■■■ 335 lump and a 9-speed Fuller. They ran on Middle-East work and drivers of them have spoken well of them on these threads. I did start a thread about this particular model a while ago. Here’s the link:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=114826&hilit=lhd+seddon+atkinson+400s
Robert
Purely hypothetical, of course, but I wonder how an Australian Atkinson might have fared!
Well, they survived long journeys in the outback so the sleeper-cabbed version might have survived. However, I think Biglorryblog’s request was for serious contenders that you could set against the likes of F89s and 141s because they had a real-life track record on the Middle-East run. The ERF NGCs, Transcons, Marathons and Seddon-Atkinson 400s were designed as long-haulers with trans-Europe and beyond in mind. Even the Scammell Crusader had the advantage that it was strong, and plenty of those went down there. Robert
Plenty of other Continent-built models were popular on the M/E run in the '70s: F8 MANs, DAF 2800s, Saviem 340s, Fiats… Robert
robert1952:
240 Gardner:
robert1952:
Jazzandy’s post reminded me of another interesting contender, because he mentions the OHS Macks. OHS also ran some Seddon-Atkinson 400 ‘Internationals’. Not many were made, but they were better spec’d than the domestic model having LHD, a ■■■■■■■ 335 lump and a 9-speed Fuller. They ran on Middle-East work and drivers of them have spoken well of them on these threads. I did start a thread about this particular model a while ago. Here’s the link:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=114826&hilit=lhd+seddon+atkinson+400s
Robert
Purely hypothetical, of course, but I wonder how an Australian Atkinson might have fared!
Well, they survived long journeys in the outback so the sleeper-cabbed version might have survived. However, I think Biglorryblog’s request was for serious contenders that you could set against the likes of F89s and 141s because they had a real-life track record on the Middle-East run. The ERF NGCs, Transcons, Marathons and Seddon-Atkinson 400s were designed as long-haulers with trans-Europe and beyond in mind. Even the Scammell Crusader had the advantage that it was strong, and plenty of those went down there. Robert
Hi Robert,
Here is a Sed Atki which done a few trips to Iraq in the 80’s, 290 roller and 9 speed fuller, Cheer’s Pete
Your right there, Pete - a good example. And the likes of Whittles send 400s down to M/E as well.
BTW, here are the examples of known good M/E wagons cited by Biglorryblog in its intro:
Daf 2800
ERF NGC
Fiat 619
Leyland Marathon
Mack F786
Magirus Deutz 232/310
MAN 16.232/240/280
Mercedes 1626/1632
Scania 110/140/111/141
Volvo F88/F89
Robert
When drawing up comparisons of this kind, it should always be borne in mind that whereas the likes of Scania and Volvo turned out premium European units, some of the British assemblers/builders were turning out two quite different beasts in the premium category: domestic sloggers with sleeper cabs and acceptable performance; and alongside them LHD Euro-spec version with properly equipped cabs and big engines. ERF, Bedford and Seddon-Atkinson are excellent examples (remember the Italian-spec Bedford TM with Detroit 400).
Another thing to be borne in mind was the '70s race to see who could produce the poshest ‘Middle-East’ cab. For chapter and verse on this aspect, I refer you to the thread I opened on long-haul cab packs. Here’s the link:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=118844&hilit=cab+packs
Robert
robert1952:
ChrisArbon:
My vote would go to the V10 Mercedes Benz 1632. Not fast, not economical but ultra reliable and simple to work on if things went wrong. Decent cab. Warewell had a small fleet of them running to northern Cyprus and we had one on Archers.
If this is the one you meant, Chris, it had LHD and a 13-speed Fuller in it! So ideal, then apart from the twin-steer. Robert
0
Hi Robert, right cab, wrong truck. That was a good truck, V8 280 bhp, but the twin-steer caused more problems than it was worth. The V10 at 320 bhp would be my choice for a M/E engine. No turbo but no problems. Mercedes probably had more trucks running Eastern Europe and M/E in the 70s and the 80s; mainly due to the SOMAT fleet from Bulgaria. Double-drive and well-specced for any eventuality. Belly tanks and two spares on the trailers; just had poor pay for the double-manned team or it would have been a good job with good equipment.
ChrisArbon:
robert1952:
ChrisArbon:
My vote would go to the V10 Mercedes Benz 1632. Not fast, not economical but ultra reliable and simple to work on if things went wrong. Decent cab. Warewell had a small fleet of them running to northern Cyprus and we had one on Archers.
If this is the one you meant, Chris, it had LHD and a 13-speed Fuller in it! So ideal, then apart from the twin-steer. Robert
0
Hi Robert, right cab, wrong truck. That was a good truck, V8 280 bhp, but the twin-steer caused more problems than it was worth. The V10 at 320 bhp would be my choice for a M/E engine. No turbo but no problems. Mercedes probably had more trucks running Eastern Europe and M/E in the 70s and the 80s; mainly due to the SOMAT fleet from Bulgaria. Double-drive and well-specced for any eventuality. Belly tanks and two spares on the trailers; just had poor pay for the double-manned team or it would have been a good job with good equipment.
Yes Chris, I recognise the sense in all that. I too remember the SOMAT Merc NGs (and also their rather interesting stopping places in Bulgaria!). I drove twin-steer NGs in the UK and I can see why they would have been a disaster on TIR work - the steering lock was useless and so was the traction in slippery conditions from what I remember. I never drove the 320 bhp model you cite, but I did drive the 330 (1633) which was far and away the liveliest low-tech NG I ever drove. I would have certainly put up with a LHD NG with the 330 lump - they were actually very nice to drive, and very reliable but those ZF synchromesh 'boxes were not to my taste. But they were certainly fit for purpose! That said, I’m probably already out of order here because I don’t think the 330 came out till the '80s. Robert
The White Road Commander was another odd American import that seemed to flourish in small numbers in the Middle-East run in the '70s. They could be ordered in RHD or LHD and had a default driveline of CAT 280 bhp engine and 9-speed Fuller, though I understand from reading comments on these threads that they were really not all that comfortable to drive!
When I look at the list above of all the properly spec’d Middle-Easters, I don’t think that there are many I wouldn’t take down there. It was the ludicrous choices of chancers and lunatics that threw up models that no one in his right mind would leave Blighty in: anything with a day-cab for a start! Bathgate BMCs, Bedford TKs and the like - forget them. This thread needs to focus on the real winners: the kind of unit that you could buy new in, say 1976, and run for half a dozen years to the Gulf and back. ERF and Scania are up there with the boys! 
(The picture below by Chris Till appears in Lorries of Arabia: ERF NGC Part 2)Robert
robert1952:
When drawing up comparisons of this kind, it should always be borne in mind that whereas the likes of Scania and Volvo turned out premium European units, some of the British assemblers/builders were turning out two quite different beasts in the premium category: domestic sloggers with sleeper cabs and acceptable performance; and alongside them LHD Euro-spec version with properly equipped cabs and big engines…
Robert
Were the LHD versions so different from the vehicles aimed at the GB long haul market, apart from maybe an extra few horsepower and a cab big enough to sleep two? While I accept that your favourite ERF might have been a step up from an LV, it was unusual in that respect. The LHD Seddon Atkinson, for example, did not appear any different from its RHD sister. The NTC335 would have been an option on the spec sheet, alongside left- or right hand drive, I would guess.
As far as I can make out from reading these threads, really useful Middle East additions, like fuel tank heaters, chassis-mounted lockable tool/chain boxes etc. were absent from the specification of most vehicles.
, which was surely a most iconic 
(if not entirely reliable 
) contestant! Lovely to drive 
, dodgy electrics 
) . Oh my god: where will this all end! 
