Thank you Saviem for your posts on these intriguing French manufacturers. It is great to get an insight as to their histories. I always liked the Berliet, as I thought they were ahead of their time, and very underated in both the UK & Ireland. The cab was excellent and Ford made an excellent choice when they picked it for the Transcontinental. Keep up these excellent posts.
Hello Saviem
Dave Grundy was a Service dept man - At Renault Trucks U.K he was in charge of Training. Ray Graham was in Sales.
Cheers
Steve
Evening Gentlemen, steve thank you for the images, the Saviem J, and 350 Berliet date from about 77, and wear “our” Italian marketing name “Il bisonte de la Strada”, the road Bull! it worked well as a slogan, (and also a company magazine). Francoise Zanotti was particularly keen on the Italian market, it was not enormous, but its key feature was that big fleets did not predominate, and force down prices! It was a market where it was thought, (and was proved), that we could outsell Volvo product for product.
Saviem had long had a relationship with Alfa Romeo, they produced the SG, (Saviem Gaillini, formerly Renault ), range up to 5tonnes. And with 8bhp coming the V8 Berliet slotted in well. The J range Saviems up to 13tonnes were well received, having power outputs up to 170bhp, and tight turning circles, ideal for the small urban streets.
We really pushed the boat out with gymkhanas, driving days, stunt demonstrations, (my particular memory as “we” felt brittle that the French Battaile family had gone to work for Fiat/Iveco, so we really upped the anti and took the battle to Italian soil)!!! Service contracts for small operators, and loads of other things to help the image…and it did, and by the time we became Renault Veicoli Industriali we were a major player in the market.
Happy days indeed,
Cheerio for now.
Saviem:
Hi Trev, Anorak, Gentlemen,No not far from Peter Trev!
No fully equipped Le Centaure
s were sold in the UK. If I remember correctly the CV show, 80/81ish, Renault Truck and Bus exhibited a rhd TR 305 Le Centaure trim, raised bunk, TV, kitchen pack, a/c, 4x2 in white. I think that Bob Wilson, the Birmingham Showman, was interested in her, but did not buy her. As was someone with a White Road Commode from the London area, but no deal there!Then I think Dunstable, registered her and used her for promotions coupled to a Scammel tandem box, in white with the corporate stripe livery, (not at all impressive)! Really do not know what happened to her in the end, (Im better on the French ones …sad is it not)! I cannot recollect any more rhd ones being built. But remember RVI had taken over/merged Dodge in the UK and Spain, and the UK people were used to selling into volume business,so something as individualistic as Le Centaure probably would not have excited them! Also they, and their dealers had enjoyed a disasterous time with the Baerreiros tractors and rigids, so were very reticent about the 28ton plus market sector. Yet RT&B had run a market penetration of around 3.something %, with a very limited range, and dealer network. Very respectable, with a good repeat business ratio. Like all things, this became lost in the merger, and it was some time before it was regained, and then only with an enhanced range,TF, G, and TR…
As I said earlier, the Le Centaure lorry was a flagship, but actually a genre, you could mix and match to meet your budget, and of course eventually it led to the Turbo liner range. But it gave RVI a real flagship, that was easily recognised, and became an item of desire for many in the industry. Fit and finish was really excellent, and the interiors stayed together very well.
Just going back to our black and reds. The 6x4 TRHs, really cought the eye of the “Heavy Hitters”, and a number were sold into major Hors Code operators like Stag, Zucchoni, Scales etc. The TRH was rated at 38000kgs/60000kgs, or 120000kgs…and many ran reliably in excess of this!! The French Nuclear industry was in full swing, and there was lots of work in the Heavy haulage field. They were a real work horse with a comfortable cab, and a superb mechanical specification.
The final evolution of the Black and Red Demos incorporated rather garish stripes swooping down the cab sides, incorporating either, 300ch, (TR305), or 352ch, (V8)…Oh and a large Cockrels head on each door!!(the Rugby influence), but very spectacular to see on the road.
Cheerio for now.
I slept in that truck when I was a child !!! My dad was Demonstrator driver at Renault at Trafford park ! Robin Beeston had a RHD Le Centaure for sale in the early 90’s which my Dad went to buy they also had a Black Turbo liner with full red velvet interior called Ruby ! both trucks were in a very poor state though 
An Italian 6x2 Berliet GR 350. Look at the rear steering axle.
Evening all, great photo of a battle scared GR350 6x2 michel, thank you.
Just a few bits of incedental trivia on Berliet/RVI s Italian operations. Italy as amarket had some differences to the rest of Europe, over 90% of all market sectors was held by the domestic manufacturer, Fiat Group companies. Prior to the 1970s it was extremely difficult to register for road use any vehicles not made in Italy itself, and in the Hire and Reward sector, (whose vehicles were easily identified by the two white diagonal stripes diplayed front and back), was dominated by fleets of less than twenty vehicles.
Saviem had since the 1960s enjoyed some success with a licence building agreement with Alfa Romeo, who built the SG range, and marketed them as the Seria A. As the Italian market opened up in the early 70s the 300V8 Series sold in limited numbers. Berliet had enjoyed similar success, but the unreliability initially with the 320 had blunted operator enthusiasm.
Zanotti wanted the new Renault Veicoli Industriale SPA, launched in 1977 to become a major player in Italy. The 77 Turin show we had a 356 V8, resplendent in the Black chrome and red pin stripe livery, plus the GB191 & GR231 range, (the 06 23 30 engine), plus the J range, as well as the familiar lightweight SG range, all badged as Renault. Prior to, during, and for two months after the show, RVI conducted intensive operator days, getting people into, and driving all the types of vehicles on show at Turin, plus some derivatives like a TR305 Viberti rear steer 23tonne rigid, and a similar spec TR356, as michels photograph. And in a deeply personal market, it worked.
Giacono Faimal, our Direttore Comunicazione had organized the production of a rather “arty” film on RVI, its products, and their origins, produced by the noted Italian Director,Nino Valoni. It was quite spectacular, and was shown both on TV, and certain Italian Cinemas to get the company known. Then mixed in with all of this fanfare came Holer Togni…stuntman extraordinaire. I stated previously how vexed were our management that the French Battaille family were publicising, with some success, the Fiat range of lorries with their spectacular driving stunts…then we went “native”, enter Holer!
Oh yes there are stunt drivers, you see their work on every TV screen, and hardly recognise one from another, but sometimes… Standing well over 6ft, shaven headed, (when no one was), dressed in a silver flame proof suit, of body hugging tightness, and possesing a charm and personna that mesmerised the ladies, made him every boys hero, but could easily mix and circulate amongst the “suits”…he was a winner. His chosen weapon, but of course a 356Berliet 4x2, in electric blue, fitted with all the twinkly bits, horns spotlights, a “chariot”, style body with an enormous wing on the back, and of course non silenced exhausts…well it was Italy after all!!
Unlike so many stunt displays, Holer and the Berliet would often be working at our Operator days, or as we termed them, “Camion in Piazza”. This meant stunts in a public place…clearance for such seemed often impossible, then suddenly all opposition would “melt away”, everything would be smiles, handshakes, and of course ringside seats for all and sundry!! And what stunts, Holer did not do things gently, the tighter the arena, the more he enjoyed it, popping that big tractor up onto two wheels, (both on the same side…and if space allowed an encore by driving on the drive axle only, the front being a good four feet above the tarmac…all to the melodious and fruity throb of the big V8, with a descant of the screaming, moaning protesting tyres!!
One very convivial, and in business terms good weekend was spent on the Piazza at Forli, just inland from Rimini, where we had the whole range on display, all resplendent in the new Italian Red finish for the cabs. Amongst the demonstrators we had available were a 4x2 356 v8 coupled to a Viberti self steer tri axle semi trailer, plus a TR305 rear steer 23tonne rigid. Amazing just how tightly those rear steer axles could turn on twisty roads, as I was to find out on the Passo di Muraglione, on the road down to Firenze…but that is another story.
Out into the rain, more fences to mend, and this rain does not make it an easy job! Cheerio for now.
Hi Saviem,
Big Dorris’s dad here. I worked for Renault Trucks UK for a couple of years back in the eighties. I was the national demonstration driver. My boss was Anne Staples who was based at Park Royal in London but I operated out of Manchester where the demonstrators were based. At the time, several dealers also had their own demonstrators and as you observed in some of you earlier posts they were not the best kept or presented trucks. Factory yellow and red lead chassis. They never got washed and looked awful. No introduction to drivers, just “there it is, give it a go and let me know”. The National demos were painted in the Black livery or the white and red. These tended to be blinged up with additional lights and air horns. They were well presented and always went out with either myself at the wheel or a competent salesman from Renault Trucks UK. I visited many customers and would even spend a few days with the larger fleet seeds to make sure the driver was up to speed with the load lugging characteristics of the TR 305 engines. The hardest part of the job was convincing “my best man” that the product was a good one. All too often, the “top man” was set in his ways and was not going to do the truck any favours. I regularly witnessed drivers returning 3 or 4 mpg by thrashing the daylights out of the truck just because they liked their Volvo and didn’t want the Renault to outshine it. I remember doing a demo with the well known tipper operator, Norman’s of Barnsley. They operated bonneted Macks and their drivers were fiercely defensive of the trucks and did their utmost to belittle the TR 280 demonstrator. The Renault more than held its own with regards to performance and fuel consumption but could not compete in unladen weight. The Macks could shift an additional 1 tonne of coal per trip, but the drivers also hated it so it was on a hiding to nothing from the start. After two weeks, I went back to Barnsley and did a week on the truck myself, competing with the Macks. With the extra power, I did an extra trip and carried more coal in the week, using less fuel than the Macks, but there was no convincing the drivers who loved their day cab deafening uncomfortable but good looking Macks. (Midnight Star and Midnight Shadow were but two that I remember). Bob Norman did offer to buy the demonstrator though. In hindsight, plastic mudguards, single fuel tank and no lead on ramps would have got the weight down but this was a demonstrator and it went straight to another operator after a three week spell on the coal run. (After a good wash and polish).
I picked up the Le Centaur from the Birmingham NEC Commercial Vehicle Show where it won the Gold Award for the cab design. The truck was a one off right hand drive and was fitted with a raised bunk, with water storage tank, small refrigerator and gas bottle stored underneath it. It had a cooker and sink fitted in a specially designed centre box. In addition, it had an aircon unit on the roof along with twin air horns and multi directional spotlights in the roof. There was a tv fitted with a box that would allow the tv to operated in Europe or the uk. The truck arrived late at the show and came in plain white. The red and black diagonal stripes were hastily added by Chris Love who ran the Publicity Department. It did have the under run bar and 6 spots fitted by the factory and plenty of chrome. The interior was trimmed as a standard TR 305 except for the shortened gear lever which came with a chrome knob. The box was the Fuller.
The truck was usually stored at Greenwoods Storage in Oxford, but I used it for several road shows, pulling the Renault Trucks UK show trailer. I demo-ed it with Edwin Shirley Trucking and they took a TR305 fleet seed for 6 months but not the Le Centaur. There were several owner drivers after the truck but it was priced too steeply. Dave Hollinghurst from Renault Manchester thought he had sold it a couple of times but I remember his boss, Phil Holmes telling Dave that we needed to make more than £50 profit on it.
I remember Dave Grundy working from London and Oxford but more so Barry Burke who was foreman fitter at Manchester. Doctor Diesel we called him. Incidentally, many of the TR models arrived in this country badged as Berliet and were changed over at Manchester. Peter Morgan was Northern Fleet Sales Manager and often asked me to attend field sales with Le Centaur. I took the truck home one night ready for an early start. My son slept in it !! At the time, Gobsnotters were a rare sight and even the Daf Spacecab was not that common. I went to the factory in Llyon a couple of times and saw the original Centaurs, they were something different and clearly a one man motor. Too heavy for the UK market though. The uk version was not fitted with the shower. The filler cap for the water tank was on the outside of the cab though.
I left Renault when they took over Dodge. I was told I would have to move to Dunstable but my kids were in school in Derbyshire and I lived less than 100 metres from the Peak District Nation Park. I decided to leave. The Centaur was taken to Dunstable and I don’t know what happened to it from there. The problem was, it was two years old and still unregistered. The Turboliner had arrived with the 310 engine so Le Centaur was an old new truck. The last I saw of it was about 12 years ago when Robin Beeston had it for sale. I went to buy it but was shocked when I saw it. The chrome bumper and light bar had gone, the A/C unit was missing as was the kitchen sink and cooker. At the time, I walked away, but boy oh boy with the benefit of hindsight and a bit more time now, I wished I had bought it.
Nice to read your posts Saviem. I feel as though I have met you and I am sure our paths would have crossed either at Manchester or on one of my many visits to Park Royal. I did several big shows and the Lorry Driver of the Year show with Murray Walker. The management team at the Post House Brampton asked me to move Le Centaur and the show trailer from their car park one night as I prepared for the Tip Con in Harrogate as the Milk Race was due in town. The truck stayed put and the bike riders loved seeing it in the car park.
I did get to drive the Virage Project on one of my trips to Llyon. I was super impressed and was fortunate enough to go on to drive a Magnum in another job. I also did many miles in a Turboliner as well as driving an early Daf 3300 Space cab. I was fortunate enough to drive the Swedish Truck Parts T cab Scania High Roof for a couple of years, but nothing came anywhere near the 340 Turboliner for comfort and quietness. Keep posting Saviem. Your knowledge and info brings back many memories.
CJ.
More interesting stuff. Keep it coming, chaps. How about this:
flickr.com/photos/xavnco2/72 … 4906820660
Does anyone know when it was built, and for what?
Only a quickie, (in between the rain to dry out, and reload with posts and wire). Anorak, that unit for La Voix du Nord newspaper is well known in france. Stood for years in a shed, before being “discovered”. If I remember Pelpel did the bodywork, and you can see the hallmark Charbonnix styling. Pure Television! michel may have chapter and verse on this one, in some detail.
Big Dorrris, we could have met, I know some of the names you quote, Ann Staples, really nice lady, and Peter Morgan, superbly enthusiastic man. The merger, and relocations did no favours to a lot of people throughout Europe, and in the UK the company lost direction, (and good staff).
Got to go, the suns come out, and Ive eaten my sandwich! Cheerio for now.
According to the blurb acompanying the photos, it was styled by Charbonneaux and built by Le ■■■■■■■■ who (after a brief web search) are also responsible for these delights:
google.co.uk/search?q=carros … 73&bih=686
I reckon it uses the Bernard Charbonneaux cab as a basis.
Edit- the swear filter will not allow the coachbuilder’s name. It rhymes with “fastard”.
Edit 2- it will not even allow the link- type it into Google yourselves, unless you are interested in the work of [zb] Coachbuilders!
That was interesting Big Dorris’ dad, especially what you say about how demonstrators where sometimes delivered. I remember an owner driver subby getting a TR280 from the Trafford Park dealer, it would have been the winter of 82 I think. It was a maroon/crimson colour, not a factory paint job, and really not the best, dropped of by two guys, the only comment being that as the weather was cold it will smoke a bit in the mornings, and gone.
Not a bad vehicle really, a bit heavier than ideal and whilst it pulled well the fuel, could have been better, 7.7 seems to be coming to mind, which was a good 0.5mpg behind what we expected; having said that with a bit of tuition that may well have been bettered. The owner driver who ran it liked it as a driver, but operationally it wasn’t quite there, and a little fear of the unknown as well.
All great stuff chaps 
Dave Grundy used to tell a story of some TR280/305 units that had been stored so long the roofs had rusted through and had to be replaced.
Steve
Hi acd.
Yes, the TR280 was operated as a demonstrator by Renault Manchester and was affectionately known as Ruby. I’m surprised about your comments though as the Manchester guys were usually on the ball. Dave Hollinghurst and Derek Askwith were the two sales lads and Dave Duggy Douglas was the coordinator. As usual, demonstrators had a very hard life but Manchester usually looked after Ruby. I can’t excuse the method of delivery though. It was always important to spend some time with an operator just to get them acclimatised to the truck. Some dealers would ring Renault UK and ask for a demonstrator. I would deliver it and unfortunately would soon realise there was no sale here and that someone wanted a spare truck for a couple of weeks. The trucks would come back dirty with boot marks all over the bunk and bumps on the corners. Genuine demonstrations could take a couple of days with the driver and were usually fleet sales.
The driver was the vital link, if he liked the truck he would report back favourably. If he was an ERF man or Volvo or Scania man, it was hard work and the truck was always a load of French rubbish. We used to carry a good supply of freebies with us such as tee shirts and caps and if there was a chance of a fleet sale, maybe even a jacket or two or a fancy overnight bag.
Dave Hollinghurst was a great salesman. He won salesman of the year twice until Renault realised he was only making about a hundred quid on each sale, but a lot of the Renaults sold in the north west went through Dave. Before I worked for Renault I was a driver for Eddie Smith from Chapel en le Frith. I drove an F88 out of the Buxton Quarries and pulled a tipper trailer to Belgium with pig iron. I arrived back from Antwerp one Friday to find Eddie had bought a brand new TR280. He’d driven it for week in the UK a hated it. We swopped over and I drove the TR280 for the next 12 months whilst Eddie put up with the Volvo. He told me he preferred it but I knew better. Another Chapel operator was Dave Laidlaw. He had a TF 231 tractor unit stretched to a 16 tonne rigid with about 5 swop bodies. Poor old 'Olly nearly got the sack as the whole deal only earned Renault about 10 bob. Eddie went bump eventually but not because of the Renault. I dropped lucky as I returned the TR to Manchester, Peter Morgan offered me the vacant job as Demo driver. I spent two weeks in the workshop and another two weeks in the technical workshop before going out with the sales team to learn the ropes.
I enjoyed my two years at Renault. The staff were dedicated and hard working. The technical team listened to the salesmen and the demo drivers and that’s why the newer models proved so popular with their drivers.
CJ
Evening all, back in from the fencing, covered in mud, but its done, (and we have another pair of Buzzards on the ground. So while I was doing battle in the ditches my mind went back…
Anorak, the voice of the North Newspaper, circulated in the Pas de Calais area, Lille, Vincennes etc. Around 1963 they engaged Phillip Charbonneaux to design them a hospitality/exhibition unit that could be used at events, and on the seafronts to promote their newspaper. The chassis used was a Berliet TRX10, fitted with the Berliet 6cyl “Magic”, (MAN combustion design), 5speed, and coupled to a Fruehauf single axle trailer.
The cab was a modified Pelpel Bernard “Television”, but the trailer bodywork was built in Rouen by the coachbuilder Le “Barsteward”. ( if you get my drift). They employed some ex Pelpel (Rennes) people, and created “styling” exercises. Some more elegant than others! In operation the side folded out, and the entire roof lifted off to 90degrees, less the "cockpit/control tower, which stayed in place so that the “big cheese” could asses the crowd, and what was needed to maximise the “pull” of whatever act was performing. Visually a totally arresting and bizarre sight!
The entire outfit was parked up, in the La Voix du Nord warehouse 1989. Then she just sat there, unloved, until 2012. Then I believe La Voix was contacted by some enthusiasts who had learned of her existance. I believe that ownership, or some conditions regarding the ongoing maintenance of the Charbonneaux creation remain in force to ensure her “good health”. But during 2012 she appeared at a number of French shows, many hundreds of kilometres apart.
The only, “Le Barsteward” creation that I have personally seen was a similar TRX Berliet operated by Pathe-Marconi in Reims, again as an hospitality, VIP suite. You know Charbonneaux was the most remarkable designer, from TVs, to lorries, coaches, and motor cars for Renault, plus these “objets d`art”. Le Barsteward did a nice line, (bread and butter work), in Peugeot/Citroen based mobile shops as well!
The comments regarding Demonstrators strike a chord with me personally. When I was working in the UK I saw countless hours of wasted time, effort, and money thrown away by vehicle manufacturers and their Dealers on Demonstrations. Mainly to operators who were totally non credit worthy, had no real intention of purchasing, were “pals” of the salesman, or simply had no money!
Big Dorris sums it up perfectly, unless the man driving the demonstrator wants to get the best from it, and has been shown, (and however experienced the man actually is, he needs to “learn” how to drive another type of vehicle, to get the best from it) …well it will not work, and the money would be better spent in a different direction.
Fleet Seeds, long term demonstrators, with the option to purchase, or short term demonstrators, have to be managed ruthlessly, feed back is vital, and on a regular short term basis. If the fuel consumption is silly…well you know, either the drivers do not want it, and are doing everything to make it fail, or the operator is a liar, and just wants an easy freebie earner. So you challenge them, the answer will come quickly, and either the situation is rectified, or it all collapses…in which case you should not have been there anyway!
Its really down to managerial decisions, know your market, know your target customers, know their requirements, and know your salesmen…they can only see the sale, not whether they are going to have their" leg lifted". And know what sort of deal you will consider supplying your vehicles to that customer! (and if he is worth dealing with anyway)!!
Only then consider the best strategy to get your vehicle “in”, and a pound to a pinch of whatsit, you do not need to commit to the “loan” of a demonstrator!! Far better to conduct organised demonstrations with a beautifully turned out, loaded, (securely), vehicle. With your own driver, who was skilled in showing the vehicles best points, (and hiding any not so good). Surprisingly true, but in all the years that I worked within, and oversaw the retail side of the lorry business in Europe and the US,I saw more success from "managed, loaded demonstrations, in terms of conquest sales, than from demonstrations where the operator had the vehicle operationally under his sole control.
But there again as a young man I had my leg lifted on more than one occasion with demonstrations!! Oh the memories!
Long day, and Ive a new irregation boom coming tommorow, so great excitement… so I`ll away to a large Bollinger, and remember “demonstrators”. Cheerio for now.
More good stuff, Monsieur Saviem. You negotiated the swear filter’s intransigence with the coachbuilder’s name with notable élan, if I might say! That hospitality vehicle looks fabulous- I wonder if the mechanism still works?
neversweat1:
10
Steve
Evening all, steve, you have a good selection of photographs!! Now if I can just “flesh out” these two,
The first one is a Saviem PS30, the lorry that you never got in the UK, and the last “real” Saviem, (although the Translittorol of Boulogne sur Mer, colour scheme is a tad worn), part of the UKs TDG Group foray into France. R6, 11litre MAN power, Saviem GV350 10 speed synchro box, (with St Nazaire built Mr Fuller 12speed, plus crawler option), and the 1332 Saviem axle. 6.2tonnes ready to go, at 38tonnes gtw. And what a goer, the gearing was spot on for the torque,and the economy was outstanding. Ive “raved” about this lorry in previous posts, so I will not repeat myself, but it really was a winner…sadly killed by the merger/takeover. The last premium tractor badged as a Saviem being the PX30, really a V8 Berliet in different clothes!
The second image is the RT&B TR305 Fleet seed into FB Atkins at Derby. The man behind the wheel being AG (Tony) Neath, who worked in Fleet Sales for RT&B, and who was totally responsible for the Atkins family taking Renault . Ken, Arthur, and Ian I think ran Britains largest Renault tractor fleet, but not TR305s, the bulk being the lighter 290s with the ultra economic 06 23 45 engine. LOY 469V , Findern Jester carried a new livery style for Atkins, with a black botom half to the cab…how do I know that? Well I still have a photograph of the outfit in the centre of “old” Findern, made into a glass paperweight…sad is`nt it!
Cheerio for now.
Evening al, steve, you are at it again! Rollands from Grasse, GB, note the new Bseries grille, cost nearly 1million pounds to manufacture enough of them to cover the 6month gap, before we became Renault! Just plain crazy!
Number 21, a TR280 19tonner, on the patch of dirt, that was part of the new test ring at Saint Priest, (you can just see the top of the assembly hall in the background), I can feel the sun even looking at the photograph. The Trilex wheels would suggest that the photo was about 1970, when the KB24 cab broke cover.
My favourite photograph of a TR, was of Ian Pollocks, (Pollocks of Musselburgh) TR 305, in their magnificent livery, coupled to a tandem axle flat, loaded with Whisky Barrels, and covered by the most magnificent red sheeting and roping job!!! I had my copy “blown up”, and framed. It was on my office wall in Venissieux, Marseliies, Suresnes, Milan, Allentown, and Dallas…and the comments it drew…all of which were complimentary, no one could believe that you could carry such a load safely!!
Long day cutting sileage, (first cut in 2013), and its good grass, so perhaps will write a little about the transition , and traumas in becoming Renault tommorow…was it the right decision??
Away to a nice chicken salad, and refreshing Bollinger, cheerio for now.
