Juddian:
I rocked an MAN/arsetronic, well i tried to for a few minutes, when stuck in half an inch of snow on a flat road , the gearbox overheated and i had to shut down till it cooled enough to work again, luckily that standing time melted enough snow to let me move, the same lorry the box overheated coming out of that london one afternoon, kwality.
Ironically, the week following i was out in my then usual rented 2543 manual Axor 3 axle tractor, did two drops Telford and Wolverhampton, 6" of snow in each yard, both on inclines, the bloody lorry ■■■■■■ itsen laughing at the snow, just dug in and refused to bog down.
Do i miss manual, yes passionately, but the job has been dumbed down to barrel scraping level on so many levels now.
I also miss windows in the back of the cab, and engines with instant low rev torque.
Auto braking now, next thing will be the lorry controlling the distance to the vehicle in front even without cruise being used (though this has to come because the half wits can’t act sharp), next they’ll come up with a way of the lorry interfering with the steering, that will be my line in the sand and i shall pack it in if there isn’t a vehicle without this pointless bit of progress available, but thats easy for me to say cos i only have 4 years to go and i’m getting my last new lorry soon.
Luckily you may just retire before the steering you mention ,DAF already have a LF with a steering rack like a car and wish bones …Sp steering will be greatly improved ,and personally just like in cars ,it would then become electric power steering,and then ecus can control it …So the nightmare scenario probably isn’t that far away …Stop Start on the LF isn’t that far away
toonsy:
I have seen people just drive an auto and treat the throttle like some form of go button where there is no medium between no throttle and flat out. I try to explain (using iShift because that’s what we have) that if you alter your approach and lift off between gear changes they’ll often change gear quicker and there won’t be the skipping up or down.
^^ This.
Sidevalve:
Not necessarily; our fleet are all auto now, and we do exclusively farm work; and I’m talking dairy farms here where you’ve got slurry which has a lower co-efficient of friction than sheet ice. Yes we do get stuck occasionally, but rarely anything that you wouldn’t be equally stuck in with a manual.
Yep did a lot of farm, forest and building site work, between my normal type of work and had no more of a problem than I’d have with a manual and I’ve also driven through some of the pretty hilly terrain in the snow without losing traction.
nomiS36:
With the ishift as the possible exception if you drove a manual truck on test and changed gear exactly the same as all the rest I’m convinced you’d fail for incorrect use of gears or something similar.
Like manuals there are good and bad boxes, Renault B16 anybody? but it seems Scania have caught up with Volvo with their new gearbox, I quite often drive an Actros and that isn’t too bad and DAF and Iveco are now using a new ZF box, not tried it, but reports say it’s better than its predecessor and as tonnsy said throttle control can make a difference to how the box behaves.
However I have no problem with people who want to have a manual, if you’re lucky enough to have a boss that’ll buy one for you that’s great, but saying that an auto won’t operate in anything but proper roads is just simply not true and seems to be an excuse to try and justify manual.
Carryfast:
A) I know I’ve never driven a modern auto truck.However I also know that I’d be reasonably happy enough with an I shift based on just what I know about it but it would still be set to manual select mode for my ‘preference’.
I doubt any sane person would drive an Ishift constantly in manual, especially if they got shown how to get the best from it.
Carryfast:
B) I wasn’t referring to you personally.
So why put it in a reply to my post?
Carryfast:
C) I was referring to the situation of manufacturers refusing to offer a manual option,let alone manufacturers and legislators ruling out the constant mesh Fuller option in Euroland,in addition to numerous comments generally from auto box fans enthusiastically supporting the removal of that choice.
You can still specify manual gearbox, just read nomiS36 post where he’s getting a MAN with a manual, I drove a 2016 Daf XF with a manual box a few weeks ago, it was specifically put in for the driver who then left the company
Carryfast:
When ironically,if anything,there is a road safety case to be made for actually removing the full auto option and arguably even synchro manuals,for the reasons I’ve provided.IE a decent manual constant mesh box more effectively enforces an early and accurate and thereby safe braking regime during the approach to hazards.Together with,maybe less so,manual select mode autos ( semi auto ).
Seriously, maybe decent drivers know their vehicles and how to approach a hazard and you really need to actually drive and auto before you can talk about the best mode to use to approach a hazard in one.
A ) So all semi autos were designed by mad people for mad people.Or anyone who changes a torque converter full auto to semi auto using manual actuation and valving is also mad by your logic.
B ) You were referring to ‘people’ in your post not yourself specifically and that’s how I replied on that basis.
C) Yes there are still manual options out there.But there are other cases where manufacturers don’t offer the option or charge a punitive premium for the privilege.Nor do they nor can they offer the constant mesh manual Fuller option.
As for the road safety issue I was obviously referring to the situation in which a certain type of dumb driver will take full advantage of the dumbed down brake and go possibilities which full auto by its definition provides them with.By braking late because they don’t need to worry about getting the right gear at the right time at the right road speed in the right place.
Carryfast:
A) I know I’ve never driven a modern auto truck.However I also know that I’d be reasonably happy enough with an I shift based on just what I know about it but it would still be set to manual select mode for my ‘preference’.
I doubt any sane person would drive an Ishift constantly in manual, especially if they got shown how to get the best from it.
Carryfast:
A ) So all semi autos were designed by mad people for mad people.Or anyone who changes a torque converter full auto to semi auto using manual actuation and valving is also mad by your logic.
No I was referring to Ishift, hence I used the word Ishift and didn’t use the words auto box or automatic gearbox or AMT or torque converter.
muckles:
No I was referring to Ishift, hence I used the word Ishift and didn’t use the words auto box or automatic gearbox or AMT or torque converter.
I’m sure that I shift is an AMT type of box with a manual gear selection facility.So what’s the big difference,if left in that manual select mode,v a semi auto/manually selected torque converter type auto in that regard.
Once you get your head around an auto doesn’t mean jump in, select d, press pedal and that’s it, it’ll all become a lot better, I’m usually in an Ishift, but spent enough time in zf equipped trucks!
You need to learn what they can and can’t do and how to fully operate them, then adapt so you and the truck are working together. I actually believe it’s harder to get the best out of / understand an auto over a manual, with a manual it’s obvious! An auto takes time and an open mind
I drove a truck up a hill for someone at the beginning of the year, he’d come to a stop halfway up, not having ago at the bloke or trying to make out I’m a driving god, just that the truck was capable of getting up the hill without stopping and once stopped, capable of setting off again. I drive it regularly, might have been his 1st time and he might run rings round me backing onto a bay!
stevieboy308:
Once you get your head around an auto doesn’t mean jump in, select d, press pedal and that’s it, it’ll all become a lot better, I’m usually in an Ishift, but spent enough time in zf equipped trucks!
You need to learn what they can and can’t do and how to fully operate them, then adapt so you and the truck are working together. I actually believe it’s harder to get the best out of / understand an auto over a manual, with a manual it’s obvious! An auto takes time and an open mind
I drove a truck up a hill for someone at the beginning of the year, he’d come to a stop halfway up, not having ago at the bloke or trying to make out I’m a driving god, just that the truck was capable of getting up the hill without stopping and once stopped, capable of setting off again. I drive it regularly, might have been his 1st time and he might run rings round me backing onto a bay!
This entirely. Autos need to be learnt and drivers need to stop thinking of throttle as stop/go pedal with two positions. All that’s changed its now you have so all the control from the clutch on the throttle, learn to use throttle delicately and you’ve got it sussed
switchlogic:
This entirely. Autos need to be learnt and drivers need to stop thinking of throttle as stop/go pedal with two positions. All that’s changed its now you have so all the control from the clutch on the throttle, learn to use throttle delicately and you’ve got it sussed
Nothing’s changed in the case of shunting in that drivers still needed to control the throttle inputs just the same in the case of using a manually controlled clutch.The difference was also having the superior manual control of being able to balance throttle inputs with clutch inputs which autos obviously can’t provide.Which is a flaw not a benefit.
While out on the road the things are actually designed for the type of driver who just wants to brake and go on the approach to and through hazards,roundabouts,corners etc.
IE autos are designed to remove the essential skill of timing the braking points,gear selection points and road and engine speed matching on the approach.With it being the first two of those which creates a road safety hazard v a decent manual box in the hands of an equally decent driver.Which leaves the question why would we want to put 44t trucks in the hands of drivers who are unable to make a proper approach,using a proper constant mesh box,at least in terms of braking points and gear selection.Although ironically might as well let the computer get on with sorting out the engine speed matching in either case.With the best of all worlds technology of now being able to make fool proof manual downshifts,on a constant mesh box,while under braking in that regard.IE 18 speed manual Fuller,with auto engine speed matching on the downshifts,would be the way to go.
muckles:
No I was referring to Ishift, hence I used the word Ishift and didn’t use the words auto box or automatic gearbox or AMT or torque converter.
I’m sure that I shift is an AMT type of box with a manual gear selection facility.So what’s the big difference,if left in that manual select mode,v a semi auto/manually selected torque converter type auto in that regard.
Right I’ll try and make it simple for you, Ishift is an AMT box made by Volvo and is the benchmark for others manufactures, it’s not the generic name for all AMT gearboxes. If I was referring to all AMT boxes I would have said AMT or Auto box or something that most normal people would have understood to mean all AMT boxes, not one from a particular manufacturer.
To be honest you writing about AMT boxes in trucks, that’s all of them as I’ve used the generic term, is like the Pope talking about contraception, except I’d imagine the Pope has got Jiggy with more women than you’ve driven modern AMT equipped trucks.
muckles:
Right I’ll try and make it simple for you, Ishift is an AMT box made by Volvo and is the benchmark for others manufactures, it’s not the generic name for all AMT gearboxes. If I was referring to all AMT boxes I would have said AMT or Auto box or something that most normal people would have understood to mean all AMT boxes, not one from a particular manufacturer.
I’ll make it simple for you.What’s the bleedin difference between using an I shift in manual select mode v any other type of auto box using manual select mode and what makes that supposedly ‘insane’.Bearing in mind that its designers have obviously chosen to provide this ‘bench mark’ transmission with a manual select facility.Let alone semi auto types which delete the auto select facility altogether.
Which was my point.IE pandering to the type of driver who just wants to drive a heavy truck on the basis of brake and go and,as a result,not being,nor needing to be,bothered about the finer points of the when and where and the timing of the braking points.
muckles:
Right I’ll try and make it simple for you, Ishift is an AMT box made by Volvo and is the benchmark for others manufactures, it’s not the generic name for all AMT gearboxes. If I was referring to all AMT boxes I would have said AMT or Auto box or something that most normal people would have understood to mean all AMT boxes, not one from a particular manufacturer.
I’ll make it simple for you.What’s the bleedin difference between using an I shift in manual select mode v any other type of auto box using manual select mode and what makes that supposedly ‘insane’.Bearing in mind that its designers have obviously chosen to provide this ‘bench mark’ transmission with a manual select facility.Let alone semi auto types which delete the auto select facility altogether.
Which was my point.IE pandering to the type of driver who just wants to drive a heavy truck on the basis of brake and go and,as a result,not being,nor needing to be,bothered about the finer points of the when and where and the timing of the braking points.
The main difference is clutch control.
The insane thing is using it I manual mode when even the worst auto will work perfectly fine 90% of the time
switchlogic:
This entirely. Autos need to be learnt and drivers need to stop thinking of throttle as stop/go pedal with two positions. All that’s changed its now you have so all the control from the clutch on the throttle, learn to use throttle delicately and you’ve got it sussed
Nothing’s changed in the case of shunting in that drivers still needed to control the throttle inputs just the same in the case of using a manually controlled clutch.The difference was also having the superior manual control of being able to balance throttle inputs with clutch inputs which autos obviously can’t provide.Which is a flaw not a benefit.
While out on the road the things are actually designed for the type of driver who just wants to brake and go on the approach to and through hazards,roundabouts,corners etc.
IE autos are designed to remove the essential skill of timing the braking points,gear selection points and road and engine speed matching on the approach.With it being the first two of those which creates a road safety hazard v a decent manual box in the hands of an equally decent driver.Which leaves the question why would we want to put 44t trucks in the hands of drivers who are unable to make a proper approach,using a proper constant mesh box,at least in terms of braking points and gear selection.Although ironically might as well let the computer get on with sorting out the engine speed matching in either case.With the best of all worlds technology of now being able to make fool proof manual downshifts,on a constant mesh box,while under braking in that regard.IE 18 speed manual Fuller,with auto engine speed matching on the downshifts,would be the way to go.
muckles:
Right I’ll try and make it simple for you, Ishift is an AMT box made by Volvo and is the benchmark for others manufactures, it’s not the generic name for all AMT gearboxes. If I was referring to all AMT boxes I would have said AMT or Auto box or something that most normal people would have understood to mean all AMT boxes, not one from a particular manufacturer.
I’ll make it simple for you.What’s the bleedin difference between using an I shift in manual select mode v any other type of auto box using manual select mode and what makes that supposedly ‘insane’.Bearing in mind that its designers have obviously chosen to provide this ‘bench mark’ transmission with a manual select facility.Let alone semi auto types which delete the auto select facility altogether.
Ok what’s the difference? The difference is that the gearbox is so good at what it does, only a bloody minded arrogant old fool would want to use the manual mode all the time after driving one for a few hours, but then you’ve never driven one, however other AMT’s maybe require more manual intervention.
Why has it got a manual option? Because there maybe some point where a manual option is required, nobody has said that you must keep it in Auto all the time, but there is no need or point to keep it in manual all the time, in over 5 years of driving one I probably used manual a couple of times and one of those was to find out what it was like.
Please can you tell me which of the modern European AMT heavy truck boxes they have turned the Auto mode off and just left it running on manual?
Like I said the Pope has more experience of ■■■ than you have of a modern AMT gearboxes.
stevieboy308:
The main difference is clutch control.
The insane thing is using it I manual mode when even the worst auto will work perfectly fine 90% of the time
What ‘clutch control’ when we’re discussing just manual gear selection of an auto box which obviously still means automatic clutch control.As for human v robot clutch control the jury is still very much out.In either case I’d rather not be sharing the roads with muppets driving heavy trucks who are driving on the mantra of brake and go and who can’t/won’t control a manual clutch.
muckles:
Please can you tell me which of the modern European AMT heavy truck boxes they have turned the Auto mode off and just left it running on manual?
I’d guessed that you’d have realised that was my point.IE the road safety question,in pandering to the habits of ‘drivers’,who’s idea of a skilled approach to hazards and obstacles is brake and go with the definition of brake meaning as late as possible with brake temperatures and entry speeds to match.
muckles:
Please can you tell me which of the modern European AMT heavy truck boxes they have turned the Auto mode off and just left it running on manual?
I’d guessed that you’d have realised that was my point.IE the road safety question,in pandering to the habits of ‘drivers’,who’s idea of a skilled approach to hazards and obstacles is brake and go with the definition of brake meaning as late as possible with brake temperatures and entry speeds to match.
In other words you were spouting more guff, you knew nothing about.
, the gearbox overheated and i had to shut down till it cooled enough to work again, luckily that standing time melted enough snow to let me move, the same lorry the box overheated coming out of that london one afternoon, kwality.
but since you end up sitting in traffic half the time I’d go with an auto
