Carryfast:
It’s more a case of people who like driving a decent manual box ( Fuller for example ) are happy with a situation of freedom of choice IE if you prefer to drive an auto that’s fine.While the auto box crusaders are all about removal of that freedom of choice and forcing everyone else to accept their preference for an auto.As we’re seeing across the automotive spectrum from cars to trucks.
A) You’ve never driven any truck with any sort of modern Auto Box, so how do you know you’d prefer a Fuller box to the Ishift or the latest offering from Scania?
B) I’ve never said that manuals should be replaced or drivers should no longer use them, I’ve just expressed my opinion from my experience of both manuals and auto’s, and although it’s nice to get a manual from time to time, I’d prefer an auto box for everyday driving.
C) Unless you’re buying your own truck the choice of which gearbox it’s comes with isn’t normally yours, it’s down to the person buying the truck, it’s got bugger all to do with some lack of freedom of choice, if your main criteria is to be driving a manual truck you have the freedom of choice to find an employer with those trucks or go and set-up on your own, however most of us have many other criteria for choosing a job that is more important that what type of gearbox the truck has.
A) I know I’ve never driven a modern auto truck.However I also know that I’d be reasonably happy enough with an I shift based on just what I know about it but it would still be set to manual select mode for my ‘preference’.
While I have driven Fuller equipped vehicles.Which is more or less as good as a manual box gets,including car synchro transmissions.In which case an 18 speed Fuller,with auto rev match facility,would be the definitive truck transmission ( IMHO and preference ).
B) I wasn’t referring to you personally.
C) I was referring to the situation of manufacturers refusing to offer a manual option,let alone manufacturers and legislators ruling out the constant mesh Fuller option in Euroland,in addition to numerous comments generally from auto box fans enthusiastically supporting the removal of that choice.
When ironically,if anything,there is a road safety case to be made for actually removing the full auto option and arguably even synchro manuals,for the reasons I’ve provided.IE a decent manual constant mesh box more effectively enforces an early and accurate and thereby safe braking regime during the approach to hazards.Together with,maybe less so,manual select mode autos ( semi auto ).
lancpudn:
Not many Auto boxes around when I was driving, Now crash boxes sorted the men out from the boys, you could hear a new driver or agency driver over half a mile away from the depot trying to shift gear lol.
I take it then that you were born with the gift of being able to master crash boxes then? .
There’s very few drivers since the 1960’s at least who’ve ever needed to drive a ‘crash’ ( sliding mesh ) box.
While constant mesh generally means better,lighter shift quality than synchro and the need for accurate road and engine speed matching including the need to select the correct gear and being at the right road speed for the situation as part of that.
While autos and synchro boxes obviously make it easier for the type of driver who wants to ignore those finer points of driving either resulting in at best a knackered clutch or at worse running into something and/or a roll over etc.In addition to synchro boxes,with some exceptions,generally having an inferior and heavier shift quality.
nomiS36:
That’s the key really! The trucks should be spec’d for the type of work they do. When I was on fridges cruising up and down the motorways I had no complaints about the auto merc. Thing is now I’m back on multi drop site work where I spend a lot of time on tight back roads and building sites the autos just get themselves ■■■■■■■ in knots so I have to put them in ‘manual’ therefore if I need to use manual to override the autos stupid decisions I feel I might as well have a proper manual.
…
Not being funny mate but I think that’s just you.
I do multi drops in a Merc, to sites in the back and beyond in the S.West, and farm deliveries on roads built for horses and bloody wheelbarrows and I never feel the need to overide auto on to manual.
As I said before it’s just a case of adapting.
Getting your revs right to stop it flying up and down the box.
nomiS36:
That’s the key really! The trucks should be spec’d for the type of work they do. When I was on fridges cruising up and down the motorways I had no complaints about the auto merc. Thing is now I’m back on multi drop site work where I spend a lot of time on tight back roads and building sites the autos just get themselves ■■■■■■■ in knots so I have to put them in ‘manual’ therefore if I need to use manual to override the autos stupid decisions I feel I might as well have a proper manual.
…
Not being funny mate but I think that’s just you.
I do multi drops in a Merc, to sites in the back and beyond in the S.West, and farm deliveries on roads built for horses and bloody wheelbarrows and I never feel the need to overide auto on to manual.
As I said before it’s just a case of adapting.
Getting your revs right to stop it flying up and down the box.
I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m right end of story. All I’m saying is I think as the end user we should have the choice and not be dictated to. You like your auto, I like manuals so who are the accountants and sales reps to tell us what we’re having so tough ■■■■? For me the pinnacle of gearbox technology was the 16 speed MAN comfort Shift which is what I’m supposed to be getting so I don’t care, I’ll be a happy bunny if it does actually materialise. I have driven most autos over the last 10 years so do know that MAN’s effort is hopeless whereas the ishift volvos and renaults are very good. I’ve even driven our rigid scania which is a 3 peddle auto, a good idea in theory but in practise bloody hopeless.
I don’t slag anybody off for loving their auto box, especially those that grew up mastering the manuals of yesteryear but I just wish we had the choice. All my previous employers have just said no because nobody makes them anymore which is tosh.
nomiS36:
That’s the key really! The trucks should be spec’d for the type of work they do. When I was on fridges cruising up and down the motorways I had no complaints about the auto merc. Thing is now I’m back on multi drop site work where I spend a lot of time on tight back roads and building sites the autos just get themselves ■■■■■■■ in knots so I have to put them in ‘manual’ therefore if I need to use manual to override the autos stupid decisions I feel I might as well have a proper manual.
…
Not being funny mate but I think that’s just you.
I do multi drops in a Merc, to sites in the back and beyond in the S.West, and farm deliveries on roads built for horses and bloody wheelbarrows and I never feel the need to overide auto on to manual.
As I said before it’s just a case of adapting.
Getting your revs right to stop it flying up and down the box.
I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m right end of story. All I’m saying is I think as the end user we should have the choice and not be dictated to. You like your auto, I like manuals so who are the accountants and sales reps to tell us what we’re having so tough [zb]? For me the pinnacle of gearbox technology was the 16 speed MAN comfort Shift which is what I’m supposed to be getting so I don’t care, I’ll be a happy bunny if it does actually materialise.
If I were getting an MAN I’d probably go for Comfort Shift, really liked them and not a fan of the MAN auto, but then also not a fan of the MAN, so if I had a full choice would be a different truck probably with an Auto.
The sales rep or accountant doesn’t decide, they may have a lot of influence, but It’s the person who pays for the truck that decides what you get, if you get any sort of input that’s a bonus.
Carryfast:
It’s more a case of people who like driving a decent manual box ( Fuller for example ) are happy with a situation of freedom of choice IE if you prefer to drive an auto that’s fine.While the auto box crusaders are all about removal of that freedom of choice and forcing everyone else to accept their preference for an auto.As we’re seeing across the automotive spectrum from cars to trucks.
A) You’ve never driven any truck with any sort of modern Auto Box, so how do you know you’d prefer a Fuller box to the Ishift or the latest offering from Scania?
B) I’ve never said that manuals should be replaced or drivers should no longer use them, I’ve just expressed my opinion from my experience of both manuals and auto’s, and although it’s nice to get a manual from time to time, I’d prefer an auto box for everyday driving.
C) Unless you’re buying your own truck the choice of which gearbox it’s comes with isn’t normally yours, it’s down to the person buying the truck, it’s got bugger all to do with some lack of freedom of choice, if your main criteria is to be driving a manual truck you have the freedom of choice to find an employer with those trucks or go and set-up on your own, however most of us have many other criteria for choosing a job that is more important that what type of gearbox the truck has.
A) I know I’ve never driven a modern auto truck.However I also know that I’d be reasonably happy enough with an I shift based on just what I know about it but it would still be set to manual select mode for my ‘preference’.
I doubt any sane person would drive an Ishift constantly in manual, especially if they got shown how to get the best from it.
Carryfast:
B) I wasn’t referring to you personally.
So why put it in a reply to my post?
Carryfast:
C) I was referring to the situation of manufacturers refusing to offer a manual option,let alone manufacturers and legislators ruling out the constant mesh Fuller option in Euroland,in addition to numerous comments generally from auto box fans enthusiastically supporting the removal of that choice.
You can still specify manual gearbox, just read nomiS36 post where he’s getting a MAN with a manual, I drove a 2016 Daf XF with a manual box a few weeks ago, it was specifically put in for the driver who then left the company
Carryfast:
When ironically,if anything,there is a road safety case to be made for actually removing the full auto option and arguably even synchro manuals,for the reasons I’ve provided.IE a decent manual constant mesh box more effectively enforces an early and accurate and thereby safe braking regime during the approach to hazards.Together with,maybe less so,manual select mode autos ( semi auto ).
Seriously, maybe decent drivers know their vehicles and how to approach a hazard and you really need to actually drive and auto before you can talk about the best mode to use to approach a hazard in one.
muckles:
The sales rep or accountant doesn’t decide, they may have a lot of influence, but It’s the person who pays for the truck that decides what you get, if you get any sort of input that’s a bonus.
Tried to get a manual specced but Volvo’s manuals are not up to the torque rating of my current FH, it was double clutch i shift only. The 750 version has torque limited in the first 6 gears so probably even the current i shift is just about at its limit…
I just prefer mechanical engineering over electronic ‘engineering’.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a total Luddite! I wouldn’t want to go back to analogue tachographs, digital is way better and I like cruise control, air con and night heaters!
I just feel automating truck gearboxes was a step into the look what we can do too far for me.
I rocked an MAN/arsetronic, well i tried to for a few minutes, when stuck in half an inch of snow on a flat road , the gearbox overheated and i had to shut down till it cooled enough to work again, luckily that standing time melted enough snow to let me move, the same lorry the box overheated coming out of that london one afternoon, kwality.
Ironically, the week following i was out in my then usual rented 2543 manual Axor 3 axle tractor, did two drops Telford and Wolverhampton, 6" of snow in each yard, both on inclines, the bloody lorry ■■■■■■ itsen laughing at the snow, just dug in and refused to bog down.
Do i miss manual, yes passionately, but the job has been dumbed down to barrel scraping level on so many levels now.
I also miss windows in the back of the cab, and engines with instant low rev torque.
Auto braking now, next thing will be the lorry controlling the distance to the vehicle in front even without cruise being used (though this has to come because the half wits can’t act sharp), next they’ll come up with a way of the lorry interfering with the steering, that will be my line in the sand and i shall pack it in if there isn’t a vehicle without this pointless bit of progress available, but thats easy for me to say cos i only have 4 years to go and i’m getting my last new lorry soon.
So he can snap his chain and burst your rad ,which is why I carry a nylon tow rope on the spare wheel !
I’m delivering to groundwork crews,so they have all the kit.
Point is because of these retarded gearboxes a bit of mud on a sloping stretch of tarmac is enough to see you ‘stuck’. I’ve been dragged off sites by poxy little dump trucks, a 360 would have been total over kill! Mind you, I’ve also been up to the axles where only a 360 had a chance of freeing me [emoji23]
Not necessarily; our fleet are all auto now, and we do exclusively farm work; and I’m talking dairy farms here where you’ve got slurry which has a lower co-efficient of friction than sheet ice. Yes we do get stuck occasionally, but rarely anything that you wouldn’t be equally stuck in with a manual.
I have seen people just drive an auto and treat the throttle like some form of go button where there is no medium between no throttle and flat out. I try to explain (using iShift because that’s what we have) that if you alter your approach and lift off between gear changes they’ll often change gear quicker and there won’t be the skipping up or down.
With the ishift as the possible exception if you drove a manual truck on test and changed gear exactly the same as all the rest I’m convinced you’d fail for incorrect use of gears or something similar.
Sidevalve:
Not necessarily; our fleet are all auto now, and we do exclusively farm work; and I’m talking dairy farms here where you’ve got slurry which has a lower co-efficient of friction than sheet ice. Yes we do get stuck occasionally, but rarely anything that you wouldn’t be equally stuck in with a manual.
This. I’ve driven ishifts on landfills as well as manuals and to be completely honest they get stuck no more or less than the manual. I dare say a certain someone will be along shortly to tell me I’m all wrong
, the gearbox overheated and i had to shut down till it cooled enough to work again, luckily that standing time melted enough snow to let me move, the same lorry the box overheated coming out of that london one afternoon, kwality.