I came across them but my point is this.Yoy approach a roundabout,youre looking to see whats going on,you make the decision to accelerate into the roundabout once you decided its safe and correct,ok.
Now,here comes the problem,each gear has its own range of speed,so gear 2 low might be ,say,15 to 16 mph,gear 2 mid might be 17 to 19 mph,gear 2 high might be 20 to 22mph,for instance,but if you are outside of these ranges,then you get it crunchi g,ok,if you have that skill to judge the exact gear for the exact speed,fair enough,but not everyone can do it ,and those of you that can,its not nice to look down at those of us that cant.There is always somebody else with more skill at anything we apply ourselves to
Sploom:
I came across them but my point is this.Yoy approach a roundabout,youre looking to see whats going on,you make the decision to accelerate into the roundabout once you decided its safe and correct,ok.
Now,here comes the problem,each gear has its own range of speed,so gear 2 low might be ,say,15 to 16 mph,gear 2 mid might be 17 to 19 mph,gear 2 high might be 20 to 22mph,for instance,but if you are outside of these ranges,then you get it crunchi g,ok,if you have that skill to judge the exact gear for the exact speed,fair enough,but not everyone can do it ,and those of you that can,its not nice to look down at those of us that cant.There is always somebody else with more skill at anything we apply ourselves to
It’s all about “feel” and experience. It’s nothing to be ashamed of if you haven’t got it and you never develop it, but that ability is what separates lorry drivers from car drivers with a HGV licence.
Don’t beat yourself up over it.
More put downs then,like most of your posts
Sploom:
I came across them but my point is this.Yoy approach a roundabout,youre looking to see whats going on,you make the decision to accelerate into the roundabout once you decided its safe and correct,ok.
Now,here comes the problem,each gear has its own range of speed,so gear 2 low might be ,say,15 to 16 mph,gear 2 mid might be 17 to 19 mph,gear 2 high might be 20 to 22mph,for instance,but if you are outside of these ranges,then you get it crunchi g,ok,if you have that skill to judge the exact gear for the exact speed,fair enough,but not everyone can do it ,and those of you that can,its not nice to look down at those of us that cant.There is always somebody else with more skill at anything we apply ourselves to
Oh ffs man 
…nobody is ‘looking down on you’.
I ain’t an instructor I’m a driver so I can’t explain what you want to know.
As said, it’s all about the ‘feel’, you get that feel through experience, so you either know or you dont…simple.
I was taught how to use a Fuller box on a brand new 2800 DAF.
I was 21, just passed my test and this owner driver I had known all my life, said in the pub, come with me tomorrow on a 300 mile round trip,.we’ll see how you do, if you do ok you can take my truck for a week while I’m on holiday,…if you are rubbish you can’t.!.
I had learned on a Magirius Deutz with another owner driver mate, which had a much easier box as far as I recall…could even have been syncro.
Never been short of confidence and liked the idea of driving a brand new DAF at 21 
…, so I said …Deal, great bring it on. (Cocky little ■■■■ er 
)
Set off made a total ■■■■ up of it all for first couple of hours, but got better as day went on,.and had it mastered by time we got back.
Did the 2weeks hol relief, and gained a rep around the town with other owner drivers going on hols,.until.I got a full time job…by that time well experienced despite my age…I often got asked if I was ‘‘old enough to drive these things’’…in fact I still do in fact.
.(ok the last bit is a lie 
)
Sploom:
I came across them but my point is this.Yoy approach a roundabout,youre looking to see whats going on,you make the decision to accelerate into the roundabout once you decided its safe and correct,ok.
Now,here comes the problem,each gear has its own range of speed,so gear 2 low might be ,say,15 to 16 mph,gear 2 mid might be 17 to 19 mph,gear 2 high might be 20 to 22mph,for instance,but if you are outside of these ranges,then you get it crunchi g,ok,if you have that skill to judge the exact gear for the exact speed,fair enough,but not everyone can do it ,and those of you that can,its not nice to look down at those of us that cant.There is always somebody else with more skill at anything we apply ourselves to
The same sort of skill is required in selection of which gear, in any 12, 14 or 16 speed syncromesh manual gearbox. The difference with a syncro being that it allows almost any gear to be selected at almost any speed, very little skill required.
In contrast, with a non-syncro 'box, such as Eaton Fuller/RoadRanger, Spicer or Mack is that they also need skill in the physical selection. That competence can be aquired by most half decent truck drivers, with practice and experience. Don’t try to force a selection or wrestle the lever, the box will let you know when you’re trying to engage a particular gear at the wrong revs for the road speed. Initially change gears progressively without using the clutch, lightly guiding the gear lever to the next ratio. It will almost select the gear itself. Once familiar with the change points, skip shifting can be accomplished.
Never fight or try to force the gearlever, it’ll win every time.
^^^^^^^
What HE says.
That’s the problem I had with the twin splitter and getting the revs right , and the comment of the shoulder pain if the gear wasn’t going in, that’s painful on a long shift.
I Did an agency run to London in one , absolute nightmare,broke something in the gearbox and a mechanic came up to fix it.
It was a delivery of carpets to a carpet shop, the old truck was belching out black smoke and I saw young ladies in car passenger seats waving their faces in disgust.
A part had sheared off by constant crunching.
Sploom:
More put downs then,like most of your posts
Oh dear, are you offended Princess? Don’t worry though, I’m sure there is a safe space nearby.
It wasn’t intended as a put down, however I don’t really care which way you take it. It was the simple truth.
Star down under.:
Sploom:
I came across them but my point is this.Yoy approach a roundabout,youre looking to see whats going on,you make the decision to accelerate into the roundabout once you decided its safe and correct,ok.
Now,here comes the problem,each gear has its own range of speed,so gear 2 low might be ,say,15 to 16 mph,gear 2 mid might be 17 to 19 mph,gear 2 high might be 20 to 22mph,for instance,but if you are outside of these ranges,then you get it crunchi g,ok,if you have that skill to judge the exact gear for the exact speed,fair enough,but not everyone can do it ,and those of you that can,its not nice to look down at those of us that cant.There is always somebody else with more skill at anything we apply ourselves to
The same sort of skill is required in selection of which gear, in any 12, 14 or 16 speed syncromesh manual gearbox. The difference with a syncro being that it allows almost any gear to be selected at almost any speed, very little skill required.
In contrast, with a non-syncro 'box, such as Eaton Fuller/RoadRanger, Spicer or Mack is that they also need skill in the physical selection. That competence can be aquired by most half decent truck drivers, with practice and experience. Don’t try to force a selection or wrestle the lever, the box will let you know when you’re trying to engage a particular gear at the wrong revs for the road speed. Initially change gears progressively without using the clutch, lightly guiding the gear lever to the next ratio. It will almost select the gear itself. Once familiar with the change points, skip shifting can be accomplished.
Never fight or try to force the gearlever, it’ll win every time.[/quote.
The problem I had with them,as you approach a roundabout,youre looking whats going on,you are slowing down,there might be a car not indicating and so on,but in that split second that you decude to proceed,you have to decide ,quite accuratley which gear to go in,and its a fairly small window from which to choose,if it crunches,you try again but in that time,you slowed down some more but now Im coasting around ithe roundabout in neutral,complete disaster.I dont know about the fuller gearbox,presumably thats the same problem.
When DAF updated their 2800 to 3300, they came with a full synchro ZF box, worlds apart to a Fuller.
It was like using 2 sets of gears if you will, a standard pattern 1 2 3 4, with facility to split every one by a small 2inch long lever jobby half way down the stick
Then move the stick towards you through a ‘gate’ where the upper 5 6 7 8 gears were, again standard pattern, split every one if needed …basically an 18 speed box.
The only problem was the first 3300 models (about 1983) did not have a safety prevention function, so (if you were an incompetent idiot) you could go from 8th high box back through the gate to 1st or 2nd 
,.thus destroying the gearbox and coming to a crashing stop with no warranty for negligence and crap driving.
They then put in a prevention of this in the later model,.so if you happened to buy a second hand Y reg DAF…as I did,.you could not afford to put some incompetent balloon on it…again which I did. 
no I dont mean me either before you ask
The worst box I ever used was a Spicer, you had to be absolutely 100% precise with bringing down your revs without crunching the gears…standard fitting in Leyland Roadtrains.
Then I had a Sed Atk with an upside down 9 speed Fuller box, where you were changing gears in the opposite direction, working away from yourself right to left…it was like a Chinese puzzle to the inexperienced.
You’d be totally Donald Ducked with that Sploomy, if you can’t even work out what gear you are in on a standard…
The Boss (on the phone) …
‘‘You say you are stuck and can’t get truck moving Sploomy,.what gear are you in?’’
Sploom…
‘‘My Arco work suit and hi viz boss’’
Sploom:
Star down under.:
Sploom:
I came across them but my point is this.Yoy approach a roundabout,youre looking to see whats going on,you make the decision to accelerate into the roundabout once you decided its safe and correct,ok.
Now,here comes the problem,each gear has its own range of speed,so gear 2 low might be ,say,15 to 16 mph,gear 2 mid might be 17 to 19 mph,gear 2 high might be 20 to 22mph,for instance,but if you are outside of these ranges,then you get it crunchi g,ok,if you have that skill to judge the exact gear for the exact speed,fair enough,but not everyone can do it ,and those of you that can,its not nice to look down at those of us that cant.There is always somebody else with more skill at anything we apply ourselves toThe same sort of skill is required in selection of which gear, in any 12, 14 or 16 speed syncromesh manual gearbox. The difference with a syncro being that it allows almost any gear to be selected at almost any speed, very little skill required.
In contrast, with a non-syncro 'box, such as Eaton Fuller/RoadRanger, Spicer or Mack is that they also need skill in the physical selection. That competence can be aquired by most half decent truck drivers, with practice and experience. Don’t try to force a selection or wrestle the lever, the box will let you know when you’re trying to engage a particular gear at the wrong revs for the road speed. Initially change gears progressively without using the clutch, lightly guiding the gear lever to the next ratio. It will almost select the gear itself. Once familiar with the change points, skip shifting can be accomplished.
Never fight or try to force the gearlever, it’ll win every time.
[/quote.]
The problem I had with them,as you approach a roundabout,youre looking whats going on,you are slowing down,there might be a car not indicating and so on,but in that split second that you decude to proceed,you have to decide ,quite accuratley which gear to go in,and its a fairly small window from which to choose,if it crunches,you try again but in that time,you slowed down some more but now Im coasting around ithe roundabout in neutral,complete disaster.I dont know about the fuller gearbox,presumably thats the same problem.
Even the best instructor would have difficulty teaching someone to change gears by distance education, you need to consult a higher authority.
Here’s a uwey that might help.
youtu.be/6ysb_w-MMnY?si=8QEzhcZex0saV1Z1
robroy:
When DAF updated their 2800 to 3300, they came with a full synchro ZF box, worlds apart to a Fuller.
It was like using 2 sets of gears if you will, a standard pattern 1 2 3 4, with facility to split every one by a small 2inch long lever jobby half way down the stick
Then move the stick towards you through a ‘gate’ where the upper 5 6 7 8 gears were, again standard pattern, split every one if needed …basically an 18 speed box.The only problem was the first 3300 models (about 1983) did not have a safety prevention function, so (if you were an incompetent idiot) you could go from 8th high box back through the gate to 1st or 2nd
They then put in a prevention of this in the later model,.so if you happened to buy a second hand Y reg DAF…as I did,.you could not afford to put some incompetent balloon on it…again which I did.The worst box I ever used was a Spicer, you had to be absolutely 100% precise with bringing down your revs without crunching the gears…standard fitting in Leyland Roadtrains.
Then I had a Sed Atk with an upside down 9 speed Fuller box, where you were changing gears in the opposite direction, working away from yourself right to left…it was like a Chinese puzzle to the inexperienced.
You’d be totally Donald Ducked with that Sploomy, if you can’t even work out what gear you are in on a standard…
The Boss (on the phone) …
‘‘You say you are stuck and can’t get truck moving Sploomy,.what gear are you in?’’Sploom…
‘‘My Arco work suit and hi viz boss’’
Yes,haha,but you just reminded me,when I was on the buses,I used to drive these metroriders with a back to front gearbox,only 6 gears though
The same vehicle is in Aldrige bus museum.Ihave to go and visit that museum one day.
Stardownunder.
I noticed he was pressing the clutch down twice but in my case,nobody explained all this,they just gave me the keys and sent me on the run.I suppose I would have got the hang of it but they offered me a newer vehicle afterwards
Sploom:
Stardownunder.
I noticed he was pressing the clutch down twice but in my case,nobody explained all this,they just gave me the keys and sent me on the run.I suppose I would have got the hang of it but they offered me a newer vehicle afterwards
Known as Double de clutching …, 2 separate actions if you like, between in gear, to neutral, and back in gear, and.at same time judging (and listening) to revs to get a smooth change…if you dont you get a crunch instead.
From the days when you actually needed one or two skills to be a trucker, differing from today where you can teach a chimp (or in more evident cases a CHUMP) to drive a modern truck.
In those days the difference between driving a truck and a car was like comparing chalk with cheese, the result an abundance of car drivers, with Class 1 licences…but tbf still.a lot of good drivers about thankfuly who have never even seen a proper gearbox let alone used one.
robroy:
Sploom:
Stardownunder.
I noticed he was pressing the clutch down twice but in my case,nobody explained all this,they just gave me the keys and sent me on the run.I suppose I would have got the hang of it but they offered me a newer vehicle afterwardsKnown as Double de clutching …, 2 separate actions if you like, between in gear, to neutral, and back in gear, and.at same time judging (and listening) to revs to get a smooth change…if you dont you get a crunch instead.
From the days when you actually needed one or two skills to be a trucker, differing from today where you can teach a chimp (or in more evident cases a CHUMP) to drive a modern truck.
In those days the difference between driving a truck and a car was like comparing chalk with cheese, the result an abundance of car drivers, with Class 1 licences…but tbf still.a lot of good drivers about thankfuly who have never even seen a proper gearbox let alone used one.
Rob, modern European trucks all seem to have air assisted clutches, as opposed to Australian/American trucks. Mack may be the exception, basically being a Volvo with a normal control, Mack shed.
I’m pretty tall and I have to skew my left leg toward the centre of the cab to avoid the steering wheel at the top of the clutch pedal travel. As such, I now have a dodgy left knee, even though I’ve been clutchless changing for forty odd years. I’m more proficient at clutchless changes than using the clutch.
Eaton recommend using the clutch to save wear on some syncro component, but I have been assured by a fellow who rebuilds RoadRangers, that it’s a $2 part that he replaces as a matter of course. He’s never seen the part fail.
^^^^^
No automatics over there then?
I’ve never got why some on here pine for manual boxes.
Autos are just sooooo much easier and convenient.
Ok,.as I said the drawback is the type of ‘driver’ we now have to share the road with in many cases .because of the dumbing down…but I can live with that.
I would not go back to manuals, because I have nothing to prove anymore in using different non straightforward boxes , but mainly because of the non enthusiasm/anything for an easy life/not a great deal of interest anymore vibe I have developed over the years in the job…
You might not have anything to prove but there are those that do need to prove themselves when it comes to this.
I would rather autos too.I might even get an automatic car,next car I get
Yeah mate, we’ve got autos and the same problems, they attract “drivers” or drovers who would otherwise never get a foot in the door.
I recently drove an automated manual Volvo. I was told that drivers reported better performance if driven manually. My experience was that in manual mode, I could make it use more fuel and make more noise, but I couldn’t make it go any better.
My issues with auto/man is that they are adaptive, a PIA if running out with 100 tonne of fuel, then coming home empty.
A slight deviation from the subject. Apparently I’m not allowed to state the nationality of substandard drivers over here, carving up the job and back stabbing good, established drivers, so I’ll refer to them as martions.
The martions are only steering wheel attendants, with no loading or securing abilities, so are infesting the linehaul sector. They are notorious for not speaking or replying to Australian drivers on the UHF.
One Aussie driver called another truck three or four times without answer. Aussie number 2 chimes in with, he must be a martion. Number one said “Nah, he’s in a Kenworth.” Number two came back with “Ya can get them with automatics, now.”